Runenights Musings

[Runenight201]

I'll have to try out drinking more water. Interesting that juice causes you so much problems, I don't generally get that same effect. In fact without a steady stream of carbs I'm a complete train wreck and my metabolism gets completely demolished.

Of course, since I can't digest any foods anymore, sugar is all that is left LOL. Well that and gelatin, which is the only protein I can handle... lol

You could try a water fast (you’ll prob pee a lot), reset your digestion, feel what a flat stomach is like, and then eat some whole fruit. It was a positive experience for me. I feel like I don’t want to go back to juice, dairy and sugar and upset my digestion. The water kept making me feel good, so I kept drinking it lol.

 

[Cirion]

You could try a water fast (you’ll prob pee a lot), reset your digestion, feel what a flat stomach is like, and then eat some whole fruit. It was a positive experience for me. I feel like I don’t want to go back to juice, dairy and sugar and upset my digestion. The water kept making me feel good, so I kept drinking it lol.

Bro, the train left the station of having a flat stomach about 8 months ago, and it's not ever coming back... At least not any time soon LOL

I am with you on dairy though. All that tryptophan... *shudder*

 

[Runenight201]

Bro, the train left the station of having a flat stomach about 8 months ago, and it's not ever coming back... At least not any time soon LOL

I am with you on dairy though. All that tryptophan... *shudder*

Lol fair. I meant more so in terms of bloat, not abdominal fat. I still have some lower belly fat, but I’m usually bloated all the time. The bloat was completely gone. It was a great feeling.

 

[Cirion]

Lol fair. I meant more so in terms of bloat, not abdominal fat. I still have some lower belly fat, but I’m usually bloated all the time. The bloat was completely gone. It was a great feeling.

Interesting. I'm personally tired of being so fat and bloated and gross. Can't wait until I can look back a year or two down the road when I'm (hopefully) cured and laugh off how fat I used to be lol. I have this job interview in Florida that I'm flying down for and its the worst feeling in the world when you look in the mirror and realize you look bad even in dress clothes, and the fact that you no longer fit into any of your old dress clothes including the jacket... argh. I have all this anxiety that I'm gonna not get the job purely because of being fat, it's not unreasonable of a fear though. That said, engineers tend to be fat, and there are plenty even far fatter than me, so maybe it's fine lol.

 

[Runenight201]

Interesting. I'm personally tired of being so fat and bloated and gross. Can't wait until I can look back a year or two down the road when I'm (hopefully) cured and laugh off how fat I used to be lol. I have this job interview in Florida that I'm flying down for and its the worst feeling in the world when you look in the mirror and realize you look bad even in dress clothes, and the fact that you no longer fit into any of your old dress clothes including the jacket... argh. I have all this anxiety that I'm gonna not get the job purely because of being fat, it's not unreasonable of a fear though. That said, engineers tend to be fat, and there are plenty even far fatter than me, so maybe it's fine lol.

Man I remember when I worked for a physics lab, practically every single man over 40 was fat, balding, and had eye glasses. My health was going down hill at the time and that observation was a contributing factor which got me into this whole Ray Peat mess. I was looking at a photos of a college acquantaince on facebook. This guy was a very good looking dude, had many women going after him at school. In those photos he looked strikingly different. Put on lots of weight, bloated face, hair receding, stereotypical progression of a 20 something year old male who doesn’t take care of himself in the least. It’s jading me to an extent because I’ve been heading in the opposite direction, and going from loser in high school to someone who people want to talk too is making me realize just how universally unlucky those losers are. They didn’t choose the nutrition and health status of their parents, and the corresponding childhood nutrition that literally determines whether their life becomes a walk in the park or whether they’re set to suffer intensely. Of course, we “enlightened” ones are able to change the progression of our health and appearance to a certain extent, but there will always be certain things that will just be outside our control. At least with a healthy mind set those things we are unable to change about ourselves should not depress us, and if it does than I guess one hasn’t matured enough.

So I re-ran my sugar experience and sure enough, my hands went weak again. Drank cola and felt it in my right hand. I ate some chicken and then had some grapes and even the sugar in the grapes started to produce that same effect, but not in the same degree. I had some yucca potatoes and my strength returned. Seems like I can have strength and calmer energy or manic happiness but be weak. I think I’ll take the strength. Perhaps it’s better that way. Things like vegetables, tea, and water settle my stomach and allow me to function well with less food, and even maintain things like good muscle tone and clear thoughts. The manic energy that can be brought on from sugar and dairy makes me out of control. I was at the gym after a damn cheese high and my verbal acuity was through the roof, I couldn’t shut up. How food changes behavior is so apparent to me, it’s become almost an integral part of my existence. I’m social awkward? What did I eat. I’m weak? What did I eat. I’m confident? What did I eat. Repeat ad nauseam.

