Ray Peat Diet in Germany

Discussion in 'Diet, Recipes' started by hanns, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. hanns

    hanns Member

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    Hello everybody and especially all German members,

    most of the topics in this forum are country independent, but when it comes to food supply and questions like "Where can I buy ...?" or "Which brands do you recommend?" most of the information in this forum is worthless, if you don't live in the US.

    I have learned that there are a view German members in this forum. I would like to use this thread to get in touch with each other and discuss about these country dependet topics.
     
  2. OP
    hanns

    hanns Member

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    Ray Peat often recommends sea food, especially shell fish.
    What are good sources for e.g. oysters in Germany?
    I've never bought or even ate oysters before. I think they are a delicacy here and quite expensive, aren't they?
     
  3. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    :welcome2 to the forum hanns.

    You are correct, there are a number of forum members from Germany.
    Great idea to share information amongst each other. There is a similar thread created by forum members from the UK discussing the similar issues.
     
  4. tobieagle

    tobieagle Guest

    Oysters:
    I just asked today in "globus". They said you can order them for about 1,5 EUR each.
    But they are cultivated. Im not sure wether this affects mineral content etc.
    Maybe i order some of them next week and report how they were.

    Id like to know which cheese is recommended. I like to get the kerrygold cheeses... Afaik they are free of added cultures/beta carotine and they taste rly well.
     
  5. OP
    hanns

    hanns Member

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    I've just learned that I have a Globus near my home town. Is it a kind of organic supermarket like Alnatura? Do you have good experiences with their products?
     
  6. Edward

    Edward Member

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    Globus has oysters. You have to get there early in the morning. Where I'm living they are gone usually a little after midday, but they are good quality and fresh. On the weekends it's best to get them when they open as they are usually gone before noon. Globus also has a lot of direct pressed fruit juices in glass bottles. I actually just got back from picking up a crate of 6 liters of apple juice for about 6 or 7 euro. And of course glass bottled orange juice, the separation is obvious. Globus has most of what you would need to make a good diet and potato is cheap, about 5 or 6 euro for 20 kilos. Plenty of basic cheeses to choose from. They also have oxtails. For meat I go to the local butcher, the liver is very fresh, it isn't bitter like in the US. It actually smells sweet. Some butchers have oxtails some don't. The oysters are expensive 1.50-2.50 euro a piece. Fresh oranges are expensive as well but are good quality. There is nothing better than fresh squeezed taste wise, but I prefer to get 6 liters for 6-7 euro and mix it with a little simple syrup and carbonated water. Most brands of coffee is good. You can choose from free range or prison eggs. But either way the egg quality is still superior to even the best eggs in the US. There is also a good selection of banana from different parts of the world. Most fruit is carried in season. Alnatura is excellent for getting milk. You can get full fat unhomogenized milk and let it cool in the fridge over night and when you open it you can scoop the plug of fat out of the glass bottle which would yield somewhere in the range of .5-1.5% milk. At .5% it is very easy to got through 3-4 liters a day. The longer you let it sit still the more fat you'll be able to lift out. You can save that fat and make your own butter and cream. About the only thing that I have to order out for is coconut oil and canning and pickling salt. Globus usually has a good selection of melons especially water melon and occasionally cherries and such. Kerrygold can also be found there and Lidl.

    Germany is literally one of the best places I've lived (for 6-7 years now) and the majority of their food supply is safe. And of course last but not least, the Coke is made with real sugar, in fact a lot of their soft drinks are. The beef is excellent, it's not aged, I'm almost quite certain that ground beef contains liver in the mixture. Some German towns have fishmongers and you can sometimes get a better deal on oysters and shrimp. The fresh cooked shrimp is excellent.

    If you use white rice it is unnecessarily expensive. But oats are inexpensive and good quality.
     
  7. tobieagle

    tobieagle Guest

    Which ones can you recommend?

    How do you know? What are the signs of good quality eggs?

    Arent they all shelf ripened?

    Why? Globus got refined coconut oil cubes 1EUR/250g and salt without iodine/fluorid
    .
    Can you go into detail please? What are the differences compared to the US for example?


    Edward you are new to the forum and you seem to have a huge amount of experience (for example the acne issues).
    But you didnt introduce yourself yet. I would really want to know where you come from, where you gathered all of your experience etc..
    Are you coaching people?
     
