Too much REM sleep vs too low Deep sleep

[Hans]

I've gotten back to a tad of t3/t4 right before bed as it does add that touch of depth to my sleep. When I don't have it for a while, I really notice the speed/depth of falling asleep. Something about that feeling about falling asleep and you know it's going to be a good one.

For sure, it's pretty amazing haha. How much do you take before bed?

 

[faxmulder]

@Hans

Could high REM sleep vs low deep sleep be caused by too much acetylcholine?

I have high acetylcholine symptoms, such as high salivation, pale skin, cold hands and generally symptoms of low GABA, i.e. overthinking and worry.
Is it true that acetylcholine opposites GABA?

Maybe I could try forskolin, which AFAIK should lower acetylcholine.

Thanks

 

[Hans]

@Hans

Could high REM sleep vs low deep sleep be caused by too much acetylcholine?

I have high acetylcholine symptoms, such as high salivation, pale skin, cold hands and generally symptoms of low GABA, i.e. overthinking and worry.
Is it true that acetylcholine opposites GABA?

Maybe I could try forskolin, which AFAIK should lower acetylcholine.

Thanks

Struggling to get into deep sleep is usually a body temp problem, which can relate to thyroid. Serotonin can prevent reaching those deep stages. Low core temps as well.
You might have too much glutamate to GABA ratio and perhaps copper to zinc.

 

[Beastmode]

For sure, it's pretty amazing haha. How much do you take before bed?

The most is 1/8th. That's very uncommon as one tablet easily lasts over 10 days or more.

Since I started back, after restocking, I just take a tiny nibble (maybe 1/16th maybe.)

The first I had it, after 4 months of not having it, felt like a sack of rocks sinking slowing into a bottomless ocean...haha.

I remember in my sporting days where I would pass out very deeply, but it was from pure exhaustion. Now, it's the same depth of passing out, all fueled up with very little stress in my day.

Yourself?

 

[IT'S OVER]

No I don't need it anymore. Occasionally I might try it again to see if it improves my sleep even more or not.

Aspirin can be a little harsh on the gut for some people. To reduce gut inflammation, I'd start by eliminating potential gut irritating foods, get lots of sunlight and make sure to be active.

Thanks for the answer man, i already do all of thoes things, my gut case is a more severy (i have it since childhood) i have got a ultrasound about a week ago, i will see what the doctors says next.
I got very bad gut and sleep(for about 3 years+), i think if i can drastically improve one, the other will eventually get well. i have thinking about tanking thyroid. Iam currently taking pulses and temps to see if i really need.

 

[faxmulder]

Struggling to get into deep sleep is usually a body temp problem, which can relate to thyroid. Serotonin can prevent reaching those deep stages. Low core temps as well.
You might have too much glutamate to GABA ratio and perhaps copper to zinc.

Thanks man, actually last bloodworks showed  low copper.

Since I have also high histamine levels (in particular eosinophils) and symptoms such as migraines, being tired and wired, hay fever, perfectionism, OCD tendencies maybe undermethylation could be an explanation?

I have also some focus issue, so maybe undermethylation is causing low dopamine and also serotonin.

I must add that I respond well to SAM-e.

What do you think?

 

[Hans]

Thanks for the answer man, i already do all of thoes things, my gut case is a more severy (i have it since childhood) i have got a ultrasound about a week ago, i will see what the doctors says next.
I got very bad gut and sleep(for about 3 years+), i think if i can drastically improve one, the other will eventually get well. i have thinking about tanking thyroid. Iam currently taking pulses and temps to see if i really need.

Has anything happened that caused the gut issues?
What have you tried so far to fix it?

 

[Hans]

Thanks man, actually last bloodworks showed  low copper.

Since I have also high histamine levels (in particular eosinophils) and symptoms such as migraines, being tired and wired, hay fever, perfectionism, OCD tendencies maybe undermethylation could be an explanation?

I have also some focus issue, so maybe undermethylation is causing low dopamine and also serotonin.

I must add that I respond well to SAM-e.

What do you think?

Yes your symptom do match with histamine. Since copper is low, up that to lower excess histamine. Methylation can play a role. Is your homocysteine high?
Undermethylation cause high dopamine and histamine, since COMT breaks them down.

