Raising Serum Androgens Using DHEA, Pregnenolone, And Vitamin K

[haidut]

Have you tried taking it orally?

Yes, orally it is probably more beneficial for the liver just like vitamin K oral vs. topical. But other than that I did not see much difference.

 

[haidut]

Just wondering: If one wants to get to 3 mg DHEA, 10 mg pregnenolone and let's say 3mg K2 in one "serving" using haidut's product that would be about 5 drops pansterone, 8 drops Stressnon and 2 drops Kuinone,so altogether about 15 drops. If one is applying 15 drops on the scortum I guess that takes a while to dry. So I am interested when do you apply that on your scortum and how long do you wait for it to dry before puting your clothes on. I guess I would have to be naked for at least an hour for 15 drops on my balls to dry.

You can put some on the penis as well. It should be able to handle 30% - 50% of the dose and it is almost as good as applying to the scrotum. Most scrotums can probably handle 6-8 drops (which then have to be rubbed) before getting soaked and the penis can handle the rest. If the penis is...ahem...perky, then it is even better because when you apply the drops in that state and then let the penis "go back to sleep" the skin shrinking skin will prevent the liquid that was rubbed from getting to the cloths or even dripping off.

 

[haidut]

Has anyone noticed increased muscle growth using this method?

I noticed more muscle fullness and hardness. Not sure how much of that is actual growth though. I do a few series of pushups weekly so maybe that is also contributing but it is definitely not a heavy workout.

 

[tyler]

I believe this method of supplementing has been a huge contributor to my progress in hypothyroid/hypogonadism recovery. I have increased my blood levels of T and had some pretty significant body composition changes in a very short time. I go into detail and posted a photo in a seperate thread.
Becoming A Man With Peat And Haidut

 

[ThinkPerceive]

I've been going over this thread with great interest, taking notes, and while I haven't had much result yet, I'm hopeful long time (DHEA plus Androsterone on scrotum, small amount of oral pregnenolone). I have two very different questions about this:

1) I may have primary hypogonadism - one testicle is pretty much gone, many years ago. One week it swelled up big and red, there was a little blood leaking, and then it went away and I didn't think about it. And then over the years it shrank to almost nothing. While my T has tested bottom-of-reference, I'm not sure the missing testicle is the proximate cause - and "experts say" that one testicle can handle normal T production anyway.

Does the above information in this thread change because of that? I see secondary hypo mentioned often - but never (?) primary.

2) My girlfriend is interested in the DHEA + Preg combo. HOWEVER, she's just not going to do drops and making capsules is the way to go for her. Because it's oral how do the amounts change to be roughly equivalent to topical? I'm thinking 5mg DHEA and 50mg pregnenolone, 2x/day (more times per day, the less likely it'll happen - above all I want this EASY for her). She's pretty healthy, a mom in her 40's, has a fair bit of stress.

It's the pregnenolone info that confuses me. Studies say that oral pregnenolone has excellent absorption - which would suggest just 5mg per dose would be fine. But Dr. Peat suggests 100mg/day. Other studies suggest that the low AND high dose increases allopregnenolone which is Not Good.

So, in a general way, how to best dose the ingredients orally instead of topically? I know getting personal diagnosis isn't an option, and I'm mostly looking for insight anyway, not a prescription

Thank you!

 

[haidut]

I've been going over this thread with great interest, taking notes, and while I haven't had much result yet, I'm hopeful long time (DHEA plus Androsterone on scrotum, small amount of oral pregnenolone). I have two very different questions about this:

1) I may have primary hypogonadism - one testicle is pretty much gone, many years ago. One week it swelled up big and red, there was a little blood leaking, and then it went away and I didn't think about it. And then over the years it shrank to almost nothing. While my T has tested bottom-of-reference, I'm not sure the missing testicle is the proximate cause - and "experts say" that one testicle can handle normal T production anyway.

Does the above information in this thread change because of that? I see secondary hypo mentioned often - but never (?) primary.

