Raising Serum Androgens Using DHEA, Pregnenolone, And Vitamin K

[ecstatichamster]

The in vitro studies found that DHEA was optimal in concentrations of 100μM, which translated to about 2mg - 3mg when applied to testicles. Maybe higher dose would work too, as the study did not talk about 100μM saturating the system somehow, but I think the estrogen conversion factor should not be ignored. The gonads do have high expression of aromatase and it is for a good reason - to form a negative feedback loop on testosterone synthesis and if too much is formed to lower the production through the conversion into estrogen. I don't think there is such a danger for pregnenolone so pregnenolone can probably be used in higher doses but the effects are likely to flatten out at some point due to enzyme saturation. I don't know what the saturable concentration for pregnenolone would be but it is likely that it will be below 10mg per dose. Even the prostate, which is very steroid hungry, seems to not be able to process more than 10mg pregnenolone at a time. But you can try with higher pregnenolone, as it is safe and the only way to find out for sure.
Having supraphysiolgical levels of T and DHT is OK as long as the ratio between them is such that it does not result in too high or too low estrogen levels, and the higher the T/DHT levels the harder the estrogen level becomes to control. If T predominates then you will form too much estrogen as the organism readily forms estrogen form testosterone as part of the negative feedback mechanism I mentioned above. So, libido will tank and even gyno may form. If DHT predominates, then estrogen will get too low and libido will also tank but at least you will probably look like a Gerard Butler from "300". So, for me at least the T/DHT close to the upper limit of the range is good since it does not take much effort to keep there, has no observable side effects, and does not freak out my doctor although he does not like the DHT being higher than the 50% percentile.
But if you want to experiment, I don't see why not, by using higher pregnenolone doses.

you're still going to doctors, LOL? @haidut

I'm so done with doctors. Unless I get into an auto accident I'm not going to the doctor. I still do see the dentist for routine cleanings (no x-rays) but that is probably unnecessary too.

 

[haidut]

Lol this explains a lot. I knew about androsterone's pheromone effects and so I applied it before parties and the reactions I got where strange to say the least. This one girl specifically kept smelling my armpit (where I applied) like it was coke (a bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea). I don't know if it upped my game but it did make for an interesting night. Guess too much androsterone.

Dude, if a girl keeps smelling your armpit you have already rounded up second base
Smell and touch are the most sexual of senses, and smell is more important for mating because it can act at a distance. A true male is supposed to emit musky odor all the time. Not sure if you ever tried boar meat but if you then you'd know what I mean. All of these perfumes destroy the sexual cues we emit all the time. A bad smell only forms under the influence of bacteria. There are studies with humans on antibiotics showing they never get stenchy. Not that I advocate doing that instead of being hygienic, but there is a reason animals don't take showers. Even Ray said washing yourself with soap every day is an endocrine disruptor, and he meant the washing itself, not the toxins in soap which are a whole separate topic.

 

[haidut]

Have you noticed other males being very...i guess mean or rude, or especially aggressive towards you? I've noticed since I started using it other guys will barely talk to me or look me in the eyes. I sat next to a guy in class who I'd had a few conversation with previously and he literally got up and left lol...hopefully its not something else I didn't think this would be the case but I'm not sure

I think you can apply too much though maybe. I started to notice a very powerful odor from my pits even a few days after I stopped using it-not like b.o. it was like waves of musk and concentrated mammal power

@haidut any ideas for a very powerful peat-inspired deodorant?...seems baking soda, occasional vodka and coconut oil isn't cutting it anymore lol

This stuff is good though. Rats like it better than 11-keto which was too stimulating even at a drop for them. Seems to have some overlapping relaxing effects with progesterone like you said but not as sedating

If the smell is the muskiness of androsterone then it is a good thing. And yes, expect that at doses of several milligrams a day you will emit musky odor and males/females will react to it. Not always in a positive manner, but I have noticed that the ones that do react negatively have high estrogen (both males and females). It's almost like these hormones are antagonistic even at behavioral level and come into clash with each other. Other high androgen-males or high-progesterone females usually react quite well. It is a blatant lie that high androgen males will get into fights with each other. High androgens generate calm and assertive manners, not aggression. Aggression is due to estrogen and serotonin.
High-progesterone females may smell your armpit, like @Constatine said in a previous post And as @Regina said in another post, the same may happen to women using androsterone - they may get hit on by other females

 

[haidut]

em may gawd, what must my aikido partners think of me with this scent? I'm so embarrassed (being a girl and all).

If it is a guy he may treat you like another male. If it is a girl, she may want to stay on the mat a bit longer

 

[haidut]

Yikes. 300mg of K2?????

