Statue Man Eats Junk

[DBCoast]

So I’m new here and the abundance of info has my head swimming a little. I have so many questions. I found some of the Peat principles after burning my body out with intense CrossFit, morning fasting, and low carb dieting. Despite eating low carb, landscaping 8 hours a day, going all out at CrossFit, and eating low carb, I could not lose weight. I’ve been very frustrated because of this to the point of telling my wife I’m going to workout harder and beat my body into submission. None of this has worked and only made me sick.

I guess my question is an old, tired one, but I’ll ask it anyway. How much is genetic? The reason I ask is because my brother-in-law literally looks like a chiseled statue and always has. He has a very stressful job and eats constant PUFA and cheap junk food. He’s in mid-30s. Not overly active at all. Comparison is not healthy, I get that, but a little piece of me can’t understand how I could do all these things to get fit and they didn’t work. I chalk it up to genetics, which makes me question if I’ll EVER be slim. Is it all the cortisol? Or is it genetics? A little of both? Are we all naturally lean if everything lines up perfectly, but due to modern life things are more unlikely to line up, so more of us are fat?

Sorry if this has been asked multiple times. I just find it difficult to come to terms with going as hard as I did and still being overweight. I could not work out any harder.

 

[Jonk]

There are several ways other than food and nutrition that affects health. I think some "genetically gifted" people might also just be lucky in terms of social upbringing, which sort of creates a positive feedback loop of good health. If you have fun, have meaningful activities and relationships, your hormones probably reflect that, and you're more resilient to stress, weight gain and all that.

Apart from that, for example, for someone gaining weight on cyproheptadine, Ray gave the advice to check vitamin D and thyroid. The feeling I got from cypro is basically lowering of all stress hormones, but also slowed down digestion too much, and subsequent weight gain.
Then I saw someone on the forum talking about gutsense.org, which basically is a protocol of minimal fiber and vitamin c/magnesium in fairly high doses to hydrate the colon. I'm usually very sun sensitive but having "clean" intestines helps tremendously with this. In my limited knowledge, it seems reasonable that slowed down digestion is a big part of weight gain. Endotoxin will burden your detoxifying ability, keeping you in low systemic inflammation, creating a negative feedback loop making digestion even worse. Instead of utilizing the food for energy you store it as fat. To note is regardless of how bad my health was it took a very long while for me to draw the connection between my digestion and overall health.

I know I wrote something similar in another thread by you, so sorry if I'm repeating myself, but seems like it's easily overlooked.

 

[DBCoast]

There are several ways other than food and nutrition that affects health. I think some "genetically gifted" people might also just be lucky in terms of social upbringing, which sort of creates a positive feedback loop of good health. If you have fun, have meaningful activities and relationships, your hormones probably reflect that, and you're more resilient to stress, weight gain and all that.

Apart from that, for example, for someone gaining weight on cyproheptadine, Ray gave the advice to check vitamin D and thyroid. The feeling I got from cypro is basically lowering of all stress hormones, but also slowed down digestion too much, and subsequent weight gain.
Then I saw someone on the forum talking about gutsense.org, which basically is a protocol of minimal fiber and vitamin c/magnesium in fairly high doses to hydrate the colon. I'm usually very sun sensitive but having "clean" intestines helps tremendously with this. In my limited knowledge, it seems reasonable that slowed down digestion is a big part of weight gain. Endotoxin will burden your detoxifying ability, keeping you in low systemic inflammation, creating a negative feedback loop making digestion even worse. Instead of utilizing the food for energy you store it as fat. To note is regardless of how bad my health was it took a very long while for me to draw the connection between my digestion and overall health.

I know I wrote something similar in another thread by you, so sorry if I'm repeating myself, but seems like it's easily overlooked.

Thanks, I missed the digestion piece if you mentioned it earlier. Thanks for reiterating.

For what it’s worth they had a very stressful upbringing. I think he’s just genetically gifted in body composition.

 

[Perry Staltic]

If you are low carb being as active as you are, then obviously low carb is not for you. My brother and I were skinny as rails until mid to late 20s, I've never had a problem with my weight, while he's now morbidly obese. I've always eaten mid to high carbs, but always complex carbs and never, or rarely, refined carbs.

