Blocking Estrogen In Brain Strikingly Anabolic For Female Muscles / Bones

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haidut

haidut

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Haha, yah but some people don't seem to understand this, especially since tobacco has been demonized so much.

Tea is generally considered healthy by the mainstream, but that doesn't mean smoking it is going to be so great.

Another example would be something like kale. You would expect it to be unhealthy to smoke the stuff lol.

It's possible that both of these examples could be worse than tobacco, who the heck knows. Nobody is smoking 2 packs of kale a day for 50 years.

Many of the smoke risks can me greatly mitigated by using a good filter. Activated charcoal filter would be best but no company makes cigarettes with these. You have to buy them yourself and RYO. Older manufacturing practices in the 1940s and 1950s used charcoal in some of the filters and the incidence of lung, esophageal, mouth/throat, etc cancers (most commonly linked to smoking) was very low during those times.
I am not saying smoking is a slam dunk healthy habit. But it is quiet obvious it is now a political issue and as such its truth cannot be reliably judged based on officially sanctioned studies. Again, some Caribbean countries average 4-5 cigars per day (for males) combined with a glass of rum (usually) with each cigar. Yet, many of those countries have among the highest life expectancy and among the lowest cancer rates in the world. Their number one killer is usually either starvation, natural disaster, or infectious disease. Not cancer, diabetes, CVD, dementia, etc.
BBC NEWS | Americas | Cigars and sex 'boost Cuba lives'

So, even if you think the BBC link is far fetched and smoking is not responsible for the increased longevity at the very least you have to admit that it is certainly not reducing lifespan. And that last part flies in the face of everything published on smoking in the last 30 years claiming that each cigarette/cigar shortens life by several minutes, not to mention the increase in risk for pretty much all diseases.
 

Wagner83

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... Their number one killer is usually either starvation, natural disaster, or infectious disease. Not cancer, diabetes, CVD, dementia, etc.
...
Do you think that pufa-storage aside, calorie restriction could be quite protective against diabetes, dementia, cancer etc..?
 
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haidut

haidut

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Do you think that pufa-storage aside, calorie restriction could be quite protective against diabetes, dementia, cancer etc..?

I already posted a study showing that benefits of fasting are due to lower endotoxin. There is nothing special to fasting beyound lower endotoxin and lower PUFA (initially). After a few days of chronic fasting stress hormones become chronically elevated and all hell breaks loose. The increased lipolysis alone is pretty bad. That's probably why cancer patients see great response from fasting for up to a week and then their tumor becomes really aggressive.
The Benefits Of Fasting Are Due To Lowering Endotoxin (LPS), Not Less Calories
 

Momado965

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Many of the smoke risks can me greatly mitigated by using a good filter. Activated charcoal filter would be best but no company makes cigarettes with these. You have to buy them yourself and RYO. Older manufacturing practices in the 1940s and 1950s used charcoal in some of the filters and the incidence of lung, esophageal, mouth/throat, etc cancers (most commonly linked to smoking) was very low during those times.
I am not saying smoking is a slam dunk healthy habit. But it is quiet obvious it is now a political issue and as such its truth cannot be reliably judged based on officially sanctioned studies. Again, some Caribbean countries average 4-5 cigars per day (for males) combined with a glass of rum (usually) with each cigar. Yet, many of those countries have among the highest life expectancy and among the lowest cancer rates in the world. Their number one killer is usually either starvation, natural disaster, or infectious disease. Not cancer, diabetes, CVD, dementia, etc.
BBC NEWS | Americas | Cigars and sex 'boost Cuba lives'

So, even if you think the BBC link is far fetched and smoking is not responsible for the increased longevity at the very least you have to admit that it is certainly not reducing lifespan. And that last part flies in the face of everything published on smoking in the last 30 years claiming that each cigarette/cigar shortens life by several minutes, not to mention the increase in risk for pretty much all diseases.

Any ideas on how to create a carbon filter?
 
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haidut

haidut

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Any ideas on how to create a carbon filter?

