Downsides Of Low Estrogens

[sladerunner69]

Exactly me. Feels good to relate.
My e2 is now constantly under 10 if I don't supplement with exogenous testosterone.
Exemestane abuse is what did this to me, no idea why the effects are so long lasting even months after discontinuation

How do you acquire exogenous testosterone? Docs seem very hesitant to write off on it here in the states.

 

[lampofred]

If low estrogen makes you feel bad you're probably low in calcium/copper and overloaded with iron/phosphate.

Getting rid of iron/phosphate is damn hard though... just as involved an endeavour as depleting PUFA.

 

[schultz]

My e2 is now constantly under 10 if I don't supplement with exogenous testosterone.

Have you ever had your tissue levels tested?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

If low estrogen makes you feel bad you're probably low in calcium/copper and overloaded with iron/phosphate

Interesting hypothesis you bring up

 

[ecstatichamster]

I’m not sure but I took a little exemestane, all good. Then I took more, maybe 10mg a day, and I felt what I think must be low E2 symptoms — primarily poor erections, lower libido, and above all, aching joints. My back hurt like crazy and it hasn’t hurt in years. I’m about back to normal now, took about 2 or 3 weeks. I take about 5mg of DHEA and progesterone every day and about 100mg of pregnenolone daily, and I think that helped things bounce back.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Low estrogen is awful. It's almost worse than a high serotonin state, mood wise. I become so apathetic that I become suicidal. It's as if nothing makes me happy or is enjoyable. Motivation is piss poor. Forget about working out. I barely want to leave the house with low estrogen. Socialization becomes next to impossible. The words just can't come out. Physically, I feel frail and like an old man. I develop lots of tooth issues and pain, I assume from lower bone density. Interestingly, the smallest increase in estrogen fixes everything. It's quite difficult to balance.

Lately the following have happened to me:

• Joints hurting a bit during heavy lifting
• Low motivation, apathy towards life. I have been like this before peating too, though. Now it's worse
• Less carnal desires, and more need for emotional connection with a woman
• Lack of 'estrogen erections'

My Estrogen was low-normal back when I was on a high PUFA diet, I can imagine it's gone much lower since peating if I had to take a guess.
I likely need to quit Aspirin, but it's essential for my hair.

 

[tankasnowgod]

If low estrogen makes you feel bad you're probably low in calcium/copper and overloaded with iron/phosphate.

Getting rid of iron/phosphate is damn hard though... just as involved an endeavour as depleting PUFA.

Getting rid of iron is actually pretty straight forward..... donate blood.

 

[TheBeard]

Yeah, it's really not a fun place to be. It took weeks for me to recover. Life was pretty much on hold during that period. I dropped the exemestane. It's too difficult to dose because of the suicidal inhibition and I'm prone to crashing my estrogen to begin with. Were you still supplementing testosterone during your recovery period?

On and off.
I will jump back on test soon because my e2 feels really low again

 

[TheBeard]

Have you ever had your tissue levels tested?

For what purpose?

 

[TheBeard]

How do you acquire exogenous testosterone? Docs seem very hesitant to write off on it here in the states.

Testosterone powder on Alibaba and DMSO on Amazon

 

[GreekDemiGod]

What about the folks who achieve very high T levels and low E levels through peating and strategic supplementing?
Is very high T coupled with very low E not naturally attainable?

 

[schultz]

For what purpose?

To see if your blood levels mirror/differ from your tissue levels.

You also mentioned previously taking exemestane which can cause an increase in estrogen uptake in the tissues.

 

[Rand56]

I’m not sure but I took a little exemestane, all good. Then I took more, maybe 10mg a day, and I felt what I think must be low E2 symptoms — primarily poor erections, lower libido, and above all, aching joints. My back hurt like crazy and it hasn’t hurt in years. I’m about back to normal now, took about 2 or 3 weeks. I take about 5mg of DHEA and progesterone every day and about 100mg of pregnenolone daily, and I think that helped things bounce back.

I started out taking exemestane 12.5 mg's for only one day. Then the next 5 days I took 6.25 mg's each day. I started getting bone pain. Stopped taking it. I didn't even want to go with a lower dose. I'll never touch the stuff again.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I am thinking of going back to 2mg or 3mg a day. That seemed to be possibly beneficial.

My T is quite good, and I have tested high in estrone and have characteristics of too much estrogen so there is something to be said for persisting in this.