It's not 300mg, the oral dose comes down to about 1 mg/kg for a human, which is high but is in line with all the human trials in Asia for osteoporosis. They all used 1 mg/kg but because most of the elderly women they tried it on did not weigh more than 50kg the dose they stuck to was 45mg daily for simplicity. The West took that to mean 45mg daily is what should be used for everybody, when in reality it is 1mg/kg. Still, 1 mg/kg orally daily is much more expensive then 2mg - 5mg daily.

 

[haidut]

Ok my face really puffs up when I apply pansterone to the scrotum. How can I (or my rat as he has the same problems) lower estrogen to where my features remain sharp while using pansterone?

I do it by adding a little androsterone. It keeps estrogen low even if you overdose the DHEA a bit. In fact I have a mix with pregnenoloneHEA:androsterone in 11 ratio that I use topically and I find that with it I can exceed the daily limit of 15mg DHEA without getting the estrogenic symptoms. But I think most people don't need to go above the 15mg DHEA as it is more than enough to bring up androgens to the upper limit.

 

[haidut]

This is excellent stuff, Haidut. I noticed ever since I started supplementing K2 (and started Magnesium around the same time) that noctural erections started happening almost daily, a frequency I never even experienced as a teen. I was wondered if K2 could boost Testosterone, but it looked like an oral dose of about 300mg was needed. The local topical application is really exciting!

Yep, I think all quinones can raise testosterone, including emodin and maybe even the lapachones. T3 is another chemical that has very androgenic effects on the gonads. Btw, the oral dose for humans was about 1mg/kg based on that same study. So, most people would need 65mg - 90mg daily, which is still high but doable. Still, the 2mg- 5mg daily using scrotal application makes it affordable for pretty much everybody.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Not sure if you ever tried boar meat but if you then you'd know what I mean. All of these perfumes destroy the sexual cues we emit all the time. A bad smell only forms under the influence of bacteria. There are studies with humans on antibiotics showing they never get stenchy. .

I mentioned this before, but I noticed a decrease in body odor when getting de-ironed through blood donation, and iron is excellent at promoting bacterial growth. I noticed gym clothes went from smelling nasty after use, to simply musty or musky.

So, maybe the three step process is check and lower iron, boost androgens, and then reduce or eliminate soap and perfume use?

 

[haidut]

I mentioned this before, but I noticed a decrease in body odor when getting de-ironed through blood donation, and iron is excellent at promoting bacterial growth. I noticed gym clothes went from smelling nasty after use, to simply musty or musky.

So, maybe the three step process is check and lower iron, boost androgens, and then reduce or eliminate soap and perfume use?

That sounds like a good plan. Perfumes also have some nasty chemicals that are directly carcinogenic, so yet another reason to avoid them. The attractive smell for a male should be one that turns females on, and perfumes rarely do that. There was a study that found the only benefit of perfumes was it made very unattractive people look a bit more acceptable but it had detrimental effect on average and good looing people.

 

[Healthia]

I'm very interested in trying out this protocol to increase androgens but I'd like to get some feedback as my situation is a bit unique in the fact that my estradiol are very low. My main complaint is that my libido has tanked pretty bad. I've never uploaded a file with a post so this will be a test to see how it works. Any feedback on my lab work and how to correct my levels would be much appreciated.

 

[haidut]

I'm very interested in trying out this protocol to increase androgens but I'd like to get some feedback as my situation is a bit unique in the fact that my estradiol are very low. My main complaint is that my libido has tanked pretty bad. I've never uploaded a file with a post so this will be a test to see how it works. Any feedback on my lab work and how to correct my levels would be much appreciated.

Can you please start a separate thread on this? You can link to this tread if you want.

 

[Healthia]

Sure! For those interested I stated a new thread here.

 

[Regina]

If it is a guy he may treat you like another male. If it is a girl, she may want to stay on the mat a bit longer :)

Oh crap - I'm gonna get beat up.
Indeed, after class (after I bowed out off the mat and was stepping into the dressing room), one of the yudanshas last night pulled me back onto the mat to throw me around. (I'm pretty sure he's gay) He was throwing me hard and very varied. Everyone stopped and watched (like wtf is he doing to her?). I stood up a last time and he said, "Let's grab swords!!" I told him thx but I had to go. The guy who had earlier said "whoa, maybe less caffeine next time" was a godan but he didn't have any eyebrows.
Nice guy but clearly very hypothyroid.
Yikes. I'm glad I feel stronger, less fear, more assertive on the mat but now I'm kinda scared to go tonight. I really a chicken at heart.

