A Wish For More Energy

somuch4food

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After dabbling with Ray Peat's principles, I concluded that this diet is not for me right now.

What I tried to do was upping Saturated fat with cream, butter, whole milk and cheeses, while restricting vegetable oils. I also ate more fruits and added salt to everything. That sent my body on a blood sugar roller coaster. I also noticed an increase in sebum production (probably from the blood sugar swings). I was hungry all day, unable to concentrate on work and so, I scratched that and reverted to my low processed foods diet.

I am now trying to be more in tune with my body. I try to notice how I feel after eating.

Since then, I discovered apples are no good, they make me ravenous all day long.

I suspect whole milk also has the same effect. I drank a glass of milk with cookies last night and felt hungry again soon after.

White potatoes make me feel bloated soon after eating them and they might be a cause of my constipation.

Beef or wheat seem to make me depressed and affect my ability to focus at work

I will continue to post as I discover more foods that affect me in a positive or negative way.
 
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somuch4food

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My current health problems are:
  • insomnia (waking up multiple times at night)
  • trouble focusing
  • feeling depressed/sluggish most of the time
  • always feeling hungry
  • bloating, gas and occasional constipation
  • sometimes, feeling stiff at wakeup
  • left knee pain when sitting for too long
The insomnia started after I started breastfeeding at night. Interestingly, the depression and the stiffness were greatly reduced while I was breastfeeding. Since having stopped, it all came back.

Before having insomnia, I had no trouble sleeping, but I rarely woke up feeling rested. Many symptoms are ongoing for more than 10 years. The hunger and focus troubles being the most recent (about 3 years) and started either from a stressful event or a change in diet (cutting many processed foods).

Any comments to help me figure out a way to feel energized would be appreciated.
 

MigFon

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What did a normal day of eating looked like with the high sat fat diet you were doing?
 

somuch4food

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Do you, or have you tried supplemental magnesium?

I am careful about using supplements and would prefer a whole food approach. I did try Epsom Salts bath a few times. I did not follow through with it regularly because when I log my food in Cronometer I am never low in magnesium.

Do you think it would make a big difference?

I think I read somewhere that magnesium helps with sleep and blood sugar. Is that how it would help?
 

somuch4food

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What did a normal day of eating looked like with the high sat fat diet you were doing?

Here is a day I logged into Cronometer.

I have a family and I am not the cook. So, I have to compromise on many meals.
 

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marcar72

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Do you think it would make a big difference?

I think it would considering how high your calcium intake is. Calcium to magnesium ratio is very important, even more so when eating dairy rich "Peaty" style. From what I've read most would aim between a 2:1 - 1:1 calcium/magnesium ratio. I would suggest trying a good magnesium glycinate or magnesium taurate supplement, and/or stick with Epsom salt baths/magnesium oil.
 

somuch4food

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Calcium to magnesium ratio is very important, even more so when eating dairy rich "Peaty" style.

I have cut way down on the dairy since attempting to Peat. I felt like it was slowing my transit: I had more gas and less stools. Might it be only that I was not properly balancing out the calcium?

The RDA for calcium seems high and I have seen that it is less prevalent in other cultures that do well healthwise. If I eat at least 2 servings of dairy a day, I suppose I am Ok.
 

somuch4food

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I think that Iron is the problem behind beef and/or wheat triggering depressive symptoms.

I ate a lot of fortified wheat products with beef in the 24 hour period before the symptoms appeared.

Following this thread, I will consume dairy or tea when eating high iron meals and limit vitamin C and sugar during those meals to inhibit iron absorption.

I note also that high manganese spices and sweeteners should be added to food regularly: fresh coriander, cinnamon, ginger, turmeric, cloves and maple syrup. Manganese competes with iron for absorption.
 

lampofred

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Maybe your symptoms could be a sign estrogen/serotonin dominance coupled with low glycogen storage. That would explain the ravenous hunger combined with the muscle pains and an inability to concentrate. Thyroid and regular coffee intake should improve glycogen storage in the long-run (although they might worsen it in the short-run) and fructose is much better than glucose at raising glycogen stores, a daily carrot salad might help to clean your intestines to lower serotonin, and it might be better to focus on replacing PUFAs with carbs/sugar instead of saturated fat because I think any kind of excess fat intake will lower metabolism and cause a rise in estrogen/serotonin, although PUFA is definitely more damaging than saturated fat.
 

somuch4food

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Thyroid and regular coffee intake should improve glycogen storage in the long-run (although they might worsen it in the short-run)

Got tested by the doctor and I am not hypothyroid. So, thyroid is out of question. As for coffee, I don't care much about the stuff. I drink a bit of tea. I had banned all types of beverages except for water and milk. I have started adding juice. I will try to be more consistent with tea and maybe try coffee later.

