Dark Circles Under Eyes

Johnny_Burger

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Jan 6, 2014
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I have been eating Peat style for around two months now. Like many people, I found Peat's work through Matt Stone. I followed his refeeding program for about 6 months after a year or so of low-carb Paleo and Crossfit workouts ( a combo that totally wrecked my body). Before low carb, vegan for about 2 years ( all sorts of veganism). I gained 50 pounds on Matt's plan, but considering how skinny on got on Paleo, it was a good thing.

Soooo, I feel better now. And I am not gaining weight on this diet. But, since day 1, I have dark circles under my eyes, which I never had, not even during my low-carb era. And, even though I have more energy, I still feel I am far from an optimal state.

Am I missing some nutrients? Am I mildly intolerant to milk and dairy? Am I drinking too much liquid? Is it the coffee? Is this a lack of calories? I am lost here.

Here's what my diet looks like :

1.5 quart of milk
1 quart of OJ
Fruits
Sugar 1/4 cup
Cheese (3/4 onces)
Eggs (3)
Steak (3 times a week)
Shrimp (2 times a week)
Oysters ( 1 a week)

Supplements :

10000 IU vitamin A
100 IU vitamin E
Aspirin 3
Vitamin K2 3
 
J

j.

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I've been Peating for almost 2 years, recently started taking thyroid. I improved on tons of things but I still have dark circles under the eyes.
 

4peatssake

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Feb 7, 2013
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Do you do endurance exercise? When did you stop the crossfit?

Ray Peat said:
Like the dark circles, a chronically plugged nostril is suggestive of an allergy, and it usually varies according to the intensity of the intestinal irritation of undigested food. Keeping notes on what you eat, you might notice increased stuffiness during the night after particular foods were eaten, though with some foods the congestion can take a couple of days to develop. Prolonged endurance exercise will usually slow the pulse because of adaptive inhibition of the thyroid. I have seen some people with the dark circles, fatigue, and other symptoms that stopped as soon as they stopped their daily running.
From Ray Peat's Brain at Danny Roddy's website

Ray has also said that dark circles are indicative of low thyroid. What are your temp and pulse like?

Overall your diet looks good but I noticed it lacked coconut oil/saturated fat and no gelatin. You may wish to consider adding those. Also you mentioned coffee but I didn't see how much you were drinking on your daily list.
 

Johnny_Burger

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I stopped Crossfit more than a year ago. I don't do any endurance exercise, just strength trAining 2 times a week. I drink 5 cops of coffee a day.

I use very little coconut oil, only for cooking. As for the gelatin, it seems to irritate my gut, and I can't get GL where I live, it is way too expensive to order online.

Btw, I am 6"1, 240 lbs. I am pretty muscular, I guess I could lose arond 20 pounds, but not really more than that.

By BT is always around 98.2 and my HR is in the low 70.
 

Wilfrid

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Nov 26, 2012
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Hi Johnny,

My question will probably seems weird to you but.... how do you react, in general, to mosquitoes bites?
 

Johnny_Burger

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Jan 6, 2014
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Yes, it's seems a bit weird, but here we go! I live in Quebec, so I get my fair share of mosquitoes bite in summer, never had any abnormal reaction.

Can I why this question?
 

Wilfrid

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Nov 26, 2012
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Though not a general rule, low blood sugar can sometimes have a strong link with how you react to allergens.
Mosquitoes bites being one of them.
I used to discuss this with Ray and he confirmed that having a low blood sugar usually goes hand to hand with strong reactions to bites, allergen in foods ect....
So I was wondering if your dark circles may have a relation with your blood sugar.
The mosquitoes bite test is one of the easiest way to get a clue on someone's blood sugar level.
A strong reaction being a good reliable indicator of low blood sugar.
 

Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
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I think gut irritation is the most likely source of your problems as
most people add a lot of new foods when they start RP style eating.
Pectin in OJ can cause serious problems if you do not have good
composition of bacteria. You can experiment with avoiding pectin
rich fruits for few days and see how things improve.
Milk can cause digestion issue but milk tolerance increases with
time. You can try changing brands. If cows were fed allergenic food
that will show up in milk. Have you tried RP's recommendation of
1 glass of milk with 2-3 TBS of sugar and some salt before bed for
good sleep? If you think lactose or other things in milk is causing problem
then you can make farmers cheese at home. This should have least amount
of problematic substances. These are low in calcium, so you have to find
a good calcium source like egg shell powder or oyster shell powder.
For some peaple egg shell powder is allergenic. Same goes for eggs.
Egg yolk is less likely to be allergenic. Old cheese are high in histamine
and store bought cheese can have allergenic enzyme or other things.
Seafood are another source of histamine problems.
Beef liver seems like a safer source of vitamin A , copper
and other essential nutrient. Many supplements are known to have
toxic and allergenic ingredients in them. You really have to try
an elimination diet to figure out the source of the problem.
RP recommends eating mostly fat and sugar after sunset as digestion
process slows down. You did not mentioned daily raw carrot/salad
or cooked bamboo shoot. These are very important for healthy liver and
thyroid . RP mentioned endoxtin as a cause of sleep problem.
He thinks it is best to eat carrot salad separate from the meal
once or twice a day. If you eat once then afternoon is a good time.
It seems like your calorie intake is bit low.
You can try loading up your liver glycogen storage
by eating sugary foods( sugar in milk, ice cream, sweet fruit, honey)
every 2/3 hours before bed.
 

Johnny_Burger

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Jan 6, 2014
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Interesting Wilfrid, I was not aware of that, I'll pay attention this summer.

Tanks Mittir for your detailed reply, that is really appreciated.

Mittir said:
I think gut irritation is the most likely source of your problems as
most people add a lot of new foods when they start RP style eating.
Pectin in OJ can cause serious problems if you do not have good
composition of bacteria. You can experiment with avoiding pectin
rich fruits for few days and see how things improve.

I don't seem to have any reaction to any kind of orange juice or fruit when I peeled them. But I could give the pectin thing a try and see how it goes.

Mittir said:
Milk can cause digestion issue but milk tolerance increases with
time. You can try changing brands. If cows were fed allergenic food
that will show up in milk. Have you tried RP's recommendation of
1 glass of milk with 2-3 TBS of sugar and some salt before bed for
good sleep?

I react very strongly to the tiniest amount of lactose. This is why I drink Lactose-Free milk. I'll try to add rehular milk in the future, but for now it is way to stressful for my body.
And I tried de glass of milk with sugar and salt, it seems to help a bit, but I still struggle to get a good night of sleep.

Mittir said:
Beef liver seems like a safer source of vitamin A , copper
and other essential nutrient

Yeah...I have to start eating liver once or twice a week. But I find it so repulsive, makes me want to throw up, litterally. I'll have to find a way to make it tolerable for my taste buds.

Mittir said:
You did not mentioned daily raw carrot/salad
or cooked bamboo shoot. These are very important for healthy liver and
thyroid .

Forgot to mention it. I eat my daily carrot, but I did not try bamboo shoots. The carrot really helps with bowel movements.

Mittir said:
It seems like your calorie intake is bit low.

Yesterday, I count my calories on fitdy, to make sure I had enough. I got to 3400. My previous day was around 2400. I wanted to see the effect of a higher calorie intake. I have to say that I feel a bit better this morning, my pulse and temperature are up. So I guess I need around 3500 calories daily to feel ok.
 

Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
Messages
2,034
It is possible to increase the palatability of liver by cutting it into very small pieces,
the smaller the better. Then soaking in salt water or milk for few hours removes the bad taste. You can also add few drops of lemon juice and let it marinate for 30 min to an hour.
Then quick frying in butter or coconut oil for a minute or two.
Drinking coffee with liver lowers iron absorption. RP does not recommend
acidic food with iron rich meal but this small amount of acid should
not be a problem. I eat small portion of liver daily( 1.5 oz).
It taste really bad if try to eat more than that. RP recommends 3-6 oz weekly.

