10+ Day Period of Poor Sleep Quality but Doing Everything by the Book.. Please Help?!

simmo8

Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
10
Currently going through a really bad bout of poor sleep at the moment and would LOVE some help and any guidance you can offer... Just finding the motivation and effort to write this post is hard enough!

What I find hard to comprehend is I seem to be doing EVERYTHING right in terms of what is considered "by the book" so I am finding it hard to understand why it's happening which is why any insight would be really appreciated.

My N=1 personal health context:

Light Hygiene

- Always prioritise AM sunlight
- Use full spectrum day light bulb when I'm inside (until sunset)
- Intermittent use of red light therapy (and use of red-light at night as opposed to LED/bright lights)
- Use of blue-light blocking glasses after sunset

Movement
- Full body movement routine every morning (intensity depends on how I feel / how well I've slept)

Diet
Breakfast: steak and/or offal, buttered white rice, salt and CoQ10
Lunch: Cheese/honey and/or big glass of warm whole milk with gelatine
Dinner: Buttered white rice, salt (sometimes with some OJ as well)
Pre-bed: Salt, OJ and a little butter

I avoid muscle meats (or any meat for that matter) in the evenings due to high tryptophan content which is why I eat it as early in the day as I can.

Sleep Aids
Promethazine (a.k.a phenergan) - use intermittently
Benedryl - use intermittently

I was finding promethazine really effective for 2-3 weeks (using about 8-12mg per night) where it was helping me sleep through the night but then it's efficacy suddenly stopped. Benedryl is a similar story although I find it makes me feel very low and depressed in the mornings. Even with small doses (6-10mg). This didn't happen immediately but became a symptom I experienced after a sustained period of dosing.

Aspirin
Been experimenting with using it AM and PM. AM it affects my mood. Makes me feel a bit flat. However PM (before dinner) I have experienced the opposite where it makes me feel more motivated, calmer and (weirdly?!) easier to breath deep. Before bed is a NO GO for me. Does not help my sleep and makes me feel very low, depressed if used for sleep.

B1/B3
Started using recently but no subjective changes so far.

Magnesium Chloride
Use before meals to help digestion along with maintaining steady levels of magnesium intake throughout the day.

Methlyene Blue
Used for 2-3 days a few weeks ago and I saw a significant improvement in my mood, motivation and overall desire. I found it quite potent emotionally. However, with the added energy it brings I was finding it hard to wind down in the evenings (even with doses as low as 1/2 mg) so I stopped it. Part of me feels ever since using MB is when all my problems with sleep started (I know it's a MOA inhibitor and has sertogenic properties) but could just be coincidence. Thought was worth mentioning anyway.

I think this is everything but I write this having had 3 hours of sleep so I can't think as clearly as I'd like so forgive me if I have missed something but I hope your answers may provoke me to elaborate more when it comes up!
 

mostlylurking

Member
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
475
Currently going through a really bad bout of poor sleep at the moment and would LOVE some help and any guidance you can offer... Just finding the motivation and effort to write this post is hard enough!

What I find hard to comprehend is I seem to be doing EVERYTHING right in terms of what is considered "by the book" so I am finding it hard to understand why it's happening which is why any insight would be really appreciated.

My N=1 personal health context:

Light Hygiene

- Always prioritise AM sunlight
- Use full spectrum day light bulb when I'm inside (until sunset)
- Intermittent use of red light therapy (and use of red-light at night as opposed to LED/bright lights)
- Use of blue-light blocking glasses after sunset

Movement
- Full body movement routine every morning (intensity depends on how I feel / how well I've slept)

Diet
Breakfast: steak and/or offal, buttered white rice, salt and CoQ10
Lunch: Cheese/honey and/or big glass of warm whole milk with gelatine
Dinner: Buttered white rice, salt (sometimes with some OJ as well)
Pre-bed: Salt, OJ and a little butter

I avoid muscle meats (or any meat for that matter) in the evenings due to high tryptophan content which is why I eat it as early in the day as I can.

Sleep Aids
Promethazine (a.k.a phenergan) - use intermittently
Benedryl - use intermittently

I was finding promethazine really effective for 2-3 weeks (using about 8-12mg per night) where it was helping me sleep through the night but then it's efficacy suddenly stopped. Benedryl is a similar story although I find it makes me feel very low and depressed in the mornings. Even with small doses (6-10mg). This didn't happen immediately but became a symptom I experienced after a sustained period of dosing.

Aspirin
Been experimenting with using it AM and PM. AM it affects my mood. Makes me feel a bit flat. However PM (before dinner) I have experienced the opposite where it makes me feel more motivated, calmer and (weirdly?!) easier to breath deep. Before bed is a NO GO for me. Does not help my sleep and makes me feel very low, depressed if used for sleep.