I don't know how to make one but you can buy them online. Just search for "activated charcoal filter" (without quotes).
 

Momado965

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I don't know how to make one but you can buy them online. Just search for "activated charcoal filter" (without quotes).

Lol, I googled them with quotes, NOT! I couldn't find charcoal cig filters online.
 
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Makrosky

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@haidut
What about eating tobacco? Is it problematic for the gut? If it isn't, would it have the same effects as smoking it?
It can be done for medicinal purposes but you have to be very careful, an OD of it can kill you.

Also tobacco juice/paste has a terrible taste and burns when it goes down the throat. And produces nausea as well.
 
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Makrosky

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The health issues with smoking aren't mainly to do with nicotine. There are many harmful compounds in cigarette smoke, and I would think regularly inhaling any sort of smoke would be damaging to the lungs.

Iron researcher E.D. Weinberg has suggested that the main harm caused by cigarette smoking is inhaling excess iron

Most of the harms from smoking is from the tobacco treatment (ammonia) and other toxins they add such as flame retardants, anti-mold, etc. Pure tobacco, smoked through an activated charcoal filter is probably not nearly as bad and may even be...healthy??

I just want to add that tobacco leaves are very prone to accumulate mold/aflatoxins and pesticides. Shuting those two things to your lungs might be also responsible for the great deal of problems associated with smoking.

There are a lot of studies in pubmed regarding aflatoxins and tobacco and some researchers wonder if the lung problems are caused by a great extent by the aflatoxins.

I think @Travis also posted information of tobacco accumulating some kind of radiation that... you also shut it you your lungs if you smoke.

Regarding cuban cigars and stuff like that... I think a proper drying of the leaves greatly reduces aflatoxins but doesn't guarantee 100% aflatoxin free tobacco. So to that regard, and only to that one, commercial ones are safer.

In some parts of America they prepare a tobacco paste (like this) mixed with ashes and I have the broscience feeling that that one is free of aflatoxins, just like nixtamalized corn is free of them. The nixtamalization with the ashes kills the aflatoxins. Wikipedia :
Nixtamalization /nɪʃtəməlaɪˈzeɪʃən/ typically refers to a process for the preparation of maize (corn), or other grain, in which the corn is soaked and cooked in an alkaline solution, usually limewater (but sometimes wood ash lye[1]) washed, and then hulled. This process is known to remove up to 97–100% of aflatoxins from mycotoxin-contaminated corn.[2]

Also for the record : With the "cuban cigars" and other kind of american cigars, you normally don't inhale the smoke. Just keep it in the mouth.

Sigmund Freud was a daily cuban cigar smoker and died from a terrible mouth cancer. Correlation doesn't imply causation you know but... I don't think smoking anything is good.
 
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Amazigh

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I remember hearing RP back in 2012 mentioning nicotinic acid (Niacin) having similar properties. I can't remember if he mentioned niacinamide as well.
 

InChristAlone

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I think the main difference is the manufacturing methods and the additional processing that cigarettes undergo. Kind of like the difference between a steak and a burger. With steak, you mostly know what you are getting, but just about anything can be ground and put into a "burger". Many cigars are hand made and all they have in them is tobacco. I think in cigarettes, up to 30% is something other than tobacco and (similar to food labeling) if a certain ingredient does not cross a specific threshold amount it does not even have to be reported. Tobacco by itself has been shown to be non-carcinogenic to rodents, even as smoke, while cigarettes have. So, something in those cigarettes is giving cancer. The food and pharma industry conveniently exclude countries like Cuba and Dominican Republic from their longevity studies because otherwise they'd have to explain how come heavy cigar-smoking and rum-drinking populations live for so long.
Methanol which converts to formaldehyde.
 

facesavant

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In yet another great example of "synchronicity" (Synchronicity - Wikipedia), just a few days after posting the study on lack of estrogen and muscle growth, another fascinating study popped into my mailbox.
Estrogen Is NOT Needed For Either Muscle Or Bone Growth / Anabolism