RP mentioned a study where lactose intolerant people were drinking
half a cup of milk 3 times a day and in few weeks they were able to
digest milk without any problem. I started with quarter cup of milk
slowly increased over several month. RP mentioned that drinking
milk with meals makes it easier to digest. He mentioned that
thyroid or progesterone supplement can increase the ability to digest lactose.
Inflammation and bacterial infection lowers lactase enzyme.
 

iLoveSugar

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Sep 19, 2013
Messages
951
My dark eyes are horrendous! It, along with gut issues, are my longest known issues. My entire life, I was told to 'get more sleep'. It didn't matter if I get 8 hours or 20, my bags are always awful, and have gotten worse the older I get. I am only 28, but would love for them to get better. Of course my health currently sucks as well.
 
J

j.

Guest
iLoveSugar said:
My dark eyes are horrendous! It, along with gut issues, are my longest known issues. My entire life, I was told to 'get more sleep'. It didn't matter if I get 8 hours or 20, my bags are always awful, and have gotten worse the older I get. I am only 28, but would love for them to get better. Of course my health currently sucks as well.

The number of hours doesn't matter at all. Sometimes the more I sleep, the bigger the circles, especially if I ate something that I probably don't digest well. Maybe the source of the problem is the gut.
 

Peata

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Jun 12, 2013
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I never had dark circles at all... then when my estrogen dominance symptoms got so bad in mid-late 30s, I got them. Purplish area just below the inner corners of eyes. At the time I didn't know if it was thinned skin, allergies, or what. Now after 10 months of RP, they are lighter. I almost don't need concealer under my right eye anymore. Strangely, the left one is still there, but not as bad as it used to be. So maybe it's gut related, hormone, histamine, or all of that and more.
 

iLoveSugar

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Sep 19, 2013
Messages
951
j. said:
iLoveSugar said:
My dark eyes are horrendous! It, along with gut issues, are my longest known issues. My entire life, I was told to 'get more sleep'. It didn't matter if I get 8 hours or 20, my bags are always awful, and have gotten worse the older I get. I am only 28, but would love for them to get better. Of course my health currently sucks as well.

The number of hours doesn't matter at all. Sometimes the more I sleep, the bigger the circles, especially if I ate something that I probably don't digest well. Maybe the source of the problem is the gut.

I would bet quite a bit the gut is a big factor. The worse I am, the worse my gut is, and likewise, the worse my gut, the worse I feel.
 

paper_clips43

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Nov 13, 2013
Messages
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Location
Sedona Arizona
Wilfred said:
Hi Johnny,

My question will probably seems weird to you but.... how do you react, in general, to mosquitoes bites?

Why do you ask this?
I have been think maybe mosquitoes are attracted to high serotonin in the blood?
I've heard vegans say that people eating a lot of bananas have more bites.
 

timthai

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Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
10
sometimes, actually often when you change diets or exercise routines or are under stress or have other worries like health, relationship, work, money etc, of drink too much coffee, you may sleep 8-9 hours, but you don't get enough DEEP sleep... and that can give you dark circles. how is your sleeping?
 

bodacious

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Nov 2, 2015
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Location
UK
Johnny_Burger said:
post 36172 Yeah...I have to start eating liver once or twice a week. But I find it so repulsive, makes me want to throw up, litterally. I'll have to find a way to make it tolerable for my taste buds.

I know this thread is old but I wanted to share some tips for making liver taste better.

Soaking it in milk for 15mins to a few hours before you cook it can take away a lot of the bitterness. I can't quite remember why but I believe it helps draw the bile out of the liver.

A great recipe for cooking it is with honey and lemon—something like this: BBC Calf liver recipe
 
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welshwing

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Apr 25, 2015
Messages
96
Dark circles are caused by a loss of fat on the orbital rim or just shallow bone structure to begin with. I highly doubt your diet will cause dark eye circles, not even if you lost weight because that type of facial fat is only lost from the aging process.
 
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