I agree with tankasnowgod re: iron. My gi (uniform) smells like a feral boar after class

 

[DaveFoster]

The in vitro studies found that DHEA was optimal in concentrations of 100μM, which translated to about 2mg - 3mg when applied to testicles. Maybe higher dose would work too, as the study did not talk about 100μM saturating the system somehow, but I think the estrogen conversion factor should not be ignored. The gonads do have high expression of aromatase and it is for a good reason - to form a negative feedback loop on testosterone synthesis and if too much is formed to lower the production through the conversion into estrogen. I don't think there is such a danger for pregnenolone so pregnenolone can probably be used in higher doses but the effects are likely to flatten out at some point due to enzyme saturation. I don't know what the saturable concentration for pregnenolone would be but it is likely that it will be below 10mg per dose. Even the prostate, which is very steroid hungry, seems to not be able to process more than 10mg pregnenolone at a time. But you can try with higher pregnenolone, as it is safe and the only way to find out for sure.
Having supraphysiolgical levels of T and DHT is OK as long as the ratio between them is such that it does not result in too high or too low estrogen levels, and the higher the T/DHT levels the harder the estrogen level becomes to control. If T predominates then you will form too much estrogen as the organism readily forms estrogen form testosterone as part of the negative feedback mechanism I mentioned above. So, libido will tank and even gyno may form. If DHT predominates, then estrogen will get too low and libido will also tank but at least you will probably look like a Gerard Butler from "300". So, for me at least the T/DHT close to the upper limit of the range is good since it does not take much effort to keep there, has no observable side effects, and does not freak out my doctor although he does not like the DHT being higher than the 50% percentile.
But if you want to experiment, I don't see why not, by using higher pregnenolone doses.

Awesome info; thanks haidut. Gerard Butler here I come.

 

[Constatine]

Wow this really works for emotional resiliency. Yesterday my car ran out of batteries and I was stuck for two hours, on the way home I took a turn too tight and crashed my car, and later I crushed my hand. But despite it being the worst day of the year I barely cared. Hopefully today will be better though else I'm becoming a recluse :)

 

[haidut]

Wow this really works for emotional resiliency. Yesterday my car ran out of batteries and I was stuck for two hours, on the way home I took a turn too tight and crashed my car, and later I crushed my hand. But despite it being the worst day of the year I barely cared. Hopefully today will be better though else I'm becoming a recluse :)

I find androsterone has the same effect on me. To the point where my relatives get very irritated when I remain calm in nervous situations. I think people often try to get on your nerves just to test you if you care (I know, it's sick) and if you act calm you are asking for a s**tstorm. So, use androsterone judiciously, according to the situation/context

 

[Regina]

Wow this really works for emotional resiliency. Yesterday my car ran out of batteries and I was stuck for two hours, on the way home I took a turn too tight and crashed my car, and later I crushed my hand. But despite it being the worst day of the year I barely cared. Hopefully today will be better though else I'm becoming a recluse :)

Same here.
There is so much chaos in my life right now. Literally everything is in a ludicrous shitstorm. But I barely care. Just calmly TCB with a "if it happens, good; if not, so what" attitude.
Yeah, it could get me in trouble at the dojo with people who want to. Game face is generally good (keeps you generally off the psychopaths radar) but cocky gets you smacked down.

 

[Blossom]

Blossom,
Do you think the re-appearance of a period is a sign of vitality or something going wrong?
I thought I finally had my last one maybe 6 or 7 months ago. I've been Peating steadily during this time. A few days ago, I got my period. Just like ole times: light cramps, feeling thick and followed by regular flow for 3-4 days and feeling leaner. I recently turned 55.
Good? Bad? Normal? Thx!

Sorry I missed this Regina. I can't imagine how that happened with it being so quiet around here lately.
I tend to think it's either a good sign or just a one off sort of thing since you're at the upper age range of when menopause normally occurs. Officially menopause is "diagnosed" only after one complete year of no period. It will be interesting to see if you keep having a regular period. Please keep us posted.

 

[Regina]

Sorry I missed this Regina. I can't imagine how that happened with it being so quiet around here lately.
I tend to think it's either a good sign or just a one off sort of thing since you're at the upper age range of when menopause normally occurs. Officially menopause is "diagnosed" only after one complete year of no period. It will be interesting to see if you keep having a regular period. Please keep us posted.

Thx Blossom. I'm marking the date now. Cheers.

 

[Blossom]

Thx Blossom. I'm marking the date now. Cheers.

This is so exciting!!!