 

[somuch4food]

So I re-ran my sugar experience and sure enough, my hands went weak again. Drank cola and felt it in my right hand. I ate some chicken and then had some grapes and even the sugar in the grapes started to produce that same effect, but not in the same degree. I had some yucca potatoes and my strength returned. Seems like I can have strength and calmer energy or manic happiness but be weak. I think I’ll take the strength. Perhaps it’s better that way. Things like vegetables, tea, and water settle my stomach and allow me to function well with less food, and even maintain things like good muscle tone and clear thoughts. The manic energy that can be brought on from sugar and dairy makes me out of control. I was at the gym after a damn cheese high and my verbal acuity was through the roof, I couldn’t shut up. How food changes behavior is so apparent to me, it’s become almost an integral part of my existence. I’m social awkward? What did I eat. I’m weak? What did I eat. I’m confident? What did I eat. Repeat ad nauseam.

Have you tried having it all in the same meal? Sugar, dairy, meat and starches. I'm thinking about French style eating. Soup first, then a complete meal with meat and starch, followed by some cheese and finished with a good old dessert with a hot beverage.

 

[Runenight201]

Have you tried having it all in the same meal? Sugar, dairy, meat and starches. I'm thinking about French style eating. Soup first, then a complete meal with meat and starch, followed by some cheese and finished with a good old dessert with a hot beverage.

Certainly if I wanted my brain to happy that’s what I’d do, but since I value my physical and mental capabilities, I don’t want to be eating anything that diminishes those faculties. Maybe when I’m at old age and ready to just relax, but for now success is so dependent on keeping those faculties sharp and developing them, that it wouldn’t be erroneous of me to give that up just to be high and happy all the time. Now that I think about it more, I’ll probably treat it as responsible people treat drinking. On occasion when the mood is light. Too much work makes for a solemn life, but too much play makes for a grown child!

 

[Cirion]

I think alot of it is salt and not so much necessarily "something that's not sugar". But salting sugar is gross so I try not to do it lol. Example: last night I started my anti-protein style eating again, but I was hungry. Potatoes heavily salted immediately cured me of my hunger and grounded me again. Sugar can probably do the same thing, but you would have to heavily salt it. I think it's the electrolye imbalance that causes the spacey feeling of lots of sugar and nothing else. But yeah, *some* protein is probably needed also, whether its at least some gelatin or potato protein (if not animal protein) or some other starchy protein. I think it doesn't take much protein to "ground" yourself, in my experience, starchy proteins are typically sufficient.

 

[Runenight201]

I think alot of it is salt and not so much necessarily "something that's not sugar". But salting sugar is gross so I try not to do it lol. Example: last night I started my anti-protein style eating again, but I was hungry. Potatoes heavily salted immediately cured me of my hunger and grounded me again. Sugar can probably do the same thing, but you would have to heavily salt it. I think it's the electrolye imbalance that causes the spacey feeling of lots of sugar and nothing else. But yeah, *some* protein is probably needed also, whether its at least some gelatin or potato protein (if not animal protein) or some other starchy protein. I think it doesn't take much protein to "ground" yourself, in my experience, starchy proteins are typically sufficient.

Definitely minerals in general.

I woke up this morning and in the battle for good energy, was playing around with different foods. I got desperate and resorted to milk, which honestly did uplift, but I felt it in a negative way. I got energy, but I could feel the ensuing spaciness and digestive upset as a result. Frustrating.

But in every setback, a remedy. I felt that I had to settle my stomach, i knew it was the source of my ills. Remembered I had mushrooms and onions I cooked up. Tried eating it, tasted too damp. Added fresh cut tomatoes, lemon juice, salt. Oh damn. That’s good. Really good. I’m jumping up and down in happiness good. My stomach feels good. The body has been reset, we’ll see how I play the rest of the day. Definitely going to make that dish a staple. I think I will add it to my starches and meat dishes so that it uplifts the energy more so than meat and starch on its own. The meat and starch grounds me but I become very solemn, unless I intake nutrition from somewhere else. Yesterday it was cheese but I’m beginning to doubt it’s true health efficacy

 

[Cirion]

Yeah that "becoming very solemn" is your metabolism getting wrecked imo... Meat and starch is definitely the quickest way to accomplish that in my experience.