Now, the study below add to the evidence that estrogen is not only not needed for muscle growth and bone health, but blocking its effects (in the brain) leads to such remarkably dense/strong bones in females (mice) that no other known model can even come close to. Simultaneously, the muscle mass of those females also increased dramatically and the authors think the two effects are not a coincidence. I don't know why the effects of blocking estrogen in males were much less pronounced than in females, but I suspect it is due to surges in progesterone activity. Progesterone is highly anabolic in females, but not so much in males. Be that as it may, hopefully this study will lead to serious reconsideration of estrogen therapy in females. The authors think that the anabolism from blocking estrogen in the brain reduces mating and physical activity in the females, and the resulting surplus of energy was diverted towards bone/muscle building. I guess it is another way of saying that stress is bad for women's bones/muscles and blocking the stress hormone (estrogen) allowed the females to grow as much as there is food available. I really see no reason why the same would not be true in males and the authors clearly state that blocking estrogen in brain would be therapeutic for both sexes even if this specific study did not find much anabolism for males.
@Blossom @tara @Sheila @AretnaP @Wagner83 @Lokzo @RisingSun @jb116 @tankasnowgod
@opethfeldt

Estrogen signaling in arcuate <i>Kiss1</i> neurons suppresses a sex-dependent female circuit promoting dense strong bones

"...Esr1Nkx2-1Cre females exhibited a sex-dependent change in energy balance that was entirely absent in male mice. The lean mass of mutant females was significantly higher than control floxed (Esr1fl/fl) littermates (Fig. 1d) and was accompanied by decreased physical activity during the dark phase (Fig. 1e and Supplementary Figure 2C). Although highly significant, increased lean mass observed in mutant females failed to change their overall mobility and muscle strength as measured by rotarod and grip strength assays, respectively (Supplementary Figure 2D, E). Blunted BAT thermogenesis was observed in mutant females as evidenced by whitening of BAT and decreased Ucp1 levels; circulating catecholamines were not lower (Fig. 1f and Supplementary Figures 2F, G). Serum leptin levels were also unchanged (Fig. 1g). Thus, these data reveal that central estrogen signaling in this brain region promotes a sex-dependent negative energy state in females in the absence of any change in feeding behavior. This unexpected finding implies that the hyperphagia reported for Esr1POMC-Cre mice might result from selective or ectopic activity of POMC-Cre in non-ARC neurons8."

"...Strikingly, bone mineral density (BMD), as determined by dual X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), was significantly elevated in Esr1Nkx2-1Crefemales, but not males (Fig. 1h), consistent with the sex-dependent significant increases in lean mass. Further analyses of femoral bone, using three-dimensional high resolution micro-computed tomography (µCT), confirmed a striking increase in trabecular bone mass and microarchitecture in older Esr1Nkx2-1Cre females compared to control littermates (Fig. 2a). Mutant females exhibited a ~500% increase in fractional bone volume in the distal femur, rising from 11 to 52 bone volume/tissue volume (BV/TV) (%) (Fig. 2a). A similar trend was found for vertebral bone (Supplementary Figure 3A). Accompanying structural changes included increases in trabecular number and thickness and reduced trabecular separation (Fig. 2a). Mutant females also exhibited a significant increase in cortical thickness but a modest decrease in tibial and femoral length (Supplementary Figure 3B). This striking skeletal phenotype is sex-dependent, as no changes in bone mass were observed in Esr1Nkx2-1Cre males (Fig. 2b). Further, unlike the 20% increase in femoral bone mass reported for Esr1POMC-Cre and Esr1Nestin-Cre mice that vanishes in OVX females, bone parameters in Esr1Nkx2-1Crefemales remained elevated 5 weeks following ovariectomy (Fig. 2c). In fact, no significant changes in serum sex steroids (E2, T) were detected in 4–5-week-old mutant females when the high bone mass phenotype is clearly present (Fig. 2d, f)."

