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Sleep Quality & Deep Sleep

Discussion in 'Insomnia, Sleep Issues' started by jamies33, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Hey,

    I have been dealing with poor sleep quality and duration for almost 6 years. Getting in better health made an improvement ~2 years ago, and finding peat 6 months ago helped further. I feel pretty good about sleep these days.

    I have been using an alarm clock/sleep tracker hybrid app on my phone called "Sleep Cycle" (Sleep Cycle alarm clock) that was recommended by @Such_Saturation in a different thread. I like seeing graphically how I slept the night before, and I tend to agree with how it grades my sleep quality, on a percentage basis. When I wake up and feel tired, it tends to confirm for me that I had poor quality or restless sleep.

    So, this post is about how to get the maximum amount of deep sleep possible.

    My issues seem to be a lack of consistent deep sleep. I want more deep sleep. Last night the app told me I had 38% sleep quality - disturbing, considering I am health conscious.

    I'll list some factors that I control that I know affect sleep quality, but I'd love if others could chime in and help me get the sleep of my "dreams"(... :angelic:). Its my personal stance that sleep is literally THE thing in health, so getting less deep sleep than possible is aggravating to be sure.

    Some factors I account for:
    a) Avoiding caffeine later in the day (I have 4 cups of strong coffee upon waking, around 6am)
    b) Getting sunlight, especially early in the day
    c) Getting regular exercise (I lift weights 5 days/wk, mostly for muscular endurance - not overly stressful)
    d) Getting good nutrition - I supplement vitamins E, K, aspirin each morning, and I track my food intake regularly on cronometer. I get more calcium than phosphorous, ~2.5g of calcium daily. I get more copper than iron daily. I avoid PUFA, but I do eat eggs and drink milk. I eat fruit, I avoid starch. I get about 100g of protein daily. My calories are low for my size, between 2300 and 2800, and I'm losing weight, but I do not feel hungry or stressed out before bed - I REALLY doubt I need to eat more.
    e) My room is quiet and dark, except for my alarm clock, which is a very dim, red light, and is located across the room.
    f) I turn WIFI off before sleep.
    g) I use F.lux on my phone and computer screen; I don't watch TV.
    h) I usually go for a walk in the evening, I think it helps lower serotonin.
    i) I do ~5 minutes of stretching before bed, in areas that tend to get tight either from weight training or stress, like my traps, neck, chest and biceps. This makes me feel like collapsing on my pillow, its glorious.
    j) I have some sugar before bed, typically honey

    Falling asleep usually isnt an issue, nor is staying asleep through the night. The problem seems to be the amount of deep sleep; this app has validated how I feel some mornings.

    I don't snore unless its developed VERY recently; I don't wake with a dry mouth (indicating mouth breathing). I doubt sleep apnea is an issue.

    Tend to wake on my side, & I find my bed comfortable.

    That's all I can think of right now. Please post any ideas that can help with getting more deep sleep!
     
  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    How is your vitamin D level?
     
  3. Luckytype

    Luckytype Member

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    @jamies33 can you screenshot last nights sleep graph and post it along with another one for comparison?
     
  4. OP
    jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Wow, what a bullseye - I have no idea, and I live in Canada. I saw a post recently by @Janelle525 about vitamin D toxicity when losing weight, and I have historically supplemented with vitamin D, so I became worried about continuing (https://raypeatforum.com/community/attachments/capture9-jpg.8944/). You could be right on the money.

    Yes, good idea, thank you. I will attach last night's graph, and Monday night's graph (which was fairly decent ~75%).Screenshot_2018-04-12-09-45-53.jpegScreenshot_2018-04-12-09-46-20.jpeg
     
  5. Luckytype

    Luckytype Member

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    @Such_Saturation can you post a couple of your days here when you have a moment
     
  6. Luckytype

    Luckytype Member

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    IMG_3093.PNGIMG_3092.PNG These are my most recent two. I feel groggy as hell when I wake up, granted thyroid status between us is likely much different
     
  7. OP
    jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    WOW!!!!!! Teach me your ways sensei!!! Lol.

    The highest sleep quality Ive gotten so far is 83%, I remember that morning like it was yesterday... a morning for the ages. Felt incredible. Cannot fathom 90+%, wow. My average so far seems to be about 65%.
     