2) My girlfriend is interested in the DHEA + Preg combo. HOWEVER, she's just not going to do drops and making capsules is the way to go for her. Because it's oral how do the amounts change to be roughly equivalent to topical? I'm thinking 5mg DHEA and 50mg pregnenolone, 2x/day (more times per day, the less likely it'll happen - above all I want this EASY for her). She's pretty healthy, a mom in her 40's, has a fair bit of stress.

It's the pregnenolone info that confuses me. Studies say that oral pregnenolone has excellent absorption - which would suggest just 5mg per dose would be fine. But Dr. Peat suggests 100mg/day. Other studies suggest that the low AND high dose increases allopregnenolone which is Not Good.

So, in a general way, how to best dose the ingredients orally instead of topically? I know getting personal diagnosis isn't an option, and I'm mostly looking for insight anyway, not a prescription :)

Thank you!

Can you please ask these questions in a separate thread? They are mostly not related to the topic of this thread. As far as the part that it is related - i.e. hypogonadism - as long as there is one testicle that is OK and functional the above approach should have some effect. But if there are no functional Leydig cells in the scrotum then it is probably a moot point to apply any steroid to the scrotum. You'd be better off applying to other skin areas so that the steroids can go into the bloodstream and get converted in peripheral tissues. This thread and approach is greared to stimulating gonads to produce androgens from direct precursors like pregnenolone and DHEA, and these precursors also happen to stimulate the necessary enzymes needed for androgen synthesis.

 

[Ritchie]

@haidut would there be any benefit in adding androsterone into this mix, or is it best not to complicate it? If so, what sort of amount? Thanks in advance

 

[haidut]

@haidut would there be any benefit in adding androsterone into this mix, or is it best not to complicate it? If so, what sort of amount? Thanks in advance

I think this was already asked earlier in the thread. Unless you think you have high estrogen probably no need to add androsterone. It's main function in the gonads would be as an aromatase inhibitor. The Leydig cells probably won't turn much of it into DHT. Other organs are bigger synthesizer of DHT from androsterone (i.e. prostate, liver, skin, etc).

 

[Constatine]

Dude, if a girl keeps smelling your armpit you have already rounded up second base :)
Smell and touch are the most sexual of senses, and smell is more important for mating because it can act at a distance. A true male is supposed to emit musky odor all the time. Not sure if you ever tried boar meat but if you then you'd know what I mean. All of these perfumes destroy the sexual cues we emit all the time. A bad smell only forms under the influence of bacteria. There are studies with humans on antibiotics showing they never get stenchy. Not that I advocate doing that instead of being hygienic, but there is a reason animals don't take showers. Even Ray said washing yourself with soap every day is an endocrine disruptor, and he meant the washing itself, not the toxins in soap which are a whole separate topic.

Interesting. I just recently had a girl tell me I smell good, so it is a perceived trait and not entirely subconscious. No doubt this is due to a combination of androsterone and pansterone. Perhaps I can go a few days only washing my hair and see if this effect potentiates. Also I just received your vitamin k product and I must say that I think it's effects on testosterone are even greater than that of pansterone. I might get a blood test soon out of curiosity as I feel very androgenic.

 

[haidut]

Interesting. I just recently had a girl tell me I smell good, so it is a perceived trait and not entirely subconscious. No doubt this is due to a combination of androsterone and pansterone. Perhaps I can go a few days only washing my hair and see if this effect potentiates. Also I just received your vitamin k product and I must say that I think it's effects on testosterone are even greater than that of pansterone. I might get a blood test soon out of curiosity as I feel very androgenic.

Please do the blood test if possible, we need more evidence like that in the thread. I think everybody here will appreciate hearing about the results.

 

[Healthia]

Started experiment. I will be running labs in a few weeks to report outcome, however I want to be sure that I am applying the correct ratios. From reading through the posts and studies I gathered that for the test subject, with a daily caffeine intake of 400mg, the proper dose would be 8 drops PanSterone and 2 drops of the Kuinone?

Or could the application be greater since the test subject has extremely low estradiol and very well functioning thyroid?

Does body mass play into dosage? Test subject is 205 lbs with 20% fat.