I need to be more thorough with the daily carrot. I will prepare a big batch for the week and see how it goes.

Maybe your symptoms could be a sign estrogen/serotonin dominance coupled with low glycogen storage

I do think it is hormonal because my symptoms were lessened when I was breastfeeding and I have heavy painful periods.

it might be better to focus on replacing PUFAs with carbs/sugar instead of saturated fat because I think any kind of excess fat intake will lower metabolism

That's also my conclusions but I struggle to eat enough calories without fat. Instead of fat, I have started to drink juice everyday and I will cook fruits to increase my intake.

I wanted to drink more milk, but I feel it makes me constipated because of the calcium and low magnesium diet.
 

somuch4food

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Last week, I focused on magnesium with Epsom Salts baths or foot baths and ordered magnesium oil to continue supplementing as needed (more convenient than a bath). It helped moving my bowels more, but I was still bloated. After a couple of days, I started to notice that the Epsom Salts was not relaxing anymore, I take that as a sign that I was having too much, so I stopped over the weekend.

I also had a daily raw carrot with vinegar and olive oil (no coconut oil at home). Is the coconut oil really important? No noticeable effect, but I will continue. I like raw carrots anyway.

I successfully reintroduced apples. I just need to cook them. My problem is probably that they are not ripe enough for me to be eaten raw.

I somewhat feel a bit better: more focus at work, but less energy overall. I do get sluggish/nauseous from around 3 to 7 pm. From what I have read on the forum, I should eat more proteins early in the day. My usual breakfast is low: oatmeal or pancakes. This morning I had tuna with oatmeal at 7am. I think I did not get enough carbs in with it because I was hungry again at 9am.

I am beginning to suspect that phosphate might be more of a problem than iron in the bloating and depressive symptoms I get from meat and wheat. I've read that fructose is helpful to reduce phosphate.

I introduced gelatin as panna cotta dessert over the weekend and will continue during this week and see its effect.
 

tara

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Since then, I discovered apples are no good, they make me ravenous all day long.
Since abandonning the higher sat fat approach, are you still eating as much? Breastfeeding and looking after a baby are both demanding.
Hunger could well be a natural healthy indicator to eat.

I have a family and I am not the cook. So, I have to compromise on many meals.
That's tricky.
Digesticve trouble: Individual food intolerances can vary, but looking at your food list, I wonder whether you've checked whether the regular wheat is serving you well? Just 3 days without might give a clue. Or the dairy. (Milk can be great food when it is well digested and used, but doesn't seem to work well for everyone at all times.) I imagine it could be hard to replace if you don't have control over the food supply.
That's also my conclusions but I struggle to eat enough calories without fat. Instead of fat, I have started to drink juice everyday and I will cook fruits to increase my intake.
Yes, this seems one good reason for including some sat fat, as well as it possibly helping with digestion and helping sustain sleep
through the night. I'd keep some of each, how much guided by observing your energy, sleep, transit etc.
I wanted to drink more milk, but I feel it makes me constipated because of the calcium and low magnesium diet.
Not unusual for dairy to contribute to constipation. More fruit and veges might help?

