Possible for adults to increase bone thickness?

[dishealthful]

I feel as if my bones (such as my wrists) became thinner in my late 20s, and that they were underground to begin with (significantly thinner wrists than all males in my family). Do you think it's possible to increase bone thickness in adulthood? If so, how would you approach it?

 

[Osukhan]

there are Osteostrong locations across the country, could be worth looking in to
i have not personally been but was looking at some places for my mom

OsteoStrong | The Ultimate Biohack® | Skeletal Strength Conditioning - OsteoStrong

osteostrong.me

 

[Michael Mohn]

Are you physically active? A little bit of intense physical stimulation/work can go a long way regarding growth of muscle, tendon and bone tissue. Handstands and pull ups are good exercise to strengthen the upper body especially bones and joints.

Nutritional basics like enough calcium and glycine/collagen/protein in the diet should be on point.

I have rather long limbs and I had always the impression that my joints are small but in direct comparison with others they are normal in width the bones attached to them are just longer. Perception is very subjective.

 

[Ucume]

It’s absolutely possible even in old age! The key is weight training at least 3 times a week for 30-40min is more than enough. Actual heavy weights are much supe than just body weight but, depending on fitness, you might need to start with body weight and keep progressing to heavy weight.
I’ve done heavy weight training for 7 years since I was 33. My mum started at 55 and, with the right nutrition, got rid of her osteoporosis.

 

[xeliex]

Uncle vs Dad.
Both older.
Uncle still works fixing cars.
Dad puffs cigarettes (and walks only).
Both are healthy.
Both started with big thick bones.
Dad's bones are now small.
Uncle still thick.

 

[Theta]

The key is weight training at least 3 times a week for 30-40min is more than enough. Actual heavy weights are much supe than just body weight but, depending on fitness, you might need to start with body weight and keep progressing to heavy weight.
I’ve done heavy weight training for 7 years since I was 33. My mum started at 55 and, with the right nutrition, got rid of her osteoporosis.

What was the exact strategy you used to rid your mom of osteoporosis. That is an extraordinary accomplishment. Body weight exercises, meal plans, supplements, etc.

 

[Zoltanman]

I feel as if my bones (such as my wrists) became thinner in my late 20s, and that they were underground to begin with (significantly thinner wrists than all males in my family). Do you think it's possible to increase bone thickness in adulthood? If so, how would you approach it?

I had this same issue all through my growing years. Super fragile from too high estrogen (as a male it's devastating the amount of on-flow problems that come from inability to excrete estrogen) and not enough gelatinous protein

I got a lot stronger and more dense bones with religious focus on daily bone broth in diet, and supplementing 8-10 tablespoons hydrolysed collagen daily (spread dose out 1-2 tablespoons at a time, multiple times daily)

Work on estrogen excretion and good stuff intake and you'll start to gather some density back.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I feel as if my bones (such as my wrists) became thinner in my late 20s, and that they were underground to begin with (significantly thinner wrists than all males in my family). Do you think it's possible to increase bone thickness in adulthood? If so, how would you approach it?

“Most people associate vitamin K with three key benefits -

1. Vitamin K helps the body form blood clots
2. Vitamin K improves bone strength, density, and growth”

Know the Difference Between Vitamin K and Vitamin K2 and It's Benefits

What is Vitamin K1? Is Vitamin K2 Better? In this article we compare difference between vitamin k and vitamin k2. Vitamin K1 often gets grouped in with K2, but there are distinct differences you need to be mindful of as you study how to use them.

agnroots.com

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“Lactic acid produced by intense exercise causes calcium loss from bone (Ashizawa, et al., 1997), and sodium bicarbonate increases calcium retention by bone.” -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“And things that increase your carbon dioxide work right along with vitamin K in helping to keep the calcium and phosphate in your bones rather than in your arteries. Even baking soda helps to build strong bones. And in the way it's acting, it's the same as vitamin K or niacinamide; it's helping the kidneys to excrete phosphate that you don't need, helping to deposit calcium and phosphate in the bones, while taking it out of arteries.” -Ray Peat

 

[Zoltanman]

“And things that increase your carbon dioxide work right along with vitamin K in helping to keep the calcium and phosphate in your bones rather than in your arteries. Even baking soda helps to build strong bones. And in the way it's acting, it's the same as vitamin K or niacinamide; it's helping the kidneys to excrete phosphate that you don't need, helping to deposit calcium and phosphate in the bones, while taking it out of arteries.” -Ray Peat

I also got great results from Vit K (I used natto for doses early on, then went to kuinone from idealabs) also lots of benefits from baking soda too.

I remember the K helping hugely with sore and sensitive teeth... it's definitely worth playing with these as well @dishealthful

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“A wide range of inflammatory mediators that accelerate inflammation and bone loss also inhibit thyroid function. People who ate more polyunsaturated fat, which inhibits thyroid and oxidative metabolism, were several times more likely to have osteoporotic fractures (that is, essentially spontaneous fractures) than people who ate the least. -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I also got great results from Vit K (I used natto for doses early on, then went to kuinone from idealabs) also lots of benefits from baking soda too.

I remember the K helping hugely with sore and sensitive teeth... it's definitely worth playing with these as well @dishealthful

Your teeth sensitivity going away would be a good indicator that it is working on your bones too. I only get sensitive teeth when i eat oats. Oats are really bad for tooth health, I imagine it would be the same for bones.