I'm definitely with you on cheese. Also waaaay too high in tryptophan. A single 4 oz serving without checking cronometer pretty sure hits my tryptophan budget for the whole day lol.

You don't like the idea of a grown child, but I think that would be fantastic! In fact, doesn't Ray Peat essentially say even adults should look at each day like through the lens of a child? My whole life has been "work work work". I wouldn't mind at all viewing the world in the lens of "play"... Lol

 

[Runenight201]

Yeah that "becoming very solemn" is your metabolism getting wrecked imo... Meat and starch is definitely the quickest way to accomplish that in my experience.

I'm definitely with you on cheese. Also waaaay too high in tryptophan. A single 4 oz serving without checking cronometer pretty sure hits my tryptophan budget for the whole day lol.

You don't like the idea of a grown child, but I think that would be fantastic! In fact, doesn't Ray Peat essentially say even adults should look at each day like through the lens of a child? My whole life has been "work work work". I wouldn't mind at all viewing the world in the lens of "play"... Lol

I don’t think my metabolism is getting wrecked because I feel my muscles harden up and hands become very strong and warm when I eat meat and starch. Nothing else will give me that. It certainly is not a good thing for my hand to be weak and cold, which excess sugar does to me every time.

I think it’s a necessary part of nutrition, but it can’t be the only part. It grounds the energy, but then I have to raise it with vegetables and fruits primarily.

I think there’s a balance somewhere with work and play. Having the energy of a child is fine, but having the competency of one seriously retards quality of life.

 

[Cirion]

This makes me wonder if its possible to be physically strong and also optimal metabolism then. Knowing how meat and starch impacts me I will probably never eat that combo again in my life if I can help it. If it means less strength so be it. I (personally) prefer feeling good mentally above all else. But, that's just me of course.

I dunno though, the last time I was both mentally healthy AND very very strong I ate neither meat NOR starch... for whatever that's worth. (Well, not much starch anyway. And technically carb powder is starch, but eh...)

Almost all of my calories came from protein/carb powder haha. Wasn't ideal, but I noticed even back then when I added meat and starch it actually took AWAY strength (and energy) from me. So it's weird, because I haven't noticed it even when I was healthy. I always found starch was helpful, but not so much animal meat.

 

[Runenight201]

For sure strength isn’t everything, and solely focusing on that would be an error. I could be a lot stronger if I just ramped up egg, meat, and dairy consumption, but I run into other problems very quickly. You definitely can be physically strong and very healthy though. Hopefully I become a testament to that :)

Lunch is probably the best lunch I’ve had in a while. I’m not 100% satisfied but probably at 75%, which is the best I’ve been from a meal in a while. It consisted of chicken, rice, a mango, banana, and water. The chicken and rice grounded me, the mango and banana gave that head high. Mango is so good. It tasted like heavenly nectar. I could see myself eating 3 mangos a day lol. Water helped things pass through. Still feel like I’m missing something though... I think it could just be water though, so I’ll keep hydrating.

 

[Cirion]

Yeah hard to say. Sorry if I am hijacking your thread with tangents lol. I made a thread that is starting to compile all my thoughts on animal products and why I can't tolerate them though. It's complicated, but basically in hypothyroid you're both protein deficient and protein toxic at the same time, which I believe describes me now. A real b**** of a situation to be sure. The trick is to somehow correct the protein deficiency, and without aggravating the protein toxicity. Argh.

 

[Runenight201]

Yeah hard to say. Sorry if I am hijacking your thread with tangents lol. I made a thread that is starting to compile all my thoughts on animal products and why I can't tolerate them though. It's complicated, but basically in hypothyroid you're both protein deficient and protein toxic at the same time, which I believe describes me now. A real b**** of a situation to be sure. The trick is to somehow correct the protein deficiency, and without aggravating the protein toxicity. Argh.

Well I think we overdo the animal products, but I certainly think a small amount is necessary in the diet. I think the fat isn’t helpful and leaner is better.