B1/B3
Started using recently but no subjective changes so far.

Magnesium Chloride
Use before meals to help digestion along with maintaining steady levels of magnesium intake throughout the day.

Methlyene Blue
Used for 2-3 days a few weeks ago and I saw a significant improvement in my mood, motivation and overall desire. I found it quite potent emotionally. However, with the added energy it brings I was finding it hard to wind down in the evenings (even with doses as low as 1/2 mg) so I stopped it. Part of me feels ever since using MB is when all my problems with sleep started (I know it's a MOA inhibitor and has sertogenic properties) but could just be coincidence. Thought was worth mentioning anyway.

I think this is everything but I write this having had 3 hours of sleep so I can't think as clearly as I'd like so forgive me if I have missed something but I hope your answers may provoke me to elaborate more when it comes up!
Sorry you are having trouble sleeping.

A few thoughts:
1. Are you doing anything to deal with endotoxin? An endotoxin issue will affect your ability to sleep. Endotoxin raises serotonin.
2. What time of day are you taking the B1? If you take it after 5:00pm, it can cause your blood sugar to drop in the middle of the night and that will wake you up.
3. Some milk and gelatin with a little sugar at bedtime should knock you right out.
4. If you wake up, have more milk, gelatin, sugar or have some orange juice. Your blood sugar is probably low and that triggers adrenaline which wakes you up.
5. Are you taking any vitamin D? It is supposed to help with sleep. However, if you take vitamin D without taking vitamin A too your ability to sleep will be affected.

Your diet: are you getting enough protein? 90+ grams a day is suggested if you aren't very active. Are you getting enough carbs from fruits? The rice becomes pure glucose in about 10 minutes in your body; it raises insulin and sets you up for a hypoglycemic crash which may be affecting your sleep. Orange juice is a great choice because it includes lots of potassium and also fructose with some glucose so it doesn't trigger insulin like the white rice will. The white rice could be causing problems for you.
 
Last edited:

simmo8

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
10
Thanks @mostlylurking

1 - How do you reduce endotoxin? I thought antihistamines helped with this. My tongue whiteness is in good shape in the morning which I understand is usually a good sign.

2 - B1 - In the morning before lunch.

3 - Milk, gelatine & sugar will certainly give it a try (just conscious it could actually be the milk causing the problems being high tryptophan)

4 - Agree - on waking more glucose to replenish stores certainly seems wise but I wonder if OJ/Salt could be a better idea as per my point above.

5 - Understand why you suggest Vit D but I'm not sure I am convinced by taking it in oral form. I prefer to get it from food sources (fatty meats, eggs or milk if I can).

RE: Protein - I usually eat 150+ grams (sometimes 200) so I don't see this being the issue.

RE: Carbs from fruits - This could certainly be a good point. AM meal with rice and maybe evening meal with rice and/or fruit to help replenish liver stores more effectively sounds logical.
 

bddn

New Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Messages
2
If sleep was a matter of doing everything “right”, then you - with your extensive protocol - would be sleeping like a baby every night, and most regular people - with their unhealthy and “incorrect” life styles - would not be getting a wink...

But most people sleep just fine, and they are not doing a 10th of what you’re doing. In fact, many will be eating MaccyDs, watching Netflix all day, not get a lick of exercise or daylight, etc.

It’s sleep for crying out loud, not quantum physics.

Anyway, what i’m driving at is that part of your sleep issues may be that you’re trying a little too hard. Sleep, along with sex, are two unique activities in that the harder you try the less likely you are to be successful.
 

simmo8

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
10
If sleep was a matter of doing everything “right”, then you - with your extensive protocol - would be sleeping like a baby every night, and most regular people - with their unhealthy and “incorrect” life styles - would not be getting a wink...

But most people sleep just fine, and they are not doing a 10th of what you’re doing. In fact, many will be eating MaccyDs, watching Netflix all day, not get a lick of exercise or daylight, etc.

It’s sleep for crying out loud, not quantum physics.

Anyway, what i’m driving at is that part of your sleep issues may be that you’re trying a little too hard. Sleep, along with sex, are two unique activities in that the harder you try the less likely you are to be successful.

Absolutely - couldn't agree with you more about this.

Rather than trying to be all scientific and calculated about it, I know I'd probably do better by just "letting go".. just easier said than done sometimes!
 

Hans

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
3,147
Currently going through a really bad bout of poor sleep at the moment and would LOVE some help and any guidance you can offer... Just finding the motivation and effort to write this post is hard enough!

