Serotonin promotes (futile) patience and (false) faith in future rewards

haidut

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This study alone explains so much of the pathological behavior seen in humans living in developed countries. Namely, the vast majority of them are willing to break their backs working and "delaying gratification" in the hopes that one day they will "make it" and all of their efforts will be generously rewarded. Of course, this pipe dream never materializes for most of them but for some reason the steady stream of gullible suckers never seems to end. The study below suggests that the constant stress and mass prescription of serotonergic drugs (e.g. SSRI class) go hand-in-hand as enablers of this psychotic behavior of the masses. Namely, it is serotonin that enables "patient" (absurd or fanatic are better words IMO) behavior, delayed gratification, and continued faith in future rewards despite past disappointment. Karl Marx once called religion an "opium for the (regular) people", but I think these days religion has been replaced by something much more successful, advanced, and profitable - the SSRI drugs. The crushing environment we all live in does not help much either. Last but not least, the study below puts the word (medical) patient in a new light - i.e. a gullible person who waits for his/her reward (cure) that usually never materializes, while doctors continuously admonish the patient to be...well...patient and continue taking various patience-promoting drugs. What a sick world!!

Serotonergic projections to the orbitofrontal and medial prefrontal cortices differentially modulate waiting for future rewards | Science Advances
Scientists reveal regions of the brain where serotonin promotes patience: Serotonin keeps mice waiting longer for food, depending on where in the brain it's released
"...Now, in a study on mice conducted by the Neural Computation Unit at the Okinawa Institute of Science and Technology Graduate University (OIST), the authors, Dr. Katsuhiko Miyazaki and Dr. Kayoko Miyazaki, pinpoint specific areas of the brain that individually promote patience through the action of serotonin. Their findings were published 27th November in Science Advances. "Serotonin is one of the most famous neuromodulators of behavior, helping to regulate mood, sleep-wake cycles and appetite," said Dr. Katsuhiko Miyazaki. "Our research shows that release of this chemical messenger also plays a crucial role in promoting patience, increasing the time that mice are willing to wait for a food reward." Their most recent work draws heavily on previous research, where the unit used a powerful technique called optogenetics -- using light to stimulate specific neurons in the brain -- to establish a causal link between serotonin and patience."

"...The researchers found that the model best fitted the experimental data of waiting time by increasing the expected reward probability from 75% to 94% under serotonin stimulation. Put more simply, serotonin increased the mice's belief that they were in a reward trial, and so they waited longer."

"...Ultimately, increasing our knowledge of how different areas of the brain are more or less affected by serotonin could have vital implications in future development of drugs. For example, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are drugs that boost levels of serotonin in the brain and are used to treat depression.
 

lvysaur

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Couldn't this be seen as a positive thing? As in, the serotonin "primes" you for a nicer/stable/rewarding environment? Even if that's not actually the case right now, it would suggest that evolurionarily it was a response to "good" times.
 

gaze

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reminds me of this kaftka passage: before the law

 

soul_rebel

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Yeah im not sure if this a good or bad thing. Serotonin can mediate the need for instant gratification, frustration, and impatience, but I can see the damage of this "waiting" behavior long term. Interesting study.
 

lampofred

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This makes it seem like patience is a bad thing but the actual effect of 5HT relates to reward. It increases *craving* for reward and willingness to endure harsh conditions for reward (which can appear as "patience"), whereas the high dopamine type is either lazy or works hard even if there's nothing in it for them.

I doubt patience in the sense of incremental progress, moving 1% at a time instead of 100% all at once is related to 5HT. Patience in the sense of blindness, not seeing any results from something but telling yourself you have to keep doing it for many more months before it works, or in the sense of delayed gratification, enduring pain in one moment for gain in the next, is the type of "patience" 5HT induces.

No comment on faith because I'm not mature enough to tell what is real faith vs blind faith. I doubt that real faith would be related to 5HT though. It's very hard to distinguish real maturity from the false, backward 5HT-driven maturity.
 