  8. Luckytype

    Luckytype Member

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    Honestly I dont even know what to make of it, i dont really wake up rested and on those two days woke up at 97.2 and 97.3(wed night). The tuesday with that big flat portion in deep sleep i hadnt really slept the night before so i was basically dead.

    Do you feel rested(ish)? At all when you wake up?

    As a data point ive had days where im up 4 times in a night so these are certainly best case for now
     
  9. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Here are some of the less bad ones. As you can see the score isn't really something to go by, either that or the graph shape isn't something that affects the score. But the 100% was after 4mg of cyproheptadine so I guess it kind of makes sense.

    IMG.png
     
  10. OP
    jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Not this morning, the morning when I discovered I had abysmal deep sleep.

    It's probably true not to worry about the score so much. I just want more deep sleep :dead:. Aside from getting vitamin D levels up, and whittling down to 10% bodyfat, I'm at a loss for how.
     
  11. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Are you trying to lose fat to sleep better?
     
  12. Mito

    Mito Member

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    The Fitbit sleep tracker is pretty good also. It tracks deep sleep and REM and shows a comparison to what they claim to be a typical range.
    E4582B9D-ADF9-4921-B2BB-695929A2423D.jpeg
    E9744232-BEAA-41CA-90D8-6C3B18926FB6.jpeg
     
  13. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Cypro helps. In my case, it kept me from urinating too much at night. That meant less waking up at night to pee. But after I found out what’s causing me to pee so much (my intake of a daily 7g dose of ascorbic acid continually for 5 months- a cumulative effect of it), I urinated less at night and got my sleep back. I think of Cypro as an aid to tide me over while I troubleshoot the cause of my lack of sleep. When I figure things out, I would then lay off it.

    I tried out Sleep Cycle. I needed to hear my snoring, and it didn't have that. I switched to Sleep for Android, and it has that feature. I feel more than anything knowing if I snore is a big deal. Everything else is just an algorithm which we assume makes accurate graphs of sleep quality, an assumption I don't think holds water.

    I just think that sleep quality is about sleeping uninterrupted for 7 hours. From waking up during sleep hours, and from poor breathing from snoring. You can tell how often you wake up without an app, but an app that gives you an idea of how badly you snore, that is helpful.
     
  14. OP
    jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Yes, I feel like it would help, really with a lot of things.

    I feel getting lean helps sleep quality, and sleep quality helps getting lean...

    That looks really cool!

    I like your points. I've used sleep for Android too, I loved the whale sounds lullabye :D. I do prefer the alarm on this app though. Neither sleep for Android nor girlfriend has mentioned a snore, so Im 99% sure I'm ok in that area
     
  15. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    I think at 10% I would be too hungry to even fall asleep...
     
  16. OP
    jamies33

    jamies33 Member

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    Hmm, ok, you have poked a hole in my delusion. What do you think are some optimal settings for the best sleep?
     
  17. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    I think it's a combination of being nice and tired, and the perfect balance between not eating too much or too little. I find it almost impossible to get that balance. The only time you really sleep like a king is after the alarm goes off, so probably cortisol is a great way to cheat.
     
  18. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    The best app around, bar none!:thumbsup:
     
  19. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    How does Fitbit determine that you're in deep sleep and in REM sleep? Do they base it partly on the heart rate? What other parameters are involved?
     
  20. Mito

    Mito Member

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    “Fitbit estimates your sleep stages using a combination of your movement and heart-rate patterns. When you haven’t moved for about an hour, your tracker or watch assumes that you’re asleep. Additional data—such as the length of time your movements are indicative of sleep behavior (such as rolling over, etc.)—help confirm that you’re asleep. While you’re sleeping, your device tracks the beat-to-beat changes in your heart rate, known as heart rate variability (HRV), which fluctuate as you transition between light sleep, deep sleep, and REM sleep stages. When you sync your device in the morning, we use your movement and heart rate patterns to estimate your sleep cycles from the previous night. “
     
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