 

[DBCoast]

If you are low carb being as active as you are, then obviously low carb is not for you. My brother and I were skinny as rails until mid to late 20s, I've never had a problem with my weight, while he's now morbidly obese. I've always eaten mid to high carbs, but always complex carbs and never, or rarely, refined carbs.

Yeah, doesn’t seem like it.

My wife (chiseled man’s sister) has the same body. Their dad was always lean. The good news is that my daughter inherited it too, and she loves ballet, so she might naturally get a ballet dancer’s body! (Instead of my wrestler-looking body. Haha)

 

[Jennifer]

So I’m new here and the abundance of info has my head swimming a little. I have so many questions. I found some of the Peat principles after burning my body out with intense CrossFit, morning fasting, and low carb dieting. Despite eating low carb, landscaping 8 hours a day, going all out at CrossFit, and eating low carb, I could not lose weight. I’ve been very frustrated because of this to the point of telling my wife I’m going to workout harder and beat my body into submission. None of this has worked and only made me sick.

I guess my question is an old, tired one, but I’ll ask it anyway. How much is genetic? The reason I ask is because my brother-in-law literally looks like a chiseled statue and always has. He has a very stressful job and eats constant PUFA and cheap junk food. He’s in mid-30s. Not overly active at all. Comparison is not healthy, I get that, but a little piece of me can’t understand how I could do all these things to get fit and they didn’t work. I chalk it up to genetics, which makes me question if I’ll EVER be slim. Is it all the cortisol? Or is it genetics? A little of both? Are we all naturally lean if everything lines up perfectly, but due to modern life things are more unlikely to line up, so more of us are fat?

Sorry if this has been asked multiple times. I just find it difficult to come to terms with going as hard as I did and still being overweight. I could not work out any harder.

If you were doing all of that and still not losing weight, my guess is it’s your thyroid, especially given your history that you shared in your other thread. Do you know what your average temp is when you first wake up in the morning and after you eat? The latter is to rule out if your temp is being elevated by stress hormones. If your temp goes down after you eat, there’s a good chance it is. In my experience, when the thyroid is functioning well, our temp will go up after we eat or maintain if healthy (97.8°+ in the morning and 98.6°+ midday). Also, do you know what your average pulse rate is?

I should add that with hypothyroidism, a person can be overweight or underweight. In my immediate family we are all hypothyroid, yet my mother and brother had/have a hard time losing weight while my dad and I have a harder time gaining weight. My brother was 265 lb at 6’4” and lost weight via major calorie restriction—he’s maintained at around 195 lb for a decade now—and eats almost half the calories I do and I’m roughly half his size—99 lb at 5’1”. The only time I was able to get my weight over 100 lb was when I refed for over a year and a half on 6000+ calories a day.

There are so many factors involved when it comes to our health but for what it’s worth, I did low carb (keto, carnivore, and raw carnivore) and WAPF (my doctor had me on 100 g of carbs a day) and they were not good for my thyroid function, however, neither was high-carb, low-fat and low-protein (grain and legume based vegetarian, whole food vegan, fruitarian, fruit/seafood/lean meat/eggs and fruit/skim milk). I’ve been monitoring my temps, pulse, blood pressure, urine volume, sugars etc. and have been getting routine testing since before my spine collapsed and comparing the diets.

and she loves ballet

A girl after my own heart. :)

 

[DBCoast]

If you were doing all of that and still not losing weight, my guess is it’s your thyroid, especially given your history that you shared in your other thread. Do you know what your average temp is when you first wake up in the morning and after you eat? The latter is to rule out if your temp is being elevated by stress hormones. If your temp goes down after you eat, there’s a good chance it is. In my experience, when the thyroid is functioning well, our temp will go up after we eat or maintain if healthy (97.8°+ in the morning and 98.6°+ midday). Also, do you know what your average pulse rate is?

I should add that with hypothyroidism, a person can be overweight or underweight. In my immediate family we are all hypothyroid, yet my mother and brother had/have a hard time losing weight while my dad and I have a harder time gaining weight. My brother was 265 lb at 6’4” and lost weight via major calorie restriction—he’s maintained at around 195 lb for a decade now—and eats almost half the calories I do and I’m roughly half his size—99 lb at 5’1”. The only time I was able to get my weight over 100 lb was when I refed for over a year and a half on 6000+ calories a day.

