Vitamin K2 Directly Inhibits New Estrogen Synthesis

[haidut]

There are some studies on vitamin K2 (MK-4) being aromatase inhibitor and also a study showing in higher doses it increased testosterone levels. This study shows that vitamin K2 (MK-4) directly inhibits the enzyme responsible for the conversion of DHEA into estrogen, so maybe adding some vitamin K (MK-4) to the DHEA regimen will make DHEA supplementation safer. However, no word on dosing.

Vitamin K2 binds 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 4 and modulates estrogen metabolism. - PubMed - NCBI

"...The results indicated that 17beta hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase 4, apolipoportein E, and 40S ribosomal proteins S7 and S13 might be the candidates of the vitamin K-binding proteins. Subsequent experiments showed that vitamin K2 binds 17beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 4 and decreases the intracellular estradiol:estrone ratio, which resulted in the inhibition of the amount of estrogen receptor alpha-binding to its target DNA. These results suggest a possible novel role for vitamin K in modulating estrogen function."

 

[narouz]

Thanks, haidut!

 

[north]

Awesome!

 

[sladerunner69]

The only economically viable k-2 I have found, has the first "other ingredient" being soybean oil

I wonder if it's enough to be counter productive.... Also Peat has stated k-1 t also be effective because k-1 is converted to k-2 as needed through various pathways.

Not to mention a bottle of k1 at gnc costs about 3 buckaroos where k-2 can be more like 30 :2cents

 

[Spondive]

Where can you get K1 at higher doses..most are in the mcg amounts...the only ones I found are for animals in the 25 and 50 mg range

 

[Murtaza]

This study shows that vitamin E directly inhibits the enzyme responsible for the conversion of DHEA into estrogen

Is this a typo? Shouldnt it be K instead of E? @haidut

 

[Arrade]

Excellent
@haidut can you overdose on Vitmain K? I was considering taking 95mg daily for an extended period

 

[haidut]

Is this a typo? Shouldnt it be K instead of E? @haidut

Yes, it was a typo. Thanks for pointing it out, it is fixed now.

 

[haidut]

Excellent
@haidut can you overdose on Vitmain K? I was considering taking 95mg daily for an extended period

Well, you can overdose on anything but the LD50 for vitamin K2 is really high which shows it is non-toxic. The studies in rats that used very high doses equivalent to grams per day in a human did not find any issues and human studies have used 45mg x 3 (135mg) daily for more than 12 months without major issues. The officially recommended dose by the original studies in Japan for osteoporosis and prostate cancer says the recommended dose is 1mg/kg, so for most people that would be more than 45mg daily. The 45mg dose became (unfortunately) quoted as the recommended one since the studies for osteoporosis used elderly Asian women whose weight rarely exceeded 50kg. Japanese studies continue to mention the 1mg/kg dose but the West has somehow convinced itself that the dose is 45mg daily regardless of weight/size, which is obviously not true for any drug including K2.

 

[Arrade]

Well, you can overdose on anything but the LD50 for vitamin K2 is really high which shows it is non-toxic. The studies in rats that used very high doses equivalent to grams per day in a human did not find any issues and human studies have used 45mg x 3 (135mg) daily for more than 12 months without major issues. The officially recommended dose by the original studies in Japan for osteoporosis and prostate cancer says the recommended dose is 1mg/kg, so for most people that would be more than 45mg daily. The 45mg dose became (unfortunately) quoted as the recommended one since the studies for osteoporosis used elderly Asian women whose weight rarely exceeded 50kg. Japanese studies continue to mention the 1mg/kg dose but the West has somehow convinced itself that the dose is 45mg daily regardless of weight/size, which is obviously not true for any drug including K2.

Fascinating, thanks for the thoroughness of your response. Since I weigh 80 kg I will supplement around 75 mg - 90 mg.