  8. Edward

    Edward Member

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    Brands will vary as it seems that the different stores will often carry what is produced locally. Where I'm located I tend to drink "Losch's" brand. But more importantly you should look for the glass bottles and look to see if it is direct pressed and that it is not from concentrate and that it has nothing else. The glass bottled ones tend to be good at just containing the fruit that is pressed but there are some that have other ingredients.
    A dark yellow to orange yolk and an indestructible shell.
    I mainly mentioned the variety because some people seem to be concerned about how stressful of an environment bananas grow in. Countries that have a small banana economy may produce less stressed bananas. I really don't think it is a primary concern, or even secondary.
    Are you talking about the coconut oil wrapped in a silver paper? I prefer the Tropical Traditions. For my daughter I use virgin and refined coconut oil from Tropical Traditions for her diaper changes, for a week or two I had run out of it and had to use the one from Globus and found that it actually irritated her skin. No particular reason for the salt, just something I order when ordering other things.
    Basically the farming for the most part is still responsible. Every food that I remember eating in the United States tastes better, noticeably better. I had some relatives visiting and they couldn't believe how different and richer unseasoned foods tasted compared to the United States.
     
  9. OP
    hanns

    hanns Member

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    I'm still confused about this concentrate/not concentrate thing. I found a German supplier for pure orange juice concentrate. It's name is RatioDrink. They sell the concentrate and you can mix it with tap water to get juice.

    What are the chief differences between this selfmade juice from concentrate and direct pressed juice?
    To my understanding they just use the direct pressed juice and evaporate the H2O. Are there other important contents which are evaporated, too? Are there Vitamins/Minerals which are destroyed by this process?
     
  10. jyb

    jyb Member

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    Concentrate is better than nothing, though less good than very fresh. But it doesn't mean that its better than non-fresh but not-from-concentrate, which can have a lot of processing - some concentrate may be preferable to not-from-concentration but you'd have to know the processing detail to compare, which is hard. I recommend reading the thread about this on this forum. It's already good if your from concentrate is not with fluoridated water. If its concentrate powder...might be ok, but see RP's quote below.

    Vitamin C is affected, actually I thought there would be none left due to the process, but manufacturers claim there's some. But I believe that the essential (sugar, potassium, magnesium...) is still there. I prefer very fresh when I can, not really because there would be a bit more nutrients, but because I know there's no problems with the processing and storage.

    RP cited in http://www.dannyroddy.com/2011/12/2...ding-a-foundation-for-better-understandi.html:

     
  11. OP
    hanns

    hanns Member

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    The concentrate I have is a thick fluid similar to sirup, which has to be mixed with water in a ratio of 1:3. I mix it with German tap water, which is said to be with no additives. In Germany they call tap water the most tightly controlled "food".
     
  12. Edward

    Edward Member

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    RatioDrink (https://www.ratiodrink.de/, http://youtu.be/MYU6RfHMWU8) concentrate looks fine, in fact I will see if they have some in my area and try it because it actually looks like a good deal, when German products have the Bio-Siegel stamp (http://www.bio-siegel.de/english/homepage/), the EU organic stamp (http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/home_en), or BioLand (http://www.bioland.de/bioland/startseite.html), they are usually fine. I tend to trust the BioLand and Bio-Siegel products the most and the EU organic stamp the least. BioLand has the strictest guidelines and that stamp has been around since 1970's. Demeter (http://www.demeter.de/verbraucher/produkte) products excellent milk and cream.

    The main reasoning of avoiding concentrated juices is because typically modern manufactures are irresponsible in the United States. Even than as Ray says with a lot of foods, try them, and see how you feel. Growing up that is all we drank, OJ from concentrate, and then several years later we switched to bottled because the concentrate started tasting bitter and acidic.
     
  13. OP
    hanns

    hanns Member

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    Edward, you mentioned that you drink apple juice. I never heard anything good about apples in terms of this diet. Actually I don't know why. Is it the high fructose? Would you say that apple juice is benefitial? If this was the case I think I would try some of the apple juices of RatioDrink. They have one with 80% apple and 20% cherry.

    Today I got my first oysters. They were quite tasty. The saleswoman said that the oyster season is over soon (only the months with R). Do they sitll sell oysters in summer? Is there something like canned oysters in Germany?

    What are your preferred fruits here in Germany? I didn't eat a lot of fruits lately, because I often had bad luck with unripe fruits. I think juices are much more convenient.

    What about the serotonin in bananas?
     
  14. Edward

    Edward Member

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    Yes, I drink apple juice. I tend to eat most fruits that have a good amount of free fructose. Grape juice, etc. Most of the benefits seen with studies in apple juice are probably related to the fructose but nonetheless there may be other beneficial compounds in it. For myself I typically just go with what makes me feel well. I've noticed that apple juice much like when I experimented with crystalline fructose, seems to improve respiration, yet it has less fructose than other fruits and crystalline fructose. So I'm not sure of the mechanism.

