Peat Is Right About Amino Acids / Gelatin

somuch4food

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It only happens if i take 20-30g of Glyine powder, lower doses like 5-10g of Glycine are fine (Gelatine contains 25% Glycine).

Yeah, I meant that it probably had a compounding effect. Dry air and hot liquids are no good for my nose and gelatin seems to make it worse, but I'm fine when it's in a Jello form.
 

Inaut

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@Cirion is it possible the blood was from hemmorhoids? Maybe stool was too hard? Not sure where the thread is at
 
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Cirion

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@Cirion is it possible the blood was from hemmorhoids? Maybe stool was too hard? Not sure where the thread is at

The problem popped up right after I started increasing gelatin intake to a large amount. I was informed that glycine is a blood thinner and could cause bleeding as such. So I'll probably decrease dosage by a half until I get to the grocery store and get some spinach for vitamin K to hopefully buffer against the blood thinning and then try increasing the dose again.

I just find it weird, because ray peat explicitly says gelatin is effective at CONTROLLING bleeding. So I am confused though.

Gelatin, stress, longevity

At the time Selye was observing stress-induced bleeding, standard medicine was putting gelatin to use--orally, subcutaneously, and intravenously--to control bleeding. Since ancient times, it had been used to stop bleeding by applying it to wounds, and this had finally been incorporated into medical practice.

The 1936 Cyclopedia of Medicine (G.M. Piersol, editor, volume 6) mentions the use of gelatin solution to quickly control nosebleeds, excessive menstrual bleeding, bleeding ulcers (using three doses of 18 grams as a 10% solution during one day), and bleeding from hemorrhoids and the lower bowel, and hemorrhage from the bladder. But since Selye's work relating the thrombohemorrhagic syndromes to stress wasn't known at that time, gelatin was thought of as a useful drug, rather than as having potentially far-reaching physiological effects, antagonizing some of the agents of stress-induced tissue damage.

This quote even says bleeding from hemorrhoids should be stopped not aggravated by gelatin. So why do I seemingly get the opposite effect?
 
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Inaut

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Maybe it was just a tough stool? Back to the shadows I go
 
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Cirion

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allright I talked a tough game but after today I can't take it, I will take one day off entirely lol and then cut in half for sure. I was doing fine the first day or two when I was at the half dose (36g). today I completely lost count how many bowel movements i have had and that wouldn't bother me... if they weren't painful, arghhh... lol. I mean, I already have a lot of bowel movements a day, but the gelatin seems to stimulate it even more. I will stay at that dose for a week, while adding in spinach for the vitamin K, and if all is well for a week I will try to bring up the dose again.
 
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Cirion

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Ok so it was definitely either the vitamin E or the gelatin or both. I eliminated both and already feel better. Slightly irritable bowel movement this morning but way less painful and did not see blood.

I am hoping that if I just bring gelatin back, and not the vitamin E, that it should be ok. Especially if I add spinach or parsley for the natural K.

As I suspected, the brain fog from the tryptophan in the milk is coming back due to taking out gelatin, so I definitely am bringing back gelatin asap at, at least a 50% dosage of before.
 

brocktoon

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And how the heck are niacinamide and aspirin making you fat? I had always though they provided a significant boost tot he metabolism as well as preventing the release of stored PUFA.
Here's something haidut said on niacinamide that I found interesting:
"It (niacinamide) will lower systemic lipolysis, so it will slow down weight loss if that is your goal. Usually, peripheral adiposity and liver fat are inversely correlated. Inhibiting excessive lipolysis leans out the liver but keeps the fat pads on your belly for longer."
 
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Thanks, good info. Yeah it is starting to sound like people here aren't having luck with K2. Time to bring spinach back into my diet...

if you aren't already, its best to cook greens in some form of fat to increase bioavailability of the fat solubles.
K2 is great for bone metabolism, but as a coagulant agent, it isn't very good in my experience. I eat parsley with meat, and also I use taurine right after the meal, so I'm hoping that's enough to improve absorption.

