Peat Is Right About Amino Acids / Gelatin

[jb116]

does b6 help the conversion to niacin ?

and what about taking niacinamide too ?

B6 as well as B2

 

[Cirion]

Maybe I will start having Nutritional yeast again for B vit's. i started to get lazy with it. I can add it to my carrot salad or something.

 

[tankasnowgod]

When I tried BCAA's I felt miserably apathetic. I think they lower both dopamine and serotonin, simultaneously inhibiting both from the brain.

They certainly do, if taken on their own. If taken with a meal or tyrosine or phenelanaline, it usually lowers serotonin while preserving or even raising dopamine. But of course, this could depend on the amount taken, and the individual as well.

 

[Cirion]

So a few more days of having high dose gelatin... I have a new issue... I am having some rather painful bowel movements, and I will say a SLIGHT amount of blood in the stool (maybe a couple drops, not anything that is stressing me out too much) the pain is what is getting me though. Afterwards though, I notice something interesting. I get all hot and sweaty and my body temperature goes up. Often times after one of these painful bowel movements my temp may go to 99F or even as high as 99.5F.

Is this because gelatin is flushing out some gunk from my body that was suppressing my metabolism, and the purging is painful because it's some bad stuff like estrogen and whatnot?

It's weird because Ray Peat says in his gelatin article that gelatin should CURE problems like bloody stools and internal bleeding not potentially introduce them? Should I tone down my gelatin intake? I am doing 72gram a day now. It's a lot, to be sure, but I am pretty sure RP says you can go as high as 100g without problems and Haidut went to 128g, although at that point he did say you get nausea symptoms.

 

[Spondive]

So a few more days of having high dose gelatin... I have a new issue... I am having some rather painful bowel movements, and I will say a SLIGHT amount of blood in the stool (maybe a couple drops, not anything that is stressing me out too much) the pain is what is getting me though. Afterwards though, I notice something interesting. I get all hot and sweaty and my body temperature goes up. Often times after one of these painful bowel movements my temp may go to 99F or even as high as 99.5F.

Is this because gelatin is flushing out some gunk from my body that was suppressing my metabolism, and the purging is painful because it's some bad stuff like estrogen and whatnot?

It's weird because Ray Peat says in his gelatin article that gelatin should CURE problems like bloody stools and internal bleeding not potentially introduce them? Should I tone down my gelatin intake? I am doing 72gram a day now. It's a lot, to be sure, but I am pretty sure RP says you can go as high as 100g without problems and Haidut went to 128g, although at that point he did say you get nausea symptoms.

How do you feel in general besides your bowel issues?

 

[Cirion]

It does still seem to improve my sleep. I have noticed less muscle pains as well. For a while I was starting to get some random aches and pains and chalked it up to the weight gain adding stress to my body, but now those are almost gone. I also notice my body gets quite warm when I eat jello. So it has to be metabolically beneficial.

I am going to keep at it. My intuition/gut is telling me that it is doing me good in the long run. I feel like I'm right that the problem is I am finally flushing out, what is possibly old fecal matter and excess estrogen etc, if some of that crap has been lingering in there for a while, I can see why it would be painful coming out.

Like I said, the fact that my body temperature rises as much as 1-1.5F after the bowel movement, lends me to believe whatever I expelled was suppressing my metabolism.

If I have been glycine deficient for some time, it will not cure itself overnight, but I hope with large dosing (72g of gelatin a day) it should resolve itself somewhat quickly.

I will continue to monitor blood in the stools, and as long as it does not exceed a drop or two of blood, I am not going to worry too much about it.

 

[Mary Lyn]

@Cirion

I think that it would not be wise to make assumptions or ignore the blood. I would get a doctor to check it out to be on the safe side.

 

[Cirion]

Well today I have now noticed two more things

1. My muscles seem sore, but not in a painful way like when you worked out too hard, more like... a very subtle feeling. -> leads me to believe the gelatin is starting to do something in my muscles for sure. I feel this "Soreness" in every muscle in my body, legs, arms, glutes, calves... Perhaps some of the pain from bowel movements was flushing lactic acid from muscles?? Additionally, the overall muscular pain I was having problems with seems even less (aside from the "Soreness")

2. Today I woke up almost the first time that I can recall in forever actually almost refreshed, and with only 5-6 hr of sleep too.

I hear ya on the blood. I will get concerned if the amount gets worse. I had two more painful bowel movements right as I woke up this morning, but felt great right after & I didn't notice even one drop of blood this time.

 

[Lukas]

Glycine makes your blood thinner. I get nosebleeds if I take too much Glycine. If you are taking Aspirin or vitamin E at the same time it is probably too much. I would lower the dose for a couple of days and see if the problems stop. For me the nosebleeds go away 1 or 2 days after I quit taking Glycine.

 

[Cirion]

Glycine makes your blood thinner. I get nosebleeds if I take too much Glycine. If you are taking Aspirin or vitamin E at the same time it is probably too much. I would lower the dose for a couple of days and see if the problems stop. For me the nosebleeds go away 1 or 2 days after I quit taking Glycine.

I did not know that about glycine. Thanks that probably explains it. And yes I also take 1000-2000 IU of vitamin E a day (Did not really notice any bleeding with just the vitamin E). I do seem to react pretty sensitively to blood thinners. I tried 1G a day of aspirin for a while (I no longer take aspirin) and I started getting painful bruising on my right thigh (The bruising has since gone away after stopping taking aspirin), even though I take 5mg vitamin K too. I am not getting nose bleeds though.

Am I not taking enough K2 to counteract things? I still take the 5mg K2. Are there other strategies I can employ besides K2 or dropping gelatin (glycine) intake? I guess I should stop taking vitamin E? The thing is that I don't notice things like benefit with sleep without the high dosages, so I'll drop dosage if I have to, but I would prefer to find other approaches first. I also increased dosage because getting most of my protein from milk was problematic for me due to all the tryptophan I was getting. Tryptophan knocks me out like a heavy duty sedative drug, and increasing the gelatin has really been helping in that department.

I am seeing a pretty long list of Pro's personally from high dose gelatin, aside from the painful bowel movements, so I'd like to keep the pro's and eliminate the one con if I can...

 

[Lukas]

Vitamin K didn't stop the bleeding for me, but it may be different in your case.

 

[Cirion]

I find time and time again that food trumps supplements. I may bring back spinach in my diet for K. Yeah there is some hate around here on vegetables sometimes but I think they have their place sometimes.

 

[somuch4food]

Glycine makes your blood thinner. I get nosebleeds if I take too much Glycine. If you are taking Aspirin or vitamin E at the same time it is probably too much. I would lower the dose for a couple of days and see if the problems stop. For me the nosebleeds go away 1 or 2 days after I quit taking Glycine.

I didn't know that. No wonder I got one of my worst nosebleeds (I had to put ice on it to stop it from bleeding) when I woke up the night after drinking a hot chocolate with added gelatin. Hot beverages alone are a trigger for me and I combined it with yet another potential trigger.

On another note, I'm finding even a low dose of gelatin helpful. I don't know how you can eat such amounts. About a cup of Jello seems to satiate me.

This morning I added a Jello shot to my breakfast and felt much warmer afterwards.

 

[Cirion]

Turns out what I thought was restful sleep was just waking up via adrenaline. Lol. Still, that's probably better than in the past waking up immediately tired. Waking up tired off the bat means adrenaline was already secreted and worn out aka "adrenal fatigue". Waking up with adrenaline is no good either but its better than the former scenario which is what I am used to happening so that's actually still progress for me.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Yeah probably but there is no sense suffering through it if I can mitigate it with gelatin.

My temps are actually fairly good for the most part. Usually I can get to 98.6-99+ soon after morning coffee and can maintain it the whole day. I do still struggle getting good sleep / maintaining temperature during sleep though.

I briefly tried thyroid but didn't like it. It made me feel worse.

I know you’re iron status is good but just in spite of all the iron discussions we had and my opinion that adequate levels is necessary for health although optimal levels seems to vary individual to individual this study is quite interesting regarding irons effect on tryptophan converting to niacin instead of serotonin.

Iron deficiency reduces the efficacy of tryptophan as a niacin precursor. - PubMed - NCBI

iron deficiency reduced tryptophan utilization (for NAD synthesis

 

[Cirion]

I know you’re iron status is good but just in spite of all the iron discussions we had and my opinion that adequate levels is necessary for health although optimal levels seems to vary individual to individual this study is quite interesting regarding irons effect on tryptophan converting to niacin instead of serotonin.

Iron deficiency reduces the efficacy of tryptophan as a niacin precursor. - PubMed - NCBI

iron deficiency reduced tryptophan utilization (for NAD synthesis

That is interesting indeed. It's not necessarily an indication I need more iron, but again, it might be.

So I just had a random thought. What if people who are trying to recover from hypo need higher iron than those who are not hypo? Maybe in hypo, the body is desperate to try to restore a natural state of metabolism, but simply can not without the building blocks to do so? With iron being one of those.

Also, it might be interesting to note that Stan Efferding's "Vertical Diet" has red meat as the main protein source (Iron) and Stan definitely talks about the benefits of iron for a robust metabolism. At least when it comes from natural food sources.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

It does still seem to improve my sleep. I have noticed less muscle pains as well. For a while I was starting to get some random aches and pains and chalked it up to the weight gain adding stress to my body, but now those are almost gone. I also notice my body gets quite warm when I eat jello. So it has to be metabolically beneficial.

I am going to keep at it. My intuition/gut is telling me that it is doing me good in the long run. I feel like I'm right that the problem is I am finally flushing out, what is possibly old fecal matter and excess estrogen etc, if some of that crap has been lingering in there for a while, I can see why it would be painful coming out.

Like I said, the fact that my body temperature rises as much as 1-1.5F after the bowel movement, lends me to believe whatever I expelled was suppressing my metabolism.

If I have been glycine deficient for some time, it will not cure itself overnight, but I hope with large dosing (72g of gelatin a day) it should resolve itself somewhat quickly.

I will continue to monitor blood in the stools, and as long as it does not exceed a drop or two of blood, I am not going to worry too much about it.

A long time ago, my nostrils bled a little after I started using gelatin, but it never happened again. Nowadays I eat 50 grams of it all at once and don't notice any problems. Regarding the blood in stool, the only time I saw it was when I was eating a ton of yams. Some people report that vitamin K2 doesn't do much for blood clotting and that vitamin K1 works better. I eat steamed parsley for vitamin K1, because only 30 grams of it has almost 0,5 miligrams of this vitamin. Beet greens are also a very good source, as is spinach.

 

[Cirion]

A long time ago, my nostrils bled a little after I started using gelatin, but it never happened again. Nowadays I eat 50 grams of it all at once and don't notice any problems. Regarding the blood in stool, the only time I saw it was when I was eating a ton of yams. Some people report that vitamin K2 doesn't do much for blood clotting and that vitamin K1 works better. I eat steamed parsley for vitamin K1, because only 30 grams of it has almost 0,5 miligrams of this vitamin. Beet greens are also a very good source, as is spinach.

Thanks, good info. Yeah it is starting to sound like people here aren't having luck with K2. Time to bring spinach back into my diet...

if you aren't already, its best to cook greens in some form of fat to increase bioavailability of the fat solubles.

 

[Lukas]

I didn't know that. No wonder I got one of my worst nosebleeds (I had to put ice on it to stop it from bleeding) when I woke up the night after drinking a hot chocolate with added gelatin. Hot beverages alone are a trigger for me and I combined it with yet another potential trigger.

On another note, I'm finding even a low dose of gelatin helpful. I don't know how you can eat such amounts. About a cup of Jello seems to satiate me.

This morning I added a Jello shot to my breakfast and felt much warmer afterwards.

It only happens if i take 20-30g of Glyine powder, lower doses like 5-10g of Glycine are fine (Gelatine contains 25% Glycine).

 

[Cirion]

It only happens if i take 20-30g of Glyine powder, lower doses like 5-10g of Glycine are fine (Gelatine contains 25% Glycine).

Ahhh, that changes things a little then. I don't ever use pure glycine, I use gelatin.

so 72g (not all at once mind you, I never do more than 36g in one sitting) would be 18g, 9g of glycine, respectively. So maybe my dosages aren't *too* crazy. Still, I'm probably bordering on the high end for sure.