I need to be more thorough with the daily carrot. I will prepare a big batch for the week and see how it goes.
I found grating enough for 3 days could work OK, but they didn't keep so well for a week. :)

The hunger and focus troubles being the most recent (about 3 years) and started either from a stressful event or a change in diet (cutting many processed foods).
Do you think you reduced your food intake when you changed from more to less processed food? That could potentially lead to hunger, and potentially sleep trouble. Sleep deprivation doesn't do much for concentration.
Got tested by the doctor and I am not hypothyroid. So, thyroid is out of question.
What do you mean? Did you get lab results? Many regular doctors accept as 'normal' a standard TSH range that for some people seems to be consistent with quite a lot of hypothyroid symptoms. People who can sometimes benefit significantly from careful thyroid supplementation.
Have you read Peat's articles on thyroid?:
http://raypeat.com/articles/
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/hypothyroidism.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid-insanities.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid.shtml

I somewhat feel a bit better: more focus at work, but less energy overall. I do get sluggish/nauseous from around 3 to 7 pm. From what I have read on the forum, I should eat more proteins early in the day. My usual breakfast is low: oatmeal or pancakes. This morning I had tuna with oatmeal at 7am. I think I did not get enough carbs in with it because I was hungry again at 9am.
IME, yes to some protein earlier in day. For me, I was vulnerable to nausea when hungry for years. Hungry a couple hours after first breakfast sounds normal to me. :)
 

walker_in_aus

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Hi, just wanted to let you know, when I started adding in salt and calcium and more ray peat style eating I was ravenous too. My health guy told me to eat, so i did. I ate heaps. Just do changes slowly and eat when you're hungry. Suddenly adding dairy has the same effect on me, but doing it slowly with unhomogenised milk means I can have two glasses a day with no significant problems.

Apples make me feel hungry and grumbly too - but stewing them makes them amazing. Havings oats with milk and stewed apples can be DELICIOUS.

I also had insomnia, digestive issues, and being tired and cold and weak all day. It gradually improved, you will feel better eventually and taking note of how you feel and what you eat is the perfect first step!

I also agree, be wary of supps, don't try too many or too much at once. I get really excited about supplements and some have been really helpful (taurine) and others have just been really hard to get right.

Insomnia is killer, but it can get better, just got to calm your system down and get it good at producing good clean energy :)
 

somuch4food

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There really is something going on with raw apples. I feel hungry all day long and have to eat a lot more to feel satisfied. Like I'm stuffing myself to mask the sensation. I'm not sure it's actual hunger, it might simply feel like hunger.

Yes, stewed apples are awesome with some cinnamon. One of my favorite dessert.
 

tara

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Many regular doctors accept as 'normal' a standard TSH range that for some people seems to be consistent with quite a lot of hypothyroid symptoms.
Have you had a go at monitoring your own body temps?
 

somuch4food

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@walker_in_aus Great to hear positive feedback. I was already consuming a lot of dairy, always loved cheese, milk and ice cream. But I have to make a habit of using salt more since I had cut it out almost entirely because of media propaganda. No need to cut salt if you don't eat packaged goods :)
 

somuch4food

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Since abandonning the higher sat fat approach, are you still eating as much? Breastfeeding and looking after a baby are both demanding.
Hunger could well be a natural healthy indicator to eat.

I think so instead of supplementing with sat fat for more calories, I am using more sweeteners. My diet is not particularly low fat, I just don't go looking for more fat anymore. I get ample amounts from whole milk, cheese, butter and cocoa.

Digesticve trouble: Individual food intolerances can vary, but looking at your food list, I wonder whether you've checked whether the regular wheat is serving you well? Just 3 days without might give a clue. Or the dairy.

I am currently observing. I haven't ruled out anything from my diet, but I take note of how I feel after eating certain foods. I don't think it's gluten, I feel great after eating toast or bread. I seem to have more trouble with potatoes (I feel stuffed fast).

More fruit and veges might help?

That's my take too.

Do you think you reduced your food intake when you changed from more to less processed food? That could potentially lead to hunger, and potentially sleep trouble. Sleep deprivation doesn't do much for concentration.

My sleep was not initially affected, though I hadn't woken up feeling refreshed for the longest of time. The insomnia started recently during pregnancy, but I think I was not eating enough before. I remember trying to fight my hunger sometimes.

IME, yes to some protein earlier in day. For me, I was vulnerable to nausea when hungry for years. Hungry a couple hours after first breakfast sounds normal to me. :)

Had a great day yesterday with more proteins in the morning, I felt warm all day long even with the cold temperature outside :D

I thought I needed to be prescribed thyroid. It looks like I could try some, but I am trying to limit supplements if possible.

Have you had a go at monitoring your own body temps?

I did take my morning temperature initially. It was 36 celsius, so 96.8 Fahrenheit. Is there a protocol I could follow? I was not sure when to do it.
 
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