Raising Serum Androgens Using DHEA, Pregnenolone, And Vitamin K

[haidut]

If you need a Before & After test subject (other than yourself) I would be happy to help out. I had a pretty in depth hormone panel run just last month because my libido has recently tanked and I'm looking for ways (other than anabolic steriods) to increase hormones to put me back on track. I live in the Dulles Corridor area so if the address listed on Idea Labs is correct, we are within close physical proximity.

Will keep that in mind, thanks. Where do you get your labs - through your doctor?

 

[Healthia]

Yep, thanks for clarifying it. It is androsterone and not the infamous "Andro" many athletes (ab)used in the 1990s.

Thanks for clarifying Haidut. I have read that androsterone is also used in many pheromone products on the market. Makes me wonder what effect all the different pheromones ingredients have on the users who apply these products to their skin.

 

[Healthia]

Will keep that in mind, thanks. Where do you get your labs - through your doctor?

Yes. I believe the lab company that was used this last time was Sunrise and the time before was good ole' LabCorp.

 

[haidut]

Yes. I believe the lab company that was used this last time was Sunrise and the time before was good ole' LabCorp.

OK, thanks.

 

[haidut]

Thanks for clarifying Haidut. I have read that androsterone is also used in many pheromone products on the market. Makes me wonder what effect all the different pheromones ingredients have on the users who apply these products to their skin.

Most pheromone products have no more than a few mg androsterone per entire bottle. As far as a pheromone it is believed that only a whiff of it is enough to prime the female for action (Lol, I sound like a veterinarian or something).
So, the users are likely not getting much systemic effect. Androsterone is not cheap to come by in the USA, but the pheromone products sell a tiny amount at a ridiculous price - sometimes as high as $100/mg.

 

[BastiFuntasty]

Do you think thyroid would also be beneficial here? Just a short look at pubmed showed nice potential of thyroid on leydig cell regeneration.

So if a hypo man would apply it on his scrotum instead somewhere else the benefits could be more profound.
Problem here is possibly that thyroid comes in so small mcg amounts.

 

[haidut]

Do you think thyroid would also be beneficial here? Just a short look at pubmed showed nice potential of thyroid on leydig cell regeneration.

So if a hypo man would apply it on his scrotum instead somewhere else the benefits could be more profound.
Problem here is possibly that thyroid comes in so small mcg amounts.

Absolutely, it should help. It is not a problem that it comes in microgram amounts, that is the physiological dose and the studies with thyroid probably did not use micromolar concnetrations like the ones with steroids. If you have some studies please post here and I can extract the relevant info.
For those that do not want to use thyroid or don't have access to it, a close surrogate would be caffeine, which as one of the studies above showed, has an effect on cAMP and thus lower dose of vitamin K could be used.

 

[Constatine]

Most pheromone products have no more than a few mg androsterone per entire bottle. As far as a pheromone it is believed that only a whiff of it is enough to prime the female for action (Lol, I sound like a veterinarian or something).
So, the users are likely not getting much systemic effect. Androsterone is not cheap to come by in the USA, but the pheromone products sell a tiny amount at a ridiculous price - sometimes as high as $100/mg.

Lol this explains a lot. I knew about androsterone's pheromone effects and so I applied it before parties and the reactions I got where strange to say the least. This one girl specifically kept smelling my armpit (where I applied) like it was coke (a bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea). I don't know if it upped my game but it did make for an interesting night. Guess too much androsterone.

 

[Constatine]

(ignore this I keep re-posting instead of editing)

 

[meatbag]

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[tankasnowgod]

Do you have any idea if this could be helpful for females if used on the labia majora? I've read in other threads here that vaginal dhea is supposed to be helpful for dryness and prolapse but the dmso seems like it would be too irritating for direct vaginal application IMO. I think it is difficult to get dhea to dissolve in oil. Speculating only here but *If applying it in the general vicinity is good enough I think pansterone might be a possible option for females concerned with preserving or restoring vaginal health.* It could be a worthwhile experiment.

If you decide to experiment, I would recommend starting off on the low end, like with one drop on any sensitive skin. I tried a full 8 drops on Pansterone on my scrotum early on, and YEEEOWWW! Let's just say I had a feeling very similar to the famous Jerry Lee Lewis song. I noticed the same "warming" feeling when using DMSO on other areas that also have thin skin. I was able to build back up to about 4-5 drops over time without it reoccuring. The warm feeling comes and leaves quickly, so even spacing drops out 15-60 seconds apart would probably avoid any intense heat.

