Amino acids question

Pet Peeve

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So I bought some free amino acids and mixed together BCAA, glycine, lysine, phenylalanine, threonine and a bit of glutamine for ammonia detox. In an attempt to lower serotonin. I got some nervous exitatory reaction to this mix and I havent quite found out if its the phenylalanine or the glutamine causing this nervous reaction as its the weekend and I dont want to ruin it by failed experiments.

Anyway, yesterday I dropped the glutamine and phenylalanine from the mix and took only BCAA, glycine and lysine four times throughout the day, no other protein. It really helped to lower serotonin. However I got in a really bad mood, like wanting to kill someone bad mood, and I was kind of confused and disoriented, slightly dizzy. It was not nice but at best tolerable as long as I could be alone.

I woke up today still in a horrible mood. Took 20g gelatin and 30 mins later I feel completely fine. Patient, optimistic , positive Peat-mood.

My guess theres something missing from my amino mix, i.e. an acute deficency causing the symptoms. Could it be proline? I need to get to the bottom of this because I think finding out what it is could give me some info about my health state.

Any input appreciated.
 

Nighteyes

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I can relate to this.. I have to add Tyrosine to the BCAA and I feel fine :) and make sure to get protein from other sources throughout the day
 

PeatThemAll

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I'm surprised by the speed gelatin reaches your blood. Protein digestion typically takes a while to have it's full effect felt.
 
D

Derek

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Stop trying isolated amino acids, or mixes of them and just eat food. Ceylon cinnamon is better for lowering ammonia.
 
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Pet Peeve

Pet Peeve

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But I think there must be some amino acid my mix was missing that could be very beneficial to me to add on top of food. I will experiment with tyrosine and phenylalanine but they seem to increase adrenaline which is very counterproductive for me. Cinnamon is unfortunately too drying for me, and I suspect estrogenic?
 
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Derek

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Pet Peeve said:
post 111423 But I think there must be some amino acid my mix was missing that could be very beneficial to me to add on top of food. I will experiment with tyrosine and phenylalanine but they seem to increase adrenaline which is very counterproductive for me. Cinnamon is unfortunately too drying for me, and I suspect estrogenic?

It becomes very difficult to find balance with isolated chemicals. It takes a lot of tinkering and experimentation for not much benefit, IMO. You said you had bad reactions to the initial amino mix, and also bad reactions to tyrosine and phenyalanine. Are you dead set on taking amino acids? If you already tolerate gelatin well, why not try mixing gelatin with Micellar Casein. That will give you a very balanced protein mixture, that is also very easy to tolerate.

And if your sole purpose of amino supplementation is to lower ammonia, it may be better to just take some taurine with your protein meals.
 
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Pet Peeve

Pet Peeve

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No, I want to lower serotonin :cool: Plus it's fun to experiment, without this attitude I would have dismissed Ray Peat and I would still be stuck in stress hormone hell (like the rest of society).
 
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Derek

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Pet Peeve said:
post 111436 No, I want to lower serotonin :cool: Plus it's fun to experiment, without this attitude I would have dismissed Ray Peat and I would still be stuck in stress hormone hell (like the rest of society).

Casein as well as gelatin, either singly or in combination, will help to lower serotonin.
 
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Pet Peeve said:
post 111378... Anyway, yesterday I dropped the glutamine and phenylalanine from the mix and took only BCAA, glycine and lysine four times throughout the day, no other protein. It really helped to lower serotonin. However I got in a really bad mood, like wanting to kill someone bad mood, and I was kind of confused and disoriented, slightly dizzy. It was not nice but at best tolerable as long as I could be alone...

This sounds like low blood sugar. I had similar experiences when I was experimenting with custom amino acid mixtures. Anything over 3g of BCAA would cause a blood sugar crash (i.e. sweaty and cold palms, dizzyness, panic) without 10-50g of sucrose. You may be experiencing a mild blood sugar drop.

Try instead BCAA, tyrosine and phenylalanine with 50mg caffeine and 20-50g sucrose. Another combo is theanine with equal amounts of caffeine and 10-50g sucrose. Both of these stacks would drop brain serotonin without disrupting blood sugar levels. If your symptoms continue, then take the sugar first and wait 10-30 minutes before ingesting the caffeine and aminos.
 
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Derek

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cantstoppeating said:
post 111445
Pet Peeve said:
post 111378... Anyway, yesterday I dropped the glutamine and phenylalanine from the mix and took only BCAA, glycine and lysine four times throughout the day, no other protein. It really helped to lower serotonin. However I got in a really bad mood, like wanting to kill someone bad mood, and I was kind of confused and disoriented, slightly dizzy. It was not nice but at best tolerable as long as I could be alone...