Ok so it was definitely either the vitamin E or the gelatin or both. I eliminated both and already feel better. Slightly irritable bowel movement this morning but way less painful and did not see blood.

I am hoping that if I just bring gelatin back, and not the vitamin E, that it should be ok. Especially if I add spinach or parsley for the natural K.

As I suspected, the brain fog from the tryptophan in the milk is coming back due to taking out gelatin, so I definitely am bringing back gelatin asap at, at least a 50% dosage of before.
Do you already use theanine? It can help lower serotonin. Maybe combining it with a lower dose of gelatin can work for now. Also, the lower the serotonin levels, the less the blood clots( I think that's the reason estrogen therapy can cause strokes), so maybe that means a faster metabolism naturally needs more vitamin K.
 
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Cirion

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Honestly I am starting to remove supplements from my stack not add them. I think Ray Peat was right - once you start eliminating most supplements that you start to get better. Once again, I think he is proving me wrong that you need supplements. The only supplement I have consistently is magnesium, salt, sometimes vitamin D (May remove this too), though may add in back vitamin C. So I've lost interest in playing with taurine or theanine even though I do have them on hand. Anyway...

I got impatient lol and went straight back to 72g gelatin yesterday. I slept 12 hrs only waking up once to use the restroom and not needing to eat any food to go back to sleep. I woke up feeling mildly drugged like feeling and some what cold hands but I did have a waking temp of 98.4F so there is that and that was weird in the context of cold hands lol. The gelatin almost certainly helped me to get to sleep and stay asleep it seems. And had a nice firm stool in the morning that was not painful and no blood. So yes... looks like it was the vitamin E.

Interesting theory BTW about needing more vitamin K with faster metabolism. That's a possibility.

Thanks for the useful posts. Especially the one on Vitamin E saved me a lot of pain (literally LOL). That is why I love these forums. The things you learn on a daily basis are invaluable
 

stevski

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Glycine isnt the culprit. estrogen, PUFA and B vitamin deficiency is.

"Estrogen tends to interfere with the formation of niacin from tryptophan. Tryptophan, rather than forming the sedative niacin (pyridine carboxylic acid), can be directed toward formation of the excitatory quinolinic acid (pyridine dicarboxylic acid) by polyunsaturated fatty acids. Excitation must be in balance with a cell's energetic resources, and niacinamide can play multiple protective roles, decreasing excitation, increasing energy production, and stabilizing repair systems."

"A 3 year-old child who had been having an average of 3 nosebleeds every day, during a nap and at night, for several months, also had an extreme behavior problem. He became angry and sometimes violent when he went a little longer than normal between meals. After an oral dose of about ten milligrams of riboflavin, he was able to sleep without having another recurrence of the nosebleeds, and his tantrums became rare. Apparently, the nerve-regulated vasodilation produced by sleep, combined with a riboflavin deficiency, had been enough to produce nosebleeds. "

Rosacea, inflammation, and aging: The inefficiency of stress
 

brocktoon

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Glycine isnt the culprit. estrogen, PUFA and B vitamin deficiency is.

"Estrogen tends to interfere with the formation of niacin from tryptophan. Tryptophan, rather than forming the sedative niacin (pyridine carboxylic acid), can be directed toward formation of the excitatory quinolinic acid (pyridine dicarboxylic acid) by polyunsaturated fatty acids. Excitation must be in balance with a cell's energetic resources, and niacinamide can play multiple protective roles, decreasing excitation, increasing energy production, and stabilizing repair systems."

"A 3 year-old child who had been having an average of 3 nosebleeds every day, during a nap and at night, for several months, also had an extreme behavior problem. He became angry and sometimes violent when he went a little longer than normal between meals. After an oral dose of about ten milligrams of riboflavin, he was able to sleep without having another recurrence of the nosebleeds, and his tantrums became rare. Apparently, the nerve-regulated vasodilation produced by sleep, combined with a riboflavin deficiency, had been enough to produce nosebleeds. "

Rosacea, inflammation, and aging: The inefficiency of stress
Thanks, Stevski.
 
