Serotonin Is The Driver Of Futile Patience And Delayed Gratification

[haidut]

Seems like religion and the belief of a reward in the afterlife is a direct result of serotonin.

But whats the opposite? Nihilistic Hedonism?

I think the idea of obedience to a church, pope, priest, etc high authority official and believing that they are your path to bliss is associated with high serotonin. But the belief in afterlife or organizing principle in the Universe (God?), or even things like Biocentricity has evidence behind it. It may not be definitive but it is not a blind belief driven by serotonin. Peat spoke recently about David Griffin and his ideas on Process Theology. It is quite interesting and apparently can be made to fit quite well with mainstream religious ideas. I think Process Theology removes what some people consider the servile, defeatist aspects of religion.

 

[Dotdash]

When I first measured serotonin through whole blood sampling my level was 244 then 311 then 228. Normal range was 11-204. Never have I had the sypmtoms of high serotonin spoken of on this forum or by any other study I've read. Hope and Faith are way too personal to relegate it to a serotonin influence. A Christian, for instance, hopes till the very last no matter what the circumstances because we understand death is not the end of it but only the beginning. I cannot reduce that to having more or less serotonin than other humans. Many people can, through practice, perceive they are warm in the midst of frigid temps and actually be warm. Is that serotonin? If so, wouldn't that be helpful?

 

[Mossy]

A person with "delusionally positive expectations" may not have such a fulfilling life.

There is a difference between irritability and impatience. The former is not a sign of low serotonin, but probably the opposite. I think the impatience the study looked at was simply the ability to make a consistent effort without solid reason for doing so.

Just going with a thought here, triggered by your thoughts, and an examination of my own life. I see the delusional positive expectations and impatience as suppression, which we've all heard, and to some degree have probably experienced, is damaging. Maybe it's suppression, which is really an uncommitted trust in the future--a false hope--that is the trigger to bad things, the creator of serotonin. Where as true patience and contentment, and the need not to be gratified before the proper time, is the producer of good things, in a body--and life.

 

[Tarmander]

It has been my experience as well in observing the people in my life that those with high dopamine/thyroid levels tend to more to live for moment-to-moment pleasures and are definitely more susceptible to the excesses of addiction and abuse of various kinds, whereas those in my life who are a more hypothyroid/low-energy personality are more restrained, live less for the moment and more for the future, and less likely to show addictive behaviours. It seems to be a fairly established fact that highly driven and energetic individuals are more likely to have problems like sexual promiscuity or substance abuse, it is the double-edged sword of dopamine that has been well pointed out by Fred Previc.

Not to say that having strong thyroid function and high dopamine necessarily leads to problematic behaviours, but I've observed that people who carry a great deal of emotional tension, due to traumatic childhoods or whatever, which some might argue should lead to chronic stress and hypothyroidism, actually such people often rather seem to become hyperdopaminergic and hyperthyroid as a defense mechanism, maybe due to the well-established ability of dopamine to suppress emotions.

Basically the dichotomy found in Zorba the Greek.

 

[Pulstar]

Sounds familiar.

Is this condition of "delayed gratification" is similar to some sort of low energy stupor or learned helplessness? They are all kind of synonyms to me.

Or when a person is in some sort of indecision, just sitting and doing nothing, waiting for something, instead of acting?

 

[fradon]

yes and dopamine is the driver of immediate gratification...

i find when my serotonin is low i get OCD and when I eat sugar to raise my serotonin all my symptoms disappear and I become calm and more reflective and patient.

 

[Arrade]

Yooo love that headline

 

[lampofred]

Interesting... I often find that when I have other symptoms of high dopamine such as optimism and sociability, I'm able to delay gratification better than when I have symptoms of high serotonin such as lethargy (not calmness) and irritability. Also, if I feel good, I am more patient and am not bothered by trivial things (but I get much more angry at injustice and intentional malevolence/deceit). Caffeine lowers serotonin, and caffeine increases my patience and ability to delay gratification. Is it logical to ignore every other study on the effects of serotonin but accept the findings of this one?

 

[LUH 3417]

Seems like religion and the belief of a reward in the afterlife is a direct result of serotonin.

But whats the opposite? Nihilistic Hedonism?

Humanism

 

[Fractality]

It has been my experience as well in observing the people in my life that those with high dopamine/thyroid levels tend to more to live for moment-to-moment pleasures and are definitely more susceptible to the excesses of addiction and abuse of various kinds, whereas those in my life who are a more hypothyroid/low-energy personality are more restrained, live less for the moment and more for the future, and less likely to show addictive behaviours. It seems to be a fairly established fact that highly driven and energetic individuals are more likely to have problems like sexual promiscuity or substance abuse, it is the double-edged sword of dopamine that has been well pointed out by Fred Previc.

Not to say that having strong thyroid function and high dopamine necessarily leads to problematic behaviours, but I've observed that people who carry a great deal of emotional tension, due to traumatic childhoods or whatever, which some might argue should lead to chronic stress and hypothyroidism, actually such people often rather seem to become hyperdopaminergic and hyperthyroid as a defense mechanism, maybe due to the well-established ability of dopamine to suppress emotions.

How can you definitively tell whether someone is "high dopamine/thyroid" just by observing them? I observe and experience differently. A low dopamine and/or high estrogen state would cause one to be inclined towards substance abuse and other addictive behaviors. For instance, alcohol can provide a short-term thyroid like boost of energy and is often used for that reason. When I enter a pro-dopamine state through manipulation of environment, I have zero minmial or zero inclination towards drinking, (ab)using drugs, watching porn, having sex, etc.

 

[Andman]

How can you definitively tell whether someone is "high dopamine/thyroid" just by observing them? I observe and experience differently. A low dopamine and/or high estrogen state would cause one to be inclined towards substance abuse and other addictive behaviors. For instance, alcohol can provide a short-term thyroid like boost of energy and is often used for that reason. When I enter a pro-dopamine state through manipulation of environment, I have zero minmial or zero inclination towards drinking, (ab)using drugs, watching porn, having sex, etc.

yeah i agree, pretty much the opposite of what is sought after in biohacking/nootropic/pua/bb etc communities imo

 

[lampofred]

Already commented on this thread before, but this is a very interesting study. I'm starting to think that patience has less to do with serotonin and more to do with an increased amount of inhibitory neurotransmission. I wonder if GABA would have a similar effect. Whereas dopamine would reduce patience because it is excitatory, not because it is lowering serotonin per se.

Dopamine is healthier than serotonin, but Peat says for optimal respiration, inhibitory neurotransmission should be high and amines should be low.

EDIT: I looked through the actual study links and it seems like what serotonin does is make you crave reward more, so you endure harsher conditions to get it. Whereas without serotonin you are more indifferent to reward. In other words serotonin makes you work harder for a result. Whereas with low serotonin you are either lazy or you work hard just for the sake of working hard, not for any reward from the work.

Also why did they draw the high serotonin rats to look evil lol.