This sounds like low blood sugar. I had similar experiences when I was experimenting with custom amino acid mixtures. Anything over 3g of BCAA would cause a blood sugar crash (i.e. sweaty and cold palms, dizzyness, panic) without 10-50g of sucrose. You may be experiencing a mild blood sugar drop.

Try instead BCAA, tyrosine and phenylalanine with 50mg caffeine and 20-50g sucrose. Another combo is theanine with equal amounts of caffeine and 10-50g sucrose. Both of these stacks would drop brain serotonin without disrupting blood sugar levels.

In addition to my suggestion above about gelatin and casein. I agree with cantstop that a theanine:caffeine combo might be worth a try. I would go for a 2:1 ratio of theanine:caffeine!
 
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Pet Peeve

Pet Peeve

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Hmm, yes could be low blood sugar, didn't know BCAAs could cause that. However I did drink half a liter of grape juice with each dose. Still that wouldnt protect me from a blood sugar crash from say 5000 mcg biotin. Ill try to lower my dose of aminos. Theanine is great Ive used it for a long time, I feel stoned if I take it though, particularly 400 mg suntheanine, so not something I can use all the time.
 

tomisonbottom

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cantstoppeating said:
Pet Peeve said:
post 111378... Anyway, yesterday I dropped the glutamine and phenylalanine from the mix and took only BCAA, glycine and lysine four times throughout the day, no other protein. It really helped to lower serotonin. However I got in a really bad mood, like wanting to kill someone bad mood, and I was kind of confused and disoriented, slightly dizzy. It was not nice but at best tolerable as long as I could be alone...

This sounds like low blood sugar. I had similar experiences when I was experimenting with custom amino acid mixtures. Anything over 3g of BCAA would cause a blood sugar crash (i.e. sweaty and cold palms, dizzyness, panic) without 10-50g of sucrose. You may be experiencing a mild blood sugar drop.

Try instead BCAA, tyrosine and phenylalanine with 50mg caffeine and 20-50g sucrose. Another combo is theanine with equal amounts of caffeine and 10-50g sucrose. Both of these stacks would drop brain serotonin without disrupting blood sugar levels. If your symptoms continue, then take the sugar first and wait 10-30 minutes before ingesting the caffeine and aminos.

So I believe I might be having the same issue when taking protein. From what I can see 50grams is about 3 tablespoons of sugar. That's a lot at once; not sure how I'd get it down. Do you take that in the form of juice or honey, or just sugar stirred into something?
 
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tomisonbottom said:
So I believe I might be having the same issue when taking protein. From what I can see 50grams is about 3 tablespoons of sugar. That's a lot at once; not sure how I'd get it down. Do you take that in the form of juice or honey, or just sugar stirred into something?

Sugar stirred into 250ml of water is fine.

If that's too much sugar, try taking a tablespoon at first with the protein. If you begin to notice symptoms of low blood sugar, usually noticeable within 15-45 minutes, immediately take another tablespoon of sugar.

This solution is a bandaid though, fixing the root cause which is often poor liver function because of hypothyroidism, will largely avoid this issue when eating protein. Look into taking half a grain or a grain of thyroid if you think it's worth experimenting with.
 

Makrosky

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Pet Peeve said:
No, I want to lower serotonin :cool: Plus it's fun to experiment, without this attitude I would have dismissed Ray Peat and I would still be stuck in stress hormone hell (like the rest of society).

:thumbup

Experimenting can be bad but it can also be a great "hobby" and give great satisfaction. It's on human nature.
 

tomisonbottom

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cantstoppeating said:
post 117618
tomisonbottom said:
So I believe I might be having the same issue when taking protein. From what I can see 50 grams is about 3 tablespoons of sugar. That's a lot at once; not sure how I'd get it down. Do you take that in the form of juice or honey, or just sugar stirred into something?

Sugar stirred into 250ml of water is fine.

If that's too much sugar, try taking a tablespoon at first with the protein. If you begin to notice symptoms of low blood sugar, usually noticeable within 15-45 minutes, immediately take another tablespoon of sugar.

This solution is a bandaid though, fixing the root cause which is often poor liver function because of hypothyroidism, will largely avoid this issue when eating protein. Look into taking half a grain or a grain of thyroid if you think it's worth experimenting with.

Great, thank you! I'll try some sugar in water. I am using cytomel, but I still get cold after protein sometimes. But I need to study my food habits a little closer. I would bet I'm probably not eating 100% "peat", so that could easily be it too.
 
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I drink juice after a protein meal.

Today i had some leftover steak, and a big glass of OJ with
small amount of baking soda to neutralize the acidity
gelatin
BCAA
taurine
biotin for the ammonia
thiamine
niacinamide

and a tablespoon of honey. It's all balanced now. Feels fine.
 

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