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gaze

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In the proper CONTEXT yes it can be a positive trait. You follow health norms that are "obedient" with nature. "Rebel" against proper diet and health norms and live with the consequences. Context is key.

to me personally, obedience always implys an unwillingness to change. i think it's different then living alongside the rules of nature while always mainting skepticism and second guessing of oneself. once the skepticism is gone and obedience is present, it's basically like any other ideology, that's not grounded in any universal truth. You can think your right, while always being willing to listen to new arguements, which would not be obedience to the norms you currently follow
 

lvysaur

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would you consider "obedience" a positive trait?
If it is difficult to obtain reward without obedience, then yes it's a positive trait. If there exist other avenues by which to obtain reward, which have a higher average payoff, then it's a negative trait.

This makes it seem like patience is a bad thing but the actual effect of 5HT relates to reward. It increases *craving* for reward and willingness to endure harsh conditions for reward (which can appear as "patience"), whereas the high dopamine type is either lazy or works hard even if there's nothing in it for them.
This makes intuitive sense to me and I have felt it before. The difference between being so addicted that you're willing to wait, or simply waiting because "you can afford to".
 
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jb116

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Hey Georgi, do you think delusions of grandeur are also promoted by serotonin?
There is a sense of false faith in one's ability or who they purport to be in this case.
 

haidut

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Couldn't this be seen as a positive thing? As in, the serotonin "primes" you for a nicer/stable/rewarding environment? Even if that's not actually the case right now, it would suggest that evolurionarily it was a response to "good" times.

The part about serotonin convincing the rats they were in a reward cycle, when they were actually not, is most certainly not a good sign. False belief in future rewards is perhaps the main theme of every elite-ruled society.
 

haidut

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Could this be called something like "Blind love"? Ignoring the facts....

More like "blind faith". "Blind" love is associated with high dopamine, not serotonin.
 

haidut

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No comment on faith because I'm not mature enough to tell what is real faith vs blind faith. I doubt that real faith would be related to 5HT though. It's very hard to distinguish real maturity from the false, backward 5HT-driven maturity.

The part of the study showing serotonin made the rats believe they were in for a reward when in fact they weren't, is hardly a good sign. Some patience is probably necessary in modern life but spending one's entire life in "the grind" in the (usually false) belief of some great eventual reward, or even an award in the afterlife, is exactly what allows authoritarian cultures to thrive.
 

haidut

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Hey Georgi, do you think delusions of grandeur are also promoted by serotonin?
There is a sense of false faith in one's ability or who they purport to be in this case.

Yes, I think it does. Delusions of grandeur are usually part of the psychopathic spectrum of disorders and those are heavily influenced by serotonin. Serotonin promotes abstract thinking and "dissociation" from reality, which is a requirement for delusions of any kind to form.
 

GelatinGoblin

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Pathological Impatience-Anxiety Disorder July 12 2029
"Per request of the United States of America and Eurasia Public Health and Containment Department, the purpose of this paper is to investigate confirmed treatment for Pathological Impatience-Anxiety Disorder (PIXD). PIXD has been found to be treatable with SSRIs with little side effects. SSRIs commonly used are DopanNon (DopaNopetrix), Inflamanet (Inflom) and PeSSDector (DikNon). Adjusting the diet of the patient to mainly Nuts, Fruit, Lean Meat such as chicken, Brown rice or Oats, Fatty Fish and supplemental nutritional Soy based supplement [2] is recommended as any apparent dissatisfaction, pathological motivation, restlessness and Psychological Fortitude (Paranoia-OCD Disorder) may worsen the condition; the former list of behaviours has been found to be fuelled by Sugar, EFA (Essential Fatty Acids) deficiency, Saturated Fatty Acids, high or moderate animal Protein intake, Hypermetabolism [10] [8] [15] [9] and "freethinking" (Restless Mind Syndrome, very often presented as rebellious, anti-social or independent [4] , paranoid behaviour; these have all been classified as "abnormal" freethinking, an increasing mental phenomena directly corresponding with the increase in PIXD cases [14] , both are worsened by COVID-28 lockdown and containment induced isolation), the diet presented above fits all the criteria and has been found to significantly reduce PIXD symptoms [2] [8] , and the "freethinking" pathology pathway has been found to have a Psycho-Physiological "negative feedback loop" with the diet [16] [2] . In extreme cases and for immediate relief injection of Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine) and pure oxygen treatment in effective [5] , although this hasn't been tested long-term."
 
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