There are so many factors involved when it comes to our health but for what it’s worth, I did low carb (keto, carnivore, and raw carnivore) and WAPF (my doctor had me on 100 g of carbs a day) and they were not good for my thyroid function, however, neither was high-carb, low-fat and low-protein (grain and legume based vegetarian, whole food vegan, fruitarian, fruit/seafood/lean meat/eggs and fruit/skim milk). I’ve been monitoring my temps, pulse, blood pressure, urine volume, sugars etc. and have been getting routine testing since before my spine collapsed and comparing the diets.



A girl after my own heart. :)

Thanks, Jennifer. I haven’t tested temp yet. I don’t Know much about thyroid or how any of this works. I need to educate myself. Should I use a basal body thermometer? Don’t know my pulse either. I’ll start tracking them both.

I’ve gotten sweaty after eating, racing heart, almost like adrenaline feeling. Also nausea, like an ill feeling. This was during the full swing of working out/low carb and mostly during evening meal. Currently it isn’t as bad, but I can still experience it occasionally.

I think my approach will be to do zone diet ratios of 40/30/30, eat Peat inspired foods, walk and rest, and see what happens. I had good fat loss results doing zone for a spell during CrossFit days, but stopped because I was craving fat.

 

[Summer]

An answer I hate to hear but can’t help but consider is the mother’s nutrition while a baby is in the womb and the baby’s nutrition after he/she is born. I was given formula as opposed to being breastfed and I do think some of my issues may stem from that fact. Those developmental years are crucial and It’s very likely that the decisions parents make during those formative years can offer a safeguard against many things later in life.

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks, Jennifer. I haven’t tested temp yet. I don’t Know much about thyroid or how any of this works. I need to educate myself. Should I use a basal body thermometer? Don’t know my pulse either. I’ll start tracking them both.

I’ve gotten sweaty after eating, racing heart, almost like adrenaline feeling. Also nausea, like an ill feeling. This was during the full swing of working out/low carb and mostly during evening meal. Currently it isn’t as bad, but I can still experience it occasionally.

I think my approach will be to do zone diet ratios of 40/30/30, eat Peat inspired foods, walk and rest, and see what happens. I had good fat loss results doing zone for a spell during CrossFit days, but stopped because I was craving fat.

You’re welcome. :) Yep, a basal thermometer will work, however, if using digital, you may want to warm it up first before taking your temperature. I find that I have more accurate readings this way. I just stick the thermometer in my shirt for a minute or two.

I’m wondering if your symptoms are related to hypoglycemia. Whenever my blood sugar had gotten too low, I experienced similar symptoms as you when I ate. I found that snacking on homemade gummies—just fruit juice, salt and gelatin—was a convenient and effective way of preventing hypoglycemia and the surge of stress hormones. My mum also found the gummies helpful for preventing hypoglycemia, and I had her keep some by her bedside for when she woke during the night, to help her fall back to sleep.

I think your approach is sound. A diet with fairly balanced macros has been working wonders for me so I find your experience with the zone diet interesting. I hope you have repeat success with a 40/30/30 split. I’m not sure how familiar you are with Ray’s work so apologies if you’re already aware of these, but below are some resources I found helpful.

Ray Peat articles:

Ray Peat

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

And this one in particular, to get you started:

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Ray Peat search engine:

Bioenergetic Search

The Thyroid by Thomas H. McGavack (Ray recommended this book):

Amazon product ASIN 1163825123View: https://www.amazon.com/Thyroid-Thomas-Hodge-McGavack/dp/1163825123/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1PFCU5Z5K1SU1&keywords=The+thyroid+McGavack&qid=1673033607&sprefix=the+thyroid+mcgavack%2Caps%2C82&sr=8-1


Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness by Broda Barnes:

Amazon product ASIN 069001029XView: https://www.amazon.com/Hypothyroidism-Unsuspected-Illness-Broda-Barnes/dp/069001029X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3R5ZTNVIGIN9A&keywords=Broda+Barnes&qid=1673033685&sprefix=broda+barnes%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-1

 

[DBCoast]

You’re welcome. :) Yep, a basal thermometer will work, however, if using digital, you may want to warm it up first before taking your temperature. I find that I have more accurate readings this way. I just stick the thermometer in my shirt for a minute or two.