 

[DaveFoster]

not pump T/DHT to supraphysiological levels as bodybuilders do. But even then it should work.

Do you think 10 to 15 mg of DHEA applied to the scrotum (as with Pansterone) would be too much; are supraphysiological androgens a problem? I know you've said yours were above range for quite a while after using Pansterone.

 

[Regina]

Lol this explains a lot. I knew about androsterone's pheromone effects and so I applied it before parties and the reactions I got where strange to say the least. This one girl specifically kept smelling my armpit (where I applied) like it was coke (a bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea). I don't know if it upped my game but it did make for an interesting night. Guess too much androsterone.

em may gawd, what must my aikido partners think of me with this scent? I'm so embarrassed (being a girl and all).

 

[tankasnowgod]

This is excellent stuff, Haidut. I noticed ever since I started supplementing K2 (and started Magnesium around the same time) that noctural erections started happening almost daily, a frequency I never even experienced as a teen. I was wondered if K2 could boost Testosterone, but it looked like an oral dose of about 300mg was needed. The local topical application is really exciting!

 

[ecstatichamster]

This is excellent stuff, Haidut. I noticed ever since I started supplementing K2 (and started Magnesium around the same time) that noctural erections started happening almost daily, a frequency I never even experienced as a teen. I was wondered if K2 could boost Testosterone, but it looked like an oral dose of about 300mg was needed. The local topical application is really exciting!

Yikes. 300mg of K2?????

 

[Constatine]

em may gawd, what must my aikido partners think of me with this scent? I'm so embarrassed (being a girl and all).

Lol

 

[Constatine]

Ok my face really puffs up when I apply pansterone to the scrotum. How can I (or my rat as he has the same problems) lower estrogen to where my features remain sharp while using pansterone?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Yikes. 300mg of K2?????

That's what I remember, it would have been super expensive. 1-5mg topical on the scrotum seems much cheaper, and much more doable.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Blossom,
Do you think the re-appearance of a period is a sign of vitality or something going wrong?
I thought I finally had my last one maybe 6 or 7 months ago. I've been Peating steadily during this time. A few days ago, I got my period. Just like ole times: light cramps, feeling thick and followed by regular flow for 3-4 days and feeling leaner. I recently turned 55.
Good? Bad? Normal? Thx!

While I'm a male, I would think keeping your period (or the re-appearance of it) would be a good sign, and be a good indicator of vitality and fertility. In your case, I would think it's a sign the dietary and other changes you made over the past 7 months or so are positive ones.

Also, if you've looked into the issues with excess iron, menstruation is a natural form of protection against excess iron accumulation. The iron theory is likely the reason why pre-menopausal women have lower incidence of heart disease and most cancers than their similarly aged male counterparts, have the lowest risk group for those diseases overall, and why those risks shoot up after menopause.

 

[haidut]

Do you think 10 to 15 mg of DHEA applied to the scrotum (as with Pansterone) would be too much; are supraphysiological androgens a problem? I know you've said yours were above range for quite a while after using Pansterone.

The in vitro studies found that DHEA was optimal in concentrations of 100μM, which translated to about 2mg - 3mg when applied to testicles. Maybe higher dose would work too, as the study did not talk about 100μM saturating the system somehow, but I think the estrogen conversion factor should not be ignored. The gonads do have high expression of aromatase and it is for a good reason - to form a negative feedback loop on testosterone synthesis and if too much is formed to lower the production through the conversion into estrogen. I don't think there is such a danger for pregnenolone so pregnenolone can probably be used in higher doses but the effects are likely to flatten out at some point due to enzyme saturation. I don't know what the saturable concentration for pregnenolone would be but it is likely that it will be below 10mg per dose. Even the prostate, which is very steroid hungry, seems to not be able to process more than 10mg pregnenolone at a time. But you can try with higher pregnenolone, as it is safe and the only way to find out for sure.
Having supraphysiolgical levels of T and DHT is OK as long as the ratio between them is such that it does not result in too high or too low estrogen levels, and the higher the T/DHT levels the harder the estrogen level becomes to control. If T predominates then you will form too much estrogen as the organism readily forms estrogen form testosterone as part of the negative feedback mechanism I mentioned above. So, libido will tank and even gyno may form. If DHT predominates, then estrogen will get too low and libido will also tank but at least you will probably look like a Gerard Butler from "300". So, for me at least the T/DHT close to the upper limit of the range is good since it does not take much effort to keep there, has no observable side effects, and does not freak out my doctor although he does not like the DHT being higher than the 50% percentile.
But if you want to experiment, I don't see why not, by using higher pregnenolone doses.