    Google Scholar search for "Alzheimer apple juice"
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Alz ... _sdt=0%2C5

    I haven't looked for canned oysters but they may have them and I will try to remember and look tomorrow when I'm food shopping. I will write that down. And I will see about the seasonal availability. But typically I've always been able to get them at Globus or from a fishmonger. If for some reason I can't get oysters I will eat more dark chocolate usually 85-90%. Some people crave dark chocolate I have a tendency to think it is because of the zinc and copper but it could be other compounds in it as well.

    My preferred fruits is basically whatever I see that looks o.k. Melons, banana, apricots, figs, dates, raisins, oranges, lemons to make lemonade, grapes or grape juice, mango, papaya, etc. Basically any fruit that is available, even strawberries and other berries with whipped cream on top. I eat a lot of carbohydrate and I refuse to just drink orange juice for the rest of my life so I like basically anything that suits my taste buds fruit wise. I tend not to over think it. Most any fruit is better than none. If the fruit isn't ripe I usually put it in a bag or let it sit out till it is ready.

    As far as serotonin in bananas I don't worry about it, I don't eat them enough to even consider it, and I'm constantly rotating things in and out fruit wise, so for myself I don't think I eat enough for them to make a systematic difference. I have them when I want basically.

    Fruit can get expensive so either I will drink more juice which is cheaper or I will eat more starch which for me I'm fine with, some people don't do so well.
     
  15. pboy

    pboy Member

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    I think apples have a high querticin content which supposedly was shown to have aromatase inhibiting qualities, increasing free testosterone (well, maintaining would be a better word). As for me I've noticed the apple juices that are really cloudy arent' that appealing, but moderate amounts of some clear apple juice can be pleasant time to time
     
  16. Edward

    Edward Member

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    hanns, I couldn't find any canned oysters at Globus. They did have mussels though which aren't as rich in zinc but they still have a good nutrient profile. Additionally, osyters are carried year round except the summer months at Globus. However, you should be able to find them at a fishmonger. Also only the last picture was just mussels. All the others had additives and flavors.

    Here is the nutrient breakdown:
    [​IMG]

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  17. Icecreambear

    Icecreambear Member

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    Hi everybody, I'm also living in Germany.

    I think it's not a problem to get good Orange Juice over here. Almost every supermarket chain ( and/or discounter ) has it's own brand, most of them without any additives and fresh ( and without pulp ). And it's rather cheap.
    I prefer the juice from our local organic market. It's more expensive but it comes in a glass bottle ( no endocrine disruptors here :cool: ) and the taste is almost like freshly squeezed, can't get enough of that stuff.
     
  18. OP
    hanns

    hanns Member

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    Thank you very much for your information, Edward. I will buy the oysters as long as possible. If they are not available anymore I will try frozen mussels.

    About the apple juice: I read that aromatase inhibitors are substances which lower estrogen. Does this mean, that apple juice has an anti-estrogenic effect? That sounds very good, doesn't it? Is free testosterone good or bad?
     
  19. Edward

    Edward Member

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    hanns, I have not looked in depth enough to see whether or not apple juice is an aromatase inhibtor or not, I do not know, but if it indeed is, then yes, I would consider that a good thing.

    "At first, it was assumed that the amount of the hormone in the blood corresponded to the effectiveness of that hormone. Whatever was in the blood was being delivered to the “target tissues.” But as the idea of measuring “protein bound iodine” (PBI) to determine thyroid function came into disrepute (because it never had a scientific basis at all), new ideas of measuring “active hormones” came into the marketplace, and currently the doctrine is that the “bound” hormones are inactive, and the active hormones are “free.” The “free” hormones are supposed to be the only ones that can get into the cells to deliver their signals, but the problem is that “free hormones” exist only in the imagination of people who interpret certain lab tests, as I discussed in the newsletter on thyroid tests (May, 2000)." ~Dr. Peat, http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ti ... ogen.shtml

    "There are two kinds of enzyme that produce estrogen. Aromatase converts male hormones into estrogen. Beta-glucuronidase converts the inactive estrogen-glucuronides into active estrogen. The healthy liver inactivates practically all the estrogen that reaches it, mostly by combining it with the “sugar acid,” glucuronic acid. This makes the estrogen water soluble, and it is quickly eliminated in the urine. But when it passes through inflamed tissue, these tissues contain large amounts of beta-glucuronidase, which will remove the glucuronic acid, leaving the pure estrogen to accumulate in the tissue." ~Dr. Peat, http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ti ... ogen.shtml
     
  20. Gabriel

    Gabriel Member

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    Hey guys, we have now opened a small German Ray Peat Forum! It is not meant as an replacement of the main Ray Peat Forum in any way, but as an addition for local questions (e.g. where to find the best products) and for all only-german-speaking Ray Peaters (if such people exist) :)

    Check it out: www.raypeatforum.de
     
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