I’m wondering if your symptoms are related to hypoglycemia. Whenever my blood sugar had gotten too low, I experienced similar symptoms as you when I ate. I found that snacking on homemade gummies—just fruit juice, salt and gelatin—was a convenient and effective way of preventing hypoglycemia and the surge of stress hormones. My mum also found the gummies helpful for preventing hypoglycemia, and I had her keep some by her bedside for when she woke during the night, to help her fall back to sleep.

I think your approach is sound. A diet with fairly balanced macros has been working wonders for me so I find your experience with the zone diet interesting. I hope you have repeat success with a 40/30/30 split. I’m not sure how familiar you are with Ray’s work so apologies if you’re already aware of these, but below are some resources I found helpful.

Ray Peat articles:

Ray Peat

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

And this one in particular, to get you started:

Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Ray Peat search engine:

Bioenergetic Search

The Thyroid by Thomas H. McGavack (Ray recommended this book):

Amazon product ASIN 1163825123View: https://www.amazon.com/Thyroid-Thomas-Hodge-McGavack/dp/1163825123/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1PFCU5Z5K1SU1&keywords=The+thyroid+McGavack&qid=1673033607&sprefix=the+thyroid+mcgavack%2Caps%2C82&sr=8-1


Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness by Broda Barnes:

Amazon product ASIN 069001029XView: https://www.amazon.com/Hypothyroidism-Unsuspected-Illness-Broda-Barnes/dp/069001029X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3R5ZTNVIGIN9A&keywords=Broda+Barnes&qid=1673033685&sprefix=broda+barnes%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-1

Thank you! This is very helpful.

I’ve actually been making gelatin gummies with gelatin and fruit. I’ll add some salt for adrenal recovery - great tip! I try to eat them first thing in the morning and throughout the day to keep stress hormones at bay.

Yes, zone diet worked for me as far as body composition. My lifts went up in the gym and I won a weight loss contest. I retained muscle too (it was measured as part of the competition). Zone carbs are slow digesting carbs. Protein is very lean. I was doing a lot of oatmeal, chicken breast, macadamia nuts, type stuff. After a while I felt like something was missing. I think balancing macros again and shooting for Peat-style carbs might be worth a shot.

Thanks for all the info!

 

[ElmerElmer]

...testing since before my spine collapsed and comparing the diets.

I have tried searching through your posts, but it is quite the task on this website. Regardless, do you think you have regained good bone density since the collapse? I was following Durianriders protocols for over a year and the dentin in my teeth seems to draw back further everyday. I would be nervous to know the conditions of my bones given what is happening to my teeth.

I tried egg shells, egg shells+vitamin k, and now kale/spinach broth with non-noticible effect. Struggling to determine how to reverse the dentin loss. I know sugar is bad for this, but I don't know how I will be able support my metabolism in a peaty way without it.

 

[Jennifer]

Thank you! This is very helpful.

I’ve actually been making gelatin gummies with gelatin and fruit. I’ll add some salt for adrenal recovery - great tip! I try to eat them first thing in the morning and throughout the day to keep stress hormones at bay.

Yes, zone diet worked for me as far as body composition. My lifts went up in the gym and I won a weight loss contest. I retained muscle too (it was measured as part of the competition). Zone carbs are slow digesting carbs. Protein is very lean. I was doing a lot of oatmeal, chicken breast, macadamia nuts, type stuff. After a while I felt like something was missing. I think balancing macros again and shooting for Peat-style carbs might be worth a shot.

Thanks for all the info!

My pleasure. :)

Oh, perfect! I was going to explain why I add the salt but decided not to so I’m glad you know why. :)

Amazing, and matches my experience. The strength in my legs and back have increased substantially since balancing my macros. I’m actually able to carry a full pack and climb without feeling tired or sore, even the next day. My recovery is even better than it was on a fruitarian diet, which used to be the only diet that relieved the pain from my injury. I’m excited to hear how your body responds to balanced macros in combination with Peat-style carbs. If anything, it should be a delicious experiment. Haha!

 

[Jennifer]

I have tried searching through your posts, but it is quite the task on this website. Regardless, do you think you have regained good bone density since the collapse? I was following Durianriders protocols for over a year and the dentin in my teeth seems to draw back further everyday. I would be nervous to know the conditions of my bones given what is happening to my teeth.