 

[trinity]

have a look into boron.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Proverbs 16:24​

24 Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones.

 

[Runenight201]

I forget the medical jargon but essentially after puberty elongating bones via the cartilage to bone pathway is impossible because the growth plates fuse, however the ability for the bones to grow radially still remains. There is a balance between removing bone material and remodeling which is dependent upon the physiological state of the body.

In a very nutritionally poor, degenerative state, the body will eat at the bones to help keep the more critical other areas of the body alive, whereas in a nutritionally rich, regenerative state, new bone cell will be modeled.

All the things which are involved with a healthy metabolism, glucose, calcium, thyroid, vitamin k, protein, fat, etc… will put on the bone mass, and all the things which lower metabolism will eat away at your bone mass.

I would focus on collagenous cuts of meat (anything with a bone in it), cooked in broth with tubers or white rice, cheese, milk, fruits, and then supplement vitamin D/K/thyroid on top if you’re looking for a little extra somethin somethin, although to be honest just switching over to a nutrient dense diet as above will do tbe majority of the heavy lifting. You can’t out supplement a bad diet.

 

[Ucume]

What was the exact strategy you used to rid your mom of osteoporosis. That is an extraordinary accomplishment. Body weight exercises, meal plans, supplements, etc.

It definitely is! Her spine was (doctor's words) crumbling and she had to have a fusion of 3 vertebras with titanium support at 55. An absolute mess but she's so well now regarding her spine and bones, thanks god.

Body weight only exercises are not enough (or at least not for the long term), you need to, increasingly, bear heavy weights. I REALLY do believe that lifting heavy weights is crucial to actually and significantly increasing bone density and food and supplements only are not enough. No more than 20-30min per session 2-3 times per week I'd say (to avoid overtraining which can be catabolic apart from taxing on metabolism). That's what she did 2-3 times per week (still does) and, of course, a diet with more than enough animal protein, no grains or gluten (for her they are quite bad anyway) and mostly meats, cooked veggies and fruit, saturated fat, sheep and goat dairy and healthy carbs with every meal. No fasting or skipping meals, daily exposure to sun without protection and a few supplements tailored to her by my naturopath fiancé, but zinc, high vitamin C and Magnesium are amongst them. She's still working on balancing her hashimoto's but has achieved very good temperatures. She was able to stop her osteoporosis medication 3 years ago and still going strong.

 

[Apple]

What is the effect of exercise on [bone loss]?

Exercise will activate the bone cells to prevent calcium loss from bone. And if you stop exercise, the reverse process occurs. You lose bone. So by exercising, you are preventing bone loss. Both exercise and calcium intake are important-we can’t substitute exercise for calcium. But if Both exercise and calcium intake are important-we can’t substitute exercise for calcium. But if we exercise more, we also stimulate calcium absorption. It increases appetite, so you can eat more. and an elevated metabolism stimulates calcium absorption. So all these things aid calcium absorption.

Is weight-bearing exercise more useful?

Yes. It is physical pressure on bone that stimulates bone cells. But all exercise, weight-bearing or not, stimulates calcium absorption. Swimming, for example, is non weight-bearing. Walking is weight-bearing. Calcium absorption is also affected by emotional factors. Exercise is good relaxation that makes you feel happier and stronger. This is important because you have to be happy. You have to be out of distress to absorb enough calcium. Stress and unhappiness decrease calcium absorption. Adrenaline and cortico-steroid hormones are secreted during stress. They facilitate calcium loss and prevent gut absorption. You can eat a lot of calcium, but if it’s taken in a state of harmony, while chatting with friends, for example, then more calcium is absorbed. So what we need are three things: calcium, exercise and happiness. And of course calcium makes you happy. So calcium is everything!

What about dietary sources of calcium?

Milk is a very common source of calcium, but it also contains a lot of phosphorus, which combines with calcium and prevents it from being absorbed. Tofu is good, but not many North Americans eat it. You can eat small fish with bones, like sardines-even canned sardines. But bone calcium is also rich in phosphorus. The ideal dietary source should be low in phosphorus and high in calcium. For Americans milk is alright. It is readily absorbed. They say that broccoli and kale are better than milk, but they don’t contain much calcium and you have to eat such large quantities that it’s not practical. In general, milk is alright. If you are high in cholesterol then low-fat milk is all right. But I would recommend AAACa over any dietary source, because it has no phosphorus. It’s superior to any calcium found in foods.

Takuo Fujita (Calcium Paradox) passed away on November 8, 2022, (16 days before Ray Peat)

Takuo Fujita, MD, PhD (February 10, 1929 to November 8, 2022) https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00774-023-01399-x Ray Peat cited T. Fujita in some of his articles regarding calcium and PTH. He developed a theory which he called the ‘Calcium Paradox’, that is, the contradiction between...

raypeatforum.com

 

[dishealthful]

So I'm hearing that sufficient calcium + vitamin K intake along with resistance training should in theory increase something like wrist thickness-- is this correct?

 

[Ucume]

So I'm hearing that sufficient calcium + vitamin K intake along with resistance training should in theory increase something like wrist thickness-- is this correct?

I'd say it sounds like a good plan taken you also eat enough animal protein