 

[haidut]

Started experiment. I will be running labs in a few weeks to report outcome, however I want to be sure that I am applying the correct ratios. From reading through the posts and studies I gathered that for the test subject, with a daily caffeine intake of 400mg, the proper dose would be 8 drops PanSterone and 2 drops of the Kuinone?

Or could the application be greater since the test subject has extremely low estradiol and very well functioning thyroid?

Does body mass play into dosage? Test subject is 205 lbs with 20% fat.

The doses depend on testicle weight, as I outlined in the original post. So, the 8 drops of Pansterone can probably be split into 2 doses of 4 drops each if all is applied to the scrotum. The Kuinone dose sounds about right. If you do this for a week and do not feel suppression of libido or energy levels then you can probably increase the dose to 4 drops three times daily.

 

[Healthia]

The doses depend on testicle weight, as I outlined in the original post. So, the 8 drops of Pansterone can probably be split into 2 doses of 4 drops each if all is applied to the scrotum. The Kuinone dose sounds about right. If you do this for a week and do not feel suppression of libido or energy levels then you can probably increase the dose to 4 drops three times daily.

Why would there be a loss of libido?

 

[Healthia]

Also, I remember from a podcast that you did with Danny Roddy that vitamin A and cholesterol are important co-factors when taking pregnenolone. You had also mentioned one or two other co-factors during the interview but I cannot recall what they were.

 

[haidut]

You can raise steroid production to the point where the negative feedback mechanism kicks in. Apparently it can be triggered by either high estrogen (from DHEA conversion) or high androgens (again through conversion from pregnenolone or DHEA).

 

[Regina]

Interesting. I just recently had a girl tell me I smell good, so it is a perceived trait and not entirely subconscious. No doubt this is due to a combination of androsterone and pansterone. Perhaps I can go a few days only washing my hair and see if this effect potentiates. Also I just received your vitamin k product and I must say that I think it's effects on testosterone are even greater than that of pansterone. I might get a blood test soon out of curiosity as I feel very androgenic.

Scent most definitely is an attraction driver for me. I can honestly remember this from even my first child hood crushes. I even remember the scent of my first kiss. I both consciously and unconsciously notice it on every level. For me, it might be the most powerful thing that attracts me to a man.

 

[TheHound]

You can raise steroid production to the point where the negative feedback mechanism kicks in. Apparently it can be triggered by either high estrogen (from DHEA conversion) or high androgens (again through conversion from pregnenolone or DHEA).

is it a bad idea to take pansterone by itself after a workout? I was thinking the stress caused by the workout might make the dhea convert to estrogen. not sure though

 

[Constatine]

I am starting to feel very tired and even anxious after application of pansterone or kuinone. Why might this be? I doubt it's a negative feedback loop as it happens only after application.

 

[haidut]

I am starting to feel very tired and even anxious after application of pansterone or kuinone. Why might this be? I doubt it's a negative feedback loop as it happens only after application.

Pregnenolone seems to raise allopregnanolone in humans. If you read the Wiki page on it you will see that is has some pro-anxiety effects. I saw a study showing that it made men feel discontent and wired. In higher doses it was of course sedating like all GABA agonists but in lower doses it had what the studies called "paradoxical effects". That would be my guess, but if course there could be other things at play. I personally never got anxiety from Pansterone or Kuinone. Kuinone actually works like a benzo for me, makes me very calm and even sleepy.

 

[Constatine]

Pregnenolone seems to raise allopregnanolone in humans. If you read the Wiki page on it you will see that is has some pro-anxiety effects. I saw a study showing that it made men feel discontent and wired. In higher doses it was of course sedating like all GABA agonists but in lower doses it had what the studies called "paradoxical effects". That would be my guess, but if course there could be other things at play. I personally never got anxiety from Pansterone or Kuinone. Kuinone actually works like a benzo for me, makes me very calm and even sleepy.

I actually think the anxiety just stems from attempting to be active while tired due to the benzo like effects of Kuinone. It is very difficult to socialize while being so sedated. Guess I just won't take it before social events. Any idea why vitamin k applied to the scrotum would immediately induce sedation? Also just for fun how high do you think 2 drops Kuinone and 4 drops pansterone will shoot up one's testosterone by?