"...Pituitary and thyroid hormones in mutant females were also unchanged at 7–8 weeks of age (Supplementary Figure 3C). Removing circulating androgens in juvenile Esr1Nkx2-1Cre males by castration failed to elevate their bone mass, implying that male gonadal hormones are unable to account for the lack of high bone mass in Esr1Nkx2-1Cre males (Supplementary Figure 3D). These data imply that while the high BMD in Esr1Nkx2-1Crefemales is partially maintained by ovarian steroids, elevated levels of circulating E2 or pituitary hormones are not the primary drivers of this sex-dependent bone phenotype."

"...Mechanical bone strength tests established that femora and L5 vertebrae in older Esr1Nkx2-1Cre females were substantially stronger than controls (Fig. 2e). The dense skeletal phenotype in Esr1Nkx2-1Cre females observed in femoral and vertebral trabecular bone emerged early and continued to persist in older females (54–74 weeks), exceeding values found for OVX mutant females (Fig. 2c, f, g). Thus, trabecular bone, which becomes porous and more fragile in osteoporosis, is remarkably dense and durable in older Esr1Nkx2-1Cre females. Upregulation of bone metabolism in Esr1Nkx2-1Cre females was not associated with ectopic Cre expression in femoral bone (Supplementary Figure 3F). Representative H&E stained femoral bone sections from juvenile female mice illustrate the striking increase in bone density accompanied by a marked decrease in bone marrow space (Fig. 2h). Despite a narrowing of the bone marrow cavity, no differences in spleen weights were observed in mutant females compared to controls at all ages examined (Supplementary Figure 3E)."

"...Our investigation to understand the complex role of estrogen signaling in the MBH establishes that ERα-expressing Kiss1 ARC neurons are central to restraining a powerful brain–bone axis in female mice. This assertion stems from the sex-dependent, high bone mass phenotype that emerged from three independent, intersectional strategies that target central ERα signaling. When compared with other mouse models that alter bone remodeling, several prominent features emerge from our results. In particular, the only model that, to our knowledge, rivals the magnitude of volumetric bone density increase observed in Esr1Kiss1-Cre and Esr1Nkx2-1Cre females is the sclerostin null (Sost−/−) mouse40,41. However, the Sost−/− bone phenotype is observed in both sexes and the connectivity density is substantially lower40. Moreover, we find that selectively removing ERα in the ARC of older, estrogen depleted females results in an impressive ~50% increase in bone density, indicating a potential therapeutic value in manipulating this female neuroskeletal circuit. Disrupting this neuroskeletal circuit enhances genetic pathways associated with osteogenesis and results in fully functional mature bones with exceptional strength. When considered alongside the well-established role of peripheral estrogen in the prevention of bone loss42, our findings illustrate that the same hypothalamic neurons used to restrain the onset of puberty also inhibit anabolic bone metabolism in females. We speculate that once this female ERα-dependent brain-to-bone pathway is disturbed, energetic resources are funneled into bone and diverted away from reproduction and energy expenditure (Fig. 6f)."

"...Given that prodynorphin, a marker of KNDy ARC neurons is suppressed by estrogen, but not by tamoxifen46, one might also speculate that some of the bone-sparing effects of this selective ERα modulator47 stem from its antagonist activity in the ARC."

"... That sclerostin, a known repressor of bone metabolism is elevated in Esr1Nkx2-1Cre mutants implies that their massive increase in female volumetric bone mass is independent of sclerostin. Thus, we conclude that the high bone mass in our mouse models results from activation of a potent signaling pathway that promotes bone formation by a humoral mechanism and is initiated in the brain."

"...In summary, our work reveals an unprecedented sex-dependent bone phenotype and provides unequivocal proof of brain-to-bone signaling55. Furthermore, our findings demonstrate the importance of central estrogen signaling (which exists in a coregulatory system with peripheral estrogen) in the maintenance of bone homeostasis in females. Breaking this neuroskeletal homeostatic circuit in young and old females promotes anabolic bone metabolism and provides a model for further mechanistic investigations that might eventually provide opportunities to counteract age-related osteoporosis in both women and men."
Apparently, progesterone can cause breast cancer too.
 

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