 

[johnwester130]

Fascinating, thanks for the thoroughness of your response. Since I weigh 80 kg I will supplement around 75 mg - 90 mg.

of k2 ??

a bottle wouldn't last long on that amount

 

[Arrade]

of k2 ??

a bottle wouldn't last long on that amount

Of Mk4 specifically.
Amazon holds a brand of nutraceuticals called “Relentless Improvement” and for $30 you can have a month supply of 45mg.
I don’t have osteoporosis though and will continue to use the LEF complex, so perhaps 45mg for a few months to note any effects.

 

[johnwester130]

Of Mk4 specifically.
Amazon holds a brand of nutraceuticals called “Relentless Improvement” and for $30 you can have a month supply of 45mg.
I don’t have osteoporosis though and will continue to use the LEF complex, so perhaps 45mg for a few months to note any effects.

this sounds very expensive to do

you could save more money with topical applications which stay in the blood longer

 

[Arrade]

this sounds very expensive to do

you could save more money with topical applications which stay in the blood longer

I am interested in that, I wonder if it would help with hairloss?
I know haidut sells kuinon. Could you point me to any threads that shows it stays in the blood longer/increased efficacy?

 

[johnwester130]

I am interested in that, I wonder if it would help with hairloss?
I know haidut sells kuinon. Could you point me to any threads that shows it stays in the blood longer/increased efficacy?

in the kuinone thread, it says topical application of mk4 stays in the blood longer, but the solvent is also important to achieve this

 

[Arrade]

in the kuinone thread, it says topical application of mk4 stays in the blood longer, but the solvent is also important to achieve this

I'll look into it, thanks :)

 

[oceantree]

Interesting thread, recently started taking MK4 and MK7

 

[BigChad]

There are some studies on vitamin K2 (MK-4) being aromatase inhibitor and also a study showing in higher doses it increased testosterone levels. This study shows that vitamin K2 (MK-4) directly inhibits the enzyme responsible for the conversion of DHEA into estrogen, so maybe adding some vitamin K (MK-4) to the DHEA regimen will make DHEA supplementation safer. However, no word on dosing.

Vitamin K2 binds 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 4 and modulates estrogen metabolism. - PubMed - NCBI

"...The results indicated that 17beta hydroxy steroid dehydrogenase 4, apolipoportein E, and 40S ribosomal proteins S7 and S13 might be the candidates of the vitamin K-binding proteins. Subsequent experiments showed that vitamin K2 binds 17beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase 4 and decreases the intracellular estradiol:estrone ratio, which resulted in the inhibition of the amount of estrogen receptor alpha-binding to its target DNA. These results suggest a possible novel role for vitamin K in modulating estrogen function."

One thing i don't get regarding this, ive seen people on here mention it and noticed myself, k2 worsens autoimmune/hypothyroid symptoms. It caused worsened hair loss/thinning. I feel like similar to vitamim A this is something to be careful with if your thyroid is not running reasonably well before starting. Maybe its due to the way it stimulates the immune system. Things like selenium, zinc, b vitamins, E, C, D3 seem to have no effect or improve hair, while A, iodine, and k2 seem to worsen hair loss/autoimmunity. Olive leaf/ashwaganda also worsened it and those are immune boosters i believe.

 

[BigChad]

Why are several people reporting mk4 causing hair loss or receding hairline? Is it simply due to preexisting hypothyroidism worsening. I doubt its that it lowers estrogen too low

 

[bdawg]

First, as we show here, treatment with VK2 results in reduced androgen receptor expression. Previous studies have shown that the androgen receptor is essential for cell viability and proliferation of prostate cancer cells [38]. Another possible explanation for the reduction in cell viability noted with VK2 treatment is the inhibition of AKT activation. The AKT activation plays a central role in tumorigenesis, promoting cell growth and survival by suppressing apoptosis [39]. Previous studies suggest that AKT signaling may play a key role in prostate cancer progression, allowing cells to continue to proliferate in an androgen deprived state [40]. Increased AKT phosphorylation has also been associated with higher gleason grade, advanced stage and poor prognosis [41]. Recent studies also show that AR and AKT pathways cross-regulate each other through feedback mechanism and that inhibition of both pathways leads to synergistic reductions of cell proliferation