Having real withdrawal symptoms from lack of pure sugar and dairy. Mainly headache. Took some aspirin which has helped, the only time I use aspirin is when I have a headache. My stomach is much happier now, and my energy much more stable today. Diet is essentially just rice, meat, veggies, fruit, water. Only ate animal flesh once today, my other meals were just rice, fruit, and veggies to keep the energy up. My stomach is very flat. Fruit is almost a necessity to properly digest rice. Tomatoes are a godsend. They paired excellently with rice. I find I don’t even need much salt with the tomatoes in the rice. The truest test is whether I can sleep a solid 8 hours without waking up early. I’ve got a good feeling about tonight though.

 

[Cirion]

Well I think we overdo the animal products, but I certainly think a small amount is necessary in the diet. I think the fat isn’t helpful and leaner is better.

Having real withdrawal symptoms from lack of pure sugar and dairy. Mainly headache. Took some aspirin which has helped, the only time I use aspirin is when I have a headache. My stomach is much happier now, and my energy much more stable today. Diet is essentially just rice, meat, veggies, fruit, water. Only ate animal flesh once today, my other meals were just rice, fruit, and veggies to keep the energy up. My stomach is very flat. Fruit is almost a necessity to properly digest rice. Tomatoes are a godsend. They paired excellently with rice. I find I don’t even need much salt with the tomatoes in the rice. The truest test is whether I can sleep a solid 8 hours without waking up early. I’ve got a good feeling about tonight though.

Yeah I think the fats in animals are no bueno also. If you must have fats, plant fats are probably the safest (not nuts/pufa's obviosuly, I mean like coconut oil, maybe some olive oil, possibly a small bit of avocado fat etc...). But even nuts are probably safer than eating grain-fed animal fat. Even grass-fed animals, when you eat their fat, you literally also eat whatever toxins that may be stored in them and who knows what those may be, could be literally anything. Or, I guess it could be nothing also. I don't like unknown factors. Grass-fed animals would certainly have less toxins stored in their fat, to be sure, but I don't trust even that. A grain-fed fatty cut of meat though?? I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole lol. Grain-fed animals would have all sorts of fun things in their fat like estrogens, antibiotics, and other such stuff. Not to mention more pufa. But plant based fats are safe(er) because they aren't going to be at risk at containing the same toxins that animal fats would.

 

[redsun]

Yeah I think the fats in animals are no bueno also. If you must have fats, plant fats are probably the safest (not nuts/pufa's obviosuly, I mean like coconut oil, maybe some olive oil, possibly a small bit of avocado fat etc...). But even nuts are probably safer than eating grain-fed animal fat. Even grass-fed animals, when you eat their fat, you literally also eat whatever toxins that may be stored in them and who knows what those may be, could be literally anything. Or, I guess it could be nothing also. I don't like unknown factors. Grass-fed animals would certainly have less toxins stored in their fat, to be sure, but I don't trust even that. A grain-fed fatty cut of meat though?? I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole lol. Grain-fed animals would have all sorts of fun things in their fat like estrogens, antibiotics, and other such stuff. Not to mention more pufa. But plant based fats are safe(er) because they aren't going to be at risk at containing the same toxins that animal fats would.

If the cow is raised on grass and in as natural a setting as possible as in on a pasture, it will have virtually no toxins stored in its fat, but will have plenty of fat-solubles in it's fat. Though I don't know how many even enjoy eating large quantities of fat from animal straight up besides the fat on a steak or something... Unless you cook with tallow or what not.

 

[Runenight201]

Aspirin hasn’t helped enough. Head ache getting worse. My stomach was still hungry despite the rice and tomatoes, but I couldn’t fathom eating more protein. Made an egg soup, which settled my hunger and shot my heart rate through the roof. Probably beating at like 80 bpm rn which is pretty cool. Warm hands and feet. I think my body is liberating loads of toxins from my fat. I’m just going to rough it out as I’m getting no hunger signals, so I don’t want to eat anything to fix it. Trying to make it to the other side sugar free.

 

[Cirion]

Why are you stopping the sugar man? When you suddenly withdraw sugar, your body is just going to eat your own protein stores to make it. When this happens, cystine and tryptophan is released into the bloodstream, and is probably the reason for the malaise you are feeling.

 

[redsun]

@Cirion
Assuming he isn't getting adequate carbohydrates. But it sounds like he is though.

@Runenight201
I think this is an interesting step you are taking that many here would never dream of(removing sugars besides fruit). I think you'll come out the other side better off.