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Cirion

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So 10mg a day B2 is recommended, especially if one is hypo?
 

Dotdash

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So 10mg a day B2 is recommended, especially if one is hypo?
I think I've read that 10mg B6 is considered a not to exceed dose for decreasing estrogen. Riboflavin and B6 have a correlation that, if I remember correctly, is 1:1. They need to be balanced with each other.
 

sladerunner69

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Here's something haidut said on niacinamide that I found interesting:
"It (niacinamide) will lower systemic lipolysis, so it will slow down weight loss if that is your goal. Usually, peripheral adiposity and liver fat are inversely correlated. Inhibiting excessive lipolysis leans out the liver but keeps the fat pads on your belly for longer."

The idea of "excessive lipolysis" is not something I want to believe in. He is likely right, however.
 
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Cirion

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Had to drop to half intake again. I think 72g gelatin is too much for long-term use. Have been doing 36g several days in a row now. Pain level of bowel movements finally seems to be settling down. I am wondering if part of it too was due to reaction to hydrogenated coconut oil too, or at least too much of it. As much as I hate to say it, I think you do need more unique sources of fat than just HCO. I brought back some cheese and bowel movements have been less painful, sometimes no pain at all. Or maybe the HCO was displacing so much estrogen that a lot of it was coming out of the body? Who knows.

At least for me, around 36 gram of gelatin seems to be the sweet spot of not too little or too much.
 

brocktoon

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I think I've read that 10mg B6 is considered a not to exceed dose for decreasing estrogen. Riboflavin and B6 have a correlation that, if I remember correctly, is 1:1. They need to be balanced with each other.
Can I ask what you mean by 10 mg of B6 being "a not to exceed dose for decreasing estrogen"? I take 40 mg of B6 and 100 mg B2 per day, and I want reduce my high estradiol level.
 

Dotdash

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Can I ask what you mean by 10 mg of B6 being "a not to exceed dose for decreasing estrogen"? I take 40 mg of B6 and 100 mg B2 per day, and I want reduce my high estradiol level.

It is my understanding he means that amounts greater than 10mg B6 increases estrogen rather than decreasing it. I no longer know where the quote is or if he said it in an interview. Perhaps someone else can chime it who readily knows where to locate it. Perhaps there is something in the Estroban product description thread. Haidut designed it on the basis of what works to reduce estrogen.
 

Blossom

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It is my understanding he means that amounts greater than 10mg B6 increases estrogen rather than decreasing it. I no longer know where the quote is or if he said it in an interview. Perhaps someone else can chime it who readily knows where to locate it. Perhaps there is something in the Estroban product description thread. Haidut designed it on the basis of what works to reduce estrogen.
From the forum wiki
. A little vitamin B6 (10 mg) can help with amino acid metabolism. [https://raypeatforum.com/comm ...of progesterone to estrogen. Extra salt in your food, and a little vitamin B6 could help to lower the prolactin.
 

milk_lover

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When I tried BCAA's I felt miserably apathetic. I think they lower both dopamine and serotonin, simultaneously inhibiting both from the brain.



More correctly, the amino acid would be glycine. I see what you are getting at, though. And how the heck are niacinamide and aspirin making you fat? I had always though they provided a significant boost tot he metabolism as well as preventing the release of stored PUFA. That boost should help you to burn more calories, right?
I honestly don't know why they make me fat and bloated. Maybe my stomach is sensitive to them. Sensitivity and allergenicity can induce bad side effects like increase histamine, serotonin and estrogen.
 

Dotdash

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Mittir Member

RP has mentioned in KMUD interview that 10 mg of B6 is far beyond people's daily requirement. He recommended one should start with 10 mg for therapeutic use. Someone asked him about active and inactive form of B6. He mentioned that people are more likely to over dose on active form. I occasionally use 2-5 mg of regular B6 and i get head ache from 10 mg.

This was a 2014 comment by Mittr.
 

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