Why Does Sleep Leave Me Feeling Exhausted?

[danishispsychic]

tart cherry juice concentrate works really well for deep sleep. i love the stuff.- i think it is peaty too.

 

[DannyIrons™]

Has anyone had a breakthrough with this excessive REM, unrestful sleep issue?
I’ve had it for years and it makes me so depressed. I’m not looking for perfect sleep, I just want a normal sleep where I can function like a normal person.
So tired, sleepy, depressed and lethargic throughout the day, every day

 

[DannyIrons™]

@DemiDee Do you dream much? All i know is that when i dream to much i will wake up exhausted with brain fog all day, to much REM sleep. The only thing that helps me is to get out of bed early to reduce the amount of time i can be in that state.

Have you had any luck with the sleep issue?

 

[DemiDee]

Have you had any luck with the sleep issue?

Danny, I've had two overnight sleep tests that haven't showed anything is amiss (though they were far from ideal, given that one tends not to sleep much at all when wired up and unable to move or to turn freely without feeling anxious about either pulling out a wire or simply not sleeping at all). I've tried just about everything over the years, to no avail. Still feel like death in the morning. I dream a lot, yes. Or should I say, I remember my dreams often, and they tend to mostly be exhausting. Interesting thing is, if I have a restless night of waking up a lot, I don't wake up feeling so bad, which convinces me that it's the sleep - or what happens when I'm asleep - that makes me so exhausted on waking.

 

[DannyIrons™]

Danny, I've had two overnight sleep tests that haven't showed anything is amiss (though they were far from ideal, given that one tends not to sleep much at all when wired up and unable to move or to turn freely without feeling anxious about either pulling out a wire or simply not sleeping at all). I've tried just about everything over the years, to no avail. Still feel like death in the morning. I dream a lot, yes. Or should I say, I remember my dreams often, and they tend to mostly be exhausting. Interesting thing is, if I have a restless night of waking up a lot, I don't wake up feeling so bad, which convinces me that it's the sleep - or what happens when I'm asleep - that makes me so exhausted on waking.

I am similar, I have had a sleep study and it didn’t show much. They didn’t even measure breathing. I know my breathing can be heavy during the night, which definitely affects sleep quality but it’s not exclusive as I know people who breathe through their mouth through the night and can still function as a normal human being.

Maybe we need to look for some similarities;

What other problems do you have?
Do you suffer with anxiety/racing mind?
What is your attention span like?
Have you ever used drugs before?

 

[DemiDee]

Maybe we need to look for some similarities;
What other problems do you have?
Do you suffer with anxiety/racing mind?
What is your attention span like?
Have you ever used drugs before?

Looking for similarities and working from there is always a good thing. I have a tendency to anxiety and depression and had quite a traumatic childhood and other traumas through adulthood that are not the usual run-of-the-mill issues. I'm pretty healthy, good diet, never taken drugs, don't like alcohol. Mind is always active, find it hard to relax a lot of the time, typical type A personality. Perfectionist. My attention span isn't great if reading or watching something, but much better if I am working on something which I feel is productive. Memory has always been dreadful, for as long as I can remember However, I'm convinced that none of these things are the problem, because this fatigue occurs in its severest form on first waking, indicating it is a sleep issue which may/may not be enhanced by personality type/lifestyle. And you?

 

[DannyIrons™]

Looking for similarities and working from there is always a good thing. I have a tendency to anxiety and depression and had quite a traumatic childhood and other traumas through adulthood that are not the usual run-of-the-mill issues. I'm pretty healthy, good diet, never taken drugs, don't like alcohol. Mind is always active, find it hard to relax a lot of the time, typical type A personality. Perfectionist. My attention span isn't great if reading or watching something, but much better if I am working on something which I feel is productive. Memory has always been dreadful, for as long as I can remember However, I'm convinced that none of these things are the problem, because this fatigue occurs in its severest form on first waking, indicating it is a sleep issue which may/may not be enhanced by personality type/lifestyle. And you?

Oh yes, I'm not saying that anxiety/depression and perfectionist tendencies are causing this tiredness, I'm more alluding to the question as if they are the causes of the poor quality sleep. I'm pretty sure it basically comes down to an inability to enter restful NREM sleep i.e. deep sleep.

I'm pretty sure I have some degree of OCD/ADD. My attention span is like a goldfish, I had this as a very young child. I have some degree of anxiety and depression, but I'm pretty certain that actually this is a result of poor quality sleep and not the other way around. I thought it could have been some damage when doing some fairly hard psychedelics in my first year of uni, but if you haven't taken drugs then that makes it less likely that it's a problem.

How is your stomach health? and weight? Are you ever required to nap?
I have had to nap in the toilets at work time before because it's so extreme.

 

[DannyIrons™]

However, I'm convinced that none of these things are the problem, because this fatigue occurs in its severest form on first waking, indicating it is a sleep issue which may/may not be enhanced by personality type/lifestyle. And you?

Also, have you ever tried thyroid?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

After you do this a few times, then your glycogen will not run out overnight, and you'll sleep much better.

I've seen this mentioned several times in the forum, about refilling glycogen. I'm guessing you guys talk about liver glycogen, and not muscle glycogen?
I'm eating over 400g of carbs / day, my muscle glycogen should be topped off at 100% for sure.
But then shouldn't my liver glycogen be at 100% too?

I too have been dealing with poor sleep and mild fatigue caused by it. I can only get a good night's sleep if I turn off all electronic devices 1hr before bed and engage in a relaxation / reading ritual before sleep.
I also have a constant runny nose and sneeze a lot.

Ever since doing the Carnivore Diet, I wake up feeling more tired than before, and with mild headaches.
Even a 9hr uninterrupted sleep leaves me feeling not refreshed.