 

[Charger]

I've been having issues with waking up 2 hours before my alarm for a few months now. What and how much I eat before bed doesn't seem to consistently affect anything.

Niacin is probably the strongest sleep supplement I've tried, knocks me out and keeps me out through the night. Definitely serotonergic, though, wish I could find something similar that isn't.

 

[faxmulder]

Yes your symptom do match with histamine. Since copper is low, up that to lower excess histamine. Methylation can play a role. Is your homocysteine high?
Undermethylation cause high dopamine and histamine, since COMT breaks them down.

thanks man.

How much copper should I supplement? It's better to take it with zinc?

What would you advise, other than copper, for undermethylation? SAM-e, TMG or both? Maybe I could start with a simple methylfolate + methyl-B12 complex and see if that improves my situation.

If I've understood correctly, in my case niacin and niacinamide could be detrimental, since they increase histamine and slow down methylation, correct?

I'm wondering if undermethylation would be one case in which one should try to increase serotonin.

Regarding homocysteine, I didn't measure it yet. I'll take new bloodworks at the end of Jun.

 

[Hans]

thanks man.

How much copper should I supplement? It's better to take it with zinc?

What would you advise, other than copper, for undermethylation? SAM-e, TMG or both? Maybe I could start with a simple methylfolate + methyl-B12 complex and see if that improves my situation.

If I've understood correctly, in my case niacin and niacinamide could be detrimental, since they increase histamine and slow down methylation, correct?

I'm wondering if undermethylation would be one case in which one should try to increase serotonin.

Regarding homocysteine, I didn't measure it yet. I'll take new bloodworks at the end of Jun.

Oysters and beef liver. That will give you all those micros you need. No need for supps.

 

[faxmulder]

t

Oysters and beef liver. That will give you all those micros you need. No need for supps.

Alright, I'll go with food.
As a general rule, is it true that for undermethylators it should be helpful to increase serotonin and limit niacin/niacinamide, since niacin increases histamine?

Thanks

 

[Hans]

t


Alright, I'll go with food.
As a general rule, is it true that for undermethylators it should be helpful to increase serotonin and limit niacin/niacinamide, since niacin increases histamine?

Thanks

Niacin and niacinamide lower methyl donors at large doses, but 50mg once or twice a day should be fine.

 

[faxmulder]

Niacin and niacinamide lower methyl donors at large doses, but 50mg once or twice a day should be fine.

Thank you

 

[IT'S OVER]

Has anything happened that caused the gut issues?
What have you tried so far to fix it?

i have then since childhood, but it was 1 or 2 week that i would be constipated, ad just for a few minutes, so i didint care, but about 7 months ago they started to get constantly out of nothing, and social life stress agravated it. Now is pretty mild, but istill is there.

So far i have tried: b1 and mg for 3 months (300mg of b1 and 260mg of mag on the 1st mont, then i 2x the dose for 2 more months) nothing changed, for good or for bad.

my temps are a bit lower than the recomended ( never gets at 36.C upon awakening and mid day max is like 36.6.C)


i have found 2 option to buy ate the internet: Thyroid Extrato contém between 34,2 e 41,8 mcg of T4 e entre 8,1 e 9,9 mcg of T3 para cada 65 mg do extrato.

and: Natural Sources, Raw Thyroid

should i try it ?

 

[cs3000]

Aspirin and human sleep - PubMed

Two groups of 8 females were given either 3 X 600 mg aspirin or placebo daily for 4 days, double blind. With aspirin, slow wave sleep was significantly decreased and stage 2 sleep significantly increased. Aspirin also significantly disrupted intra-subject night-to-night continuity of several...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

With aspirin, slow wave sleep was significantly decreased and stage 2 sleep significantly increased.

Slow wave sleep elevations after body heating: proximity to sleep and effects of aspirin - PubMed

On three different occasions, six healthy young adult subjects ahd their body temperatures raised by an average of 2.0 degrees C for 30 min while sitting in baths of warm water. This was done once at 1700 h and on two occasions at 2100 h, once after the subjects had taken aspirin and once after...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Aspirin mostly counteracted these effects and, in particular, left stage 4 sleep and SWS at baseline levels