What I find hard to comprehend is I seem to be doing EVERYTHING right in terms of what is considered "by the book" so I am finding it hard to understand why it's happening which is why any insight would be really appreciated.

My N=1 personal health context:

Light Hygiene

- Always prioritise AM sunlight
- Use full spectrum day light bulb when I'm inside (until sunset)
- Intermittent use of red light therapy (and use of red-light at night as opposed to LED/bright lights)
- Use of blue-light blocking glasses after sunset

Movement
- Full body movement routine every morning (intensity depends on how I feel / how well I've slept)

Diet
Breakfast: steak and/or offal, buttered white rice, salt and CoQ10
Lunch: Cheese/honey and/or big glass of warm whole milk with gelatine
Dinner: Buttered white rice, salt (sometimes with some OJ as well)
Pre-bed: Salt, OJ and a little butter

I avoid muscle meats (or any meat for that matter) in the evenings due to high tryptophan content which is why I eat it as early in the day as I can.

Sleep Aids
Promethazine (a.k.a phenergan) - use intermittently
Benedryl - use intermittently

I was finding promethazine really effective for 2-3 weeks (using about 8-12mg per night) where it was helping me sleep through the night but then it's efficacy suddenly stopped. Benedryl is a similar story although I find it makes me feel very low and depressed in the mornings. Even with small doses (6-10mg). This didn't happen immediately but became a symptom I experienced after a sustained period of dosing.

Aspirin
Been experimenting with using it AM and PM. AM it affects my mood. Makes me feel a bit flat. However PM (before dinner) I have experienced the opposite where it makes me feel more motivated, calmer and (weirdly?!) easier to breath deep. Before bed is a NO GO for me. Does not help my sleep and makes me feel very low, depressed if used for sleep.

B1/B3
Started using recently but no subjective changes so far.

Magnesium Chloride
Use before meals to help digestion along with maintaining steady levels of magnesium intake throughout the day.

Methlyene Blue
Used for 2-3 days a few weeks ago and I saw a significant improvement in my mood, motivation and overall desire. I found it quite potent emotionally. However, with the added energy it brings I was finding it hard to wind down in the evenings (even with doses as low as 1/2 mg) so I stopped it. Part of me feels ever since using MB is when all my problems with sleep started (I know it's a MOA inhibitor and has sertogenic properties) but could just be coincidence. Thought was worth mentioning anyway.

I think this is everything but I write this having had 3 hours of sleep so I can't think as clearly as I'd like so forgive me if I have missed something but I hope your answers may provoke me to elaborate more when it comes up!
Perhaps you can try magnesium threonate instead.
Glycine, taurine, valerian, sodium bicarb and theanine might help to promote proper sleep if you want to try that out.
 

ursidae

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
669
This is a strange and pretty restrictive diet. What’s the reason youre eating like this?
 

simmo8

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
10
This is a strange and pretty restrictive diet. What’s the reason youre eating like this?
I had really bad GI issues for a long time that were causing me all sorts of discomfort and emotional stress and since eliminating all vegetables (and anything relatively fibrous) it's made a HUGE improvement so I am finding it work really well for me.

For some more context, I did carnivore for 8 months and messed up my thyroid (amongst other things) so I've been "peating" ever since the summer to help resolve those problems and for the most part, it's been very beneficial for me.
 

simmo8

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
10
Perhaps you can try magnesium threonate instead.
Glycine, taurine, valerian, sodium bicarb and theanine might help to promote proper sleep if you want to try that out.
Thanks @Hans - Will dig into those suggestions deeper for sure. Appreciate it.

I've tried taurine before but made me feel very low/depressed in the morning. Sodium bicarb impacted my digestion but may have been using too much.
 

Geo

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
28
you neglect B2 which is necessary to turn tryptophan to niacinamide and to fat metabolism. Take it after sun.
 

Arnold Grape

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2017
Messages
584
Location
Upstate
My intuitive sense is that you’re consuming too much white rice, which I would not eat more than 1-2 times a week. (Does this affect transit time/ are you eating carrot salad or doing something else to improve digestion?) Another thing that strikes me is that your caloric intake could be low: eat some generous meals for a few days and see if that increases our sleep.

Another thing that’s worth trying is unplugging your router and shutting off your devices at night. This has not worked for me personally, but I know that it has positive effects for many people.

Last thing that I would suggest is trying Unisom Sleep Tabs (Doxylamine Succinate), in a .5 tablet. This will promote sleep if you’re well nourished and may prevent feelings of dread or “learned helplessness”. If this works, you may want to look into Cyproheptadine.

Also — look into stretching before bed.
 
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