I tried egg shells, egg shells+vitamin k, and now kale/spinach broth with non-noticible effect. Struggling to determine how to reverse the dentin loss. I know sugar is bad for this, but I don't know how I will be able support my metabolism in a peaty way without it.

I’m very sorry you are suffering because of following Harley’s dietary advice. I’m not sure if you saw these posts I made in regards to my experience with Harley and his ex-girlfriend Leanne, but in case you haven’t:

Durianrider EXPOSED or TELLING the TRUTH?? | Dr. McDougall | Dr. Greger

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUPnskr2RG4

raypeatforum.com

Durianrider EXPOSED or TELLING the TRUTH?? | Dr. McDougall | Dr. Greger

Oh, okay. Well, it’s a nice coincidence. :) I agree :relaxed:

raypeatforum.com

I know for certain through extensive testing—DEXA scans, ultrasounds, MRIs, special blood and urine tests etc. that I have regained bone density since my spine collapsed, yes. This is what I wrote in the second link I posted:

“Within months of averaging daily 4 L of raw milk and yogurt, 113 g of raw cheese, 2 eggs with butter, 85 g of meat, mainly scallops and crab, some fruit and baby greens, and supplementing with high vitamin butter oil for the extra fat solubles, I was up to 95 lb (43 kg) and had regained the muscle that had atrophied while plant-based and within a year, my z-score (bone density) had increased from -6.7 to -3.6. Just for reference, a score of -3.2 is considered osteopenia and -3.5 is full-blown osteoporosis.”

Do you tolerate any forms of dairy? Do you know what your vitamin D level is? Your PTH? How is your thyroid function and digestion? Do all forms of sugar cause dentin regression?

 

[Richiebogie]

I found some of the Peat principles after burning my body out with intense CrossFit, morning fasting, and low carb dieting.

These are stressful activities leading to unhealthy stress hormones.

Fasting can make your body fearful and hold on to fat.

Be kind to your body eating fruit and quality animal products through the day with moderate exercise.

Try to minimise violent movements in your landscaping job.

Health takes time. Don’t rush.

Romeo wasn’t built in a day.

I find it useful to eat nearly the same stuff every day. That way I can judge the long term benefits / deficiencies / toxins and gradually improve things.

It’s like a manufacturing philosophy called Continuous Improvement whereby many positive incremental changes lead to excellence!

 

[ElmerElmer]

“Within months of averaging daily 4 L of raw milk and yogurt, 113 g of raw cheese, 2 eggs with butter, 85 g of meat, mainly scallops and crab, some fruit and baby greens, and supplementing with high vitamin butter oil for the extra fat solubles, I was up to 95 lb (43 kg) and had regained the muscle that had atrophied while plant-based and within a year, my z-score (bone density) had increased from -6.7 to -3.6. Just for reference, a score of -3.2 is considered osteopenia and -3.5 is full-blown osteoporosis.”

Do you tolerate any forms of dairy? Do you know what your vitamin D level is? Your PTH? How is your thyroid function and digestion? Do all forms of sugar cause dentin regression?

Really appreciate the reply. Thank you for sharing the relevant older posts. I hope you can one day reach a positive z-score. Also, the protocol you have listed there is extremely helpful. I still have a lot of fat to lose, so I will have to think about the tradeoffs. I will try my best and see what happens in the coming months.

 

[Jennifer]

Really appreciate the reply. Thank you for sharing the relevant older posts. I hope you can one day reach a positive z-score. Also, the protocol you have listed there is extremely helpful. I still have a lot of fat to lose, so I will have to think about the tradeoffs. I will try my best and see what happens in the coming months.

You’re welcome. :) And thank you. I’m no longer osteoporotic. :) If this helps any, I only followed that protocol I listed for a year and my current diet, though still dairy-based, has twice the amount of carbs and almost half the fat and my bone density/z-score has continued to improve. The main dietary factors when it comes to my bones and dental health seem to be consuming enough easily digested foods rich in protein, calcium and fat soluble vitamins, and avoiding acidic fruit. I posted this in another thread, but since increasing my fat soluble intake substantially, a crack in the nail of my right index toe that I’ve had since childhood has been growing out. The crack went all the way down to the cuticle and now there is no crack in the new growth: