Post-SSRI Sleep Adaptations Discussion Thread

[logicalscout]

Hi All,

Having been on SSRI's for more than 5+ years, My body has gone through long term adaptations (I'll avoid use of the words poisin, damage) which I percieve to be negative.

The major one i'd like to discuss is the sleep issues (lack of refreshing sleep and no dreams). When I was on the SSRI's, I went through a sleep study and that found I had greatly reduced time in REM (Near 0-2%, Normal is 20%-25%).

Having had a enough of this, I've tapered off the drugs but have found the side effects to be persistent. Every morning I wake up without feeling the refreshed feeling I used to (pre SSRI's)

I know Ray does not recommend the use of exogenous melatonin... However I decided to try some.

I tried 2mg extended-release and found the following anecodotal findings:
- Increased libido (Possibly due to increased testosterone?)

"What really makes the results outstanding, though, is that melatonin was as potent as letrozole, the most potent antiaromatase inhibitor the publicly available pharmaceutical arsenal knows in suppressing cell proliferation, estradiol (E2) production and gene expression of CYP19A1, pS2andKi-67"

(Still can't post a link as i'm a new user, it is a Suppversity article)

- More refreshed feeling in the morning
- Increase in dreams
- Reduction in emotional blunting
- Reduction in morning depression (Which can be quite crippling)

So my question is this, for those on SSRI's who have had their physiology changed by years of being this drug, may it be necessary for exogenous melatonin (Due to SSRI's depletion of melatonin release).

Any other recommendations or discussions about why there is this persistence? And what lifestyle changes we can make to combat it?

 

[Ashoka]

I can't remember but I think Ray may have said a small amount of melatonin can be used in certain circumstances - you might want to double-check on that.

Anyway, sorry no one else responded to this. I'm not in a position to make resounding suggestions. But perhaps if you don't know how to target specific issue, to continue working in a more general direction. Also, you probably know things like glycine are connected with sleep, so you could try gelatin or even glycine itself.

 

[Sucrates]

I think Ray was asked of 1-2mg was safe and gave a "yes" that wasn't so enthusiastic. I got the impression though that his criticisms might be more toward the larger doses marketed as anti-oxidant. I've used it at 2mg time release for years for sleep, not found anything else that is effective for more than 3-4 days or without side effects. I suspect it might be possible with doses of progesterone I'm not willing to take frequently (>20mg). I'd probably use non-time release if it were an option here. I think Ray said it's possibly created as a side effect of serotonin detoxification of the brain. I suspect I don't do this well and tend toward high serotonin/low melatonin.

 

[encerent]

I've been off SSRI for 5 years and sleep hasn't fully recovered yet. I finally think I'm getting close though.

 

[passivity]

I've been off SSRI for 5 years and sleep hasn't fully recovered yet. I finally think I'm getting close though.

Damn, sorry, Ive been off AP and stims for 3 years, and off benzos and trazodone for 2 years.

 

[logicalscout]

Thank you @Ashoka and @Sucrates for your reply. I'll look into L-Glycine. I know it can be used to increase levels of allopregnenalone which is a GABA-A agonist. I believe the suggested dose was 5g per night, however, I'm not sure of the long term effects of doing this (and or tolerance).

@encerent I'm sorry to hear that you've been dealing with this as well. Can you describe any of the sleep issues you've been having and the positive changes you've found in the last 5 years due to abstaining from the drug?

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

Just to add to the mix;

I've been off SSRIs for 6 months after 8 years taking them (including a slow taper). Along with many other issues, memory of any dreams is still completely absent. I'd be curious what my REM sleep is like given your sleep study above.

One thing I did notice, is that SSRI withdrawal has a tendency to increase hyperventilation. CO2 rebreathing (with the buteyko method or bag breathing) increased the amount of time I remain asleep in the wake of SSRI withdrawal. This difference was 8/9 nightly awakenings to around 1/2. Presumably this links to improved sleep quality, even if it's not full recovery.

 

[Sucrates]

Just to add to the mix;

I've been off SSRIs for 6 months after 8 years taking them (including a slow taper). Along with many other issues, memory of any dreams is still completely absent. I'd be curious what my REM sleep is like given your sleep study above.

My observation is that dream recall is only related to interruption of sleep. If you have a good sleep pattern or always wake naturally you simply might not have a chance to remember any dreams. Try setting multiple random alarms during the night and morning.