• Warm water + ACV + honey
• Magnesium Glycinate

What do you guys think of this protocol before bed? Read it from Tim Ferris somewhere.

About feeling tired in the first part of the day and energetic in the evenings / at night, I think it may be because of shifted cortisol curve:

Charles Poliquin recommends short-term supplementation of licorice to improve the pathway of Pregnenolone conversion into DHEA instead of cortisol. If you wake up tired and are wired at night you have low cortisol in the morning and high cortisol at night. Supplemental licorice will help flip to a more favorable cortisol curve. 7-10 days of Licorice Plus is a good option and something I implement a few times a year whenever I feel burned out. 1 tablet in the morning and afternoon will help reset your cortisol curve.

 

[aquaman]

Have you had your cortisol checked? You should to see what happens to it.

Also do you check your blood sugar levels? It's very possible that you are not metabolising sugar properly

 

[dreamcatcher]

Has anyone had a breakthrough with this excessive REM, unrestful sleep issue?
I’ve had it for years and it makes me so depressed. I’m not looking for perfect sleep, I just want a normal sleep where I can function like a normal person.
So tired, sleepy, depressed and lethargic throughout the day, every day

Your insomnia might be related to liver function/insulin resistance/fatty liver. Have you thought about that?

 

[DannyIrons™]

Your insomnia might be related to liver function/insulin resistance/fatty liver. Have you thought about that?

I had a liver function test at the GP last week, and whilst they said there was an issue with one of the enzymes, I had a follow up test and they said everything seemed normal.
They are referring me to another sleep study at another hospital, but I do fear it is a waste of time.

 

[dreamcatcher]

I had a liver function test at the GP last week, and whilst they said there was an issue with one of the enzymes, I had a follow up test and they said everything seemed normal.
They are referring me to another sleep study at another hospital, but I do fear it is a waste of time.

Oh I see. According to Chris Masterjohn, it's very difficult if not impossible to diagnose a fatty liver through blood test. I have a history of 10+ years of insomnia and could only turn it around when I eliminated fruits from my diet and reduced my overall fat intake for 3 months.
I truly hope that your sleep gets better. I feel sorry for you.

 

[DannyIrons™]

Oh I see. According to Chris Masterjohn, it's very difficult if not impossible to diagnose a fatty liver through blood test. I have a history of 10+ years of insomnia and could only turn it around when I eliminated fruits from my diet and reduced my overall fat intake for 3 months.
I truly hope that your sleep gets better. I feel sorry for you.

Maybe it could be a fatty liver, I'll have to see what I can do to diagnose. Thank you for your kind words.

 

[dreamcatcher]

Maybe it could be a fatty liver, I'll have to see what I can do to diagnose. Thank you for your kind words.

Hope you get better. At some point, I had to take Cyproheptadine (0.5-1mg at 2pm-and no later, otherwise it would affect sleep quality) and also used a cream containing melatonin.
I know how depressing it could be when you can't sleep at night. When I used to be very stressed, sometimes I just started to think about what things I felt grateful for, on that day, which lowered my stress levels a little.

 

[DannyIrons™]

Hope you get better. At some point, I had to take Cyproheptadine (0.5-1mg at 2pm-and no later, otherwise it would affect sleep quality) and also used a cream containing melatonin.
I know how depressing it could be when you can't sleep at night. When I used to be very stressed, sometimes I just started to think about what things I felt grateful for, on that day, which lowered my stress levels a little.

I might take Cypro at some point, a lot of people have recommended it, just worried about the groginess and lethargy, because I already struggle with that. I actually have no problems with insomnia, I fall to sleep super easily - it's the actual sleep quality that buggers me up.

 

[dreamcatcher]

I might take Cypro at some point, a lot of people have recommended it, just worried about the groginess and lethargy, because I already struggle with that. I actually have no problems with insomnia, I fall to sleep super easily - it's the actual sleep quality that buggers me up.

That's good that you can fall asleep, at least.
Personally, I didn't experience any bad mood, lethargy or depression, using Cyproheptadine. Ray Peat says that it's safe in 0.5-1mg amounts.
I would be interested, if you found a way to improve your sleep quality.

 

[DannyIrons™]

That's good that you can fall asleep, at least.
Personally, I didn't experience any bad mood, lethargy or depression, using Cyproheptadine. Ray Peat says that it's safe in 0.5-1mg amounts.
I would be interested, if you found a way to improve your sleep quality.

I'll report back to the thread on any of my findings. First stop - cortisol test, second stop - cyproheptadine, third stop - might finally try a little thyroid. I've not done it yet, and maybe it'll be the missing piece of the puzzle. I also have historically struggled with weight gain, and I remember Peat saying that he took a little thyroid and he gained healthy weight much easier and he began getting deep sleep.

 

[dreamcatcher]

I'll report back to the thread on any of my findings. First stop - cortisol test, second stop - cyproheptadine, third stop - might finally try a little thyroid. I've not done it yet, and maybe it'll be the missing piece of the puzzle. I also have historically struggled with weight gain, and I remember Peat saying that he took a little thyroid and he gained healthy weight much easier and he began getting deep sleep.

That will be good.
I'm on thyroid supplements and still skinny.

 

[kaybb]

I'll report back to the thread on any of my findings. First stop - cortisol test, second stop - cyproheptadine, third stop - might finally try a little thyroid. I've not done it yet, and maybe it'll be the missing piece of the puzzle. I also have historically struggled with weight gain, and I remember Peat saying that he took a little thyroid and he gained healthy weight much easier and he began getting deep sleep.

Have you had any success ?? I am in the same boat. It’s worse if I have caffine. I feel great with a little caffine but next morning, I’m so down and exhausted I don’t want to go on .