I might also supplement with a tiny bit of boron at the same time.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I started out taking exemestane 12.5 mg's for only one day. Then the next 5 days I took 6.25 mg's each day. I started getting bone pain. Stopped taking it. I didn't even want to go with a lower dose. I'll never touch the stuff again.

I've been taking 6.25mg a day for a month now (along with Vitamin D, DHEA, and Pregnenolone), and it has been great so far. I got some transient joint stiffness in my ankles, both of which had previous surgeries, but that passed in a few days. I remember people noting the same thing on the "DeFibron" thread. I have noticed some positives, like fuller muscles, and will be doing a blood test soon.

One of the things that make me doubt that some of the issues reported are from "too low estrogen" is that there was a study where adding vitamin D to an AI reduced the side effects of that AI, and doctors also report that in their clinical practice. There was another mouse study that showed that D along with Letrozole and Exemestane had a synergistic effect, and lowered estrogen further than either AI alone. So, you can lower the side effects of too low estrogen by lower estrogen even further?

 

[schultz]

I've been taking 6.25mg a day for a month now (along with Vitamin D, DHEA, and Pregnenolone), and it has been great so far. I got some transient joint stiffness in my ankles, both of which had previous surgeries, but that passed in a few days. I remember people noting the same thing on the "DeFibron" thread. I have noticed some positives, like fuller muscles, and will be doing a blood test soon.

One of the things that make me doubt that some of the issues reported are from "too low estrogen" is that there was a study where adding vitamin D to an AI reduced the side effects of that AI, and doctors also report that in their clinical practice. There was another mouse study that showed that D along with Letrozole and Exemestane had a synergistic effect, and lowered estrogen further than either AI alone. So, you can lower the side effects of too low estrogen by lower estrogen even further?

I feel as though there are just too many things we don't know about these drugs. It's sort of crazy to take them and only expect them to selectively target CYP19A1 (I did take Arimidex for a while, so I am also crazy).

I theorized (here) that at least some of the AI's (letrozole, anastrozole) have an effect on the CYP24A1 enzyme, and possibly other enzymes, along with its target CYP19A1. It was just a musing, but it's not that farfetched really. A study I read was talking about trying to develop a drug for Cushing's Syndrome where the drug would specifically target CYP11B1, which is apparently difficult because it is very similar to aldosterone synthase (CYP11B2). They discussed how Fadrozole, and older AI, also had 'off-target' effects on both aldosterone synthase and 11b-hydroxylase. Basically they wanted to use the drug as a starting point for a new, more targeted drug. Normally they wouldn't study this stuff in too much detail because they have no reason to (it could reveal something inappropriate which could reduce profits or sideline the drug altogether) but in this case they were trying to come up with a new drug so I guess that's a good enough reason.

 

[Redshine]

As a female it made my cycle irregular, never ever had that before the peat "diet" and urinary tract infection(s). First I didnt matched it to the diet because I tought estrogen was the hormone I supposed to fight against. But after a few months my mood was down and my cycle started to became irregular and different. Somehow I stumbled acrosse an article about to low estrogen and the part of getting frequent urinary tract infections (apperantly estrogen plays a part in the bladder)

 

[TheBeard]

To see if your blood levels mirror/differ from your tissue levels.

You also mentioned previously taking exemestane which can cause an increase in estrogen uptake in the tissues.

I have the symptoms and the serum levels of low estrogens.
I doubt tissue analysis would show otherwise. If I have the symptoms, it means that the tissue is being affected by low e2, doesn't it?

Someone with low serum e2 but symptoms of high e2 would benefit from such a tissue analysis, in all logic.

 

[Mossy]

If anti-estrogen supps make our joints hurt, etc., and the Peat perspective holds that estrogen is so prevalent via food and a sub-optimal body, why couldn’t someone eat PUFA or other pro-estrogen foods, or take pro-estrogen supps, to counter the anti-estrogen effects?

I ask this as someone who is having joint pain from aspirin, and has just eaten a fast food sandwich (PUFA and pro-estrogen, no doubt). Should the sandwich balance out the supposed low estrogen?

 

[Goobz]

If anti-estrogen supps make our joints hurt, etc., and the Peat perspective holds that estrogen is so prevalent via food and a sub-optimal body, why couldn’t someone eat PUFA or other pro-estrogen foods, or take pro-estrogen supps, to counter the anti-estrogen effects?

I ask this as someone who is having joint pain from aspirin, and has just eaten a fast food sandwich (PUFA and pro-estrogen, no doubt). Should the sandwich balance out the supposed low estrogen?

Yeah I don’t think estrogen can really be accurately measured with aspirin and sandwiches...