Overfeeding Palm Oil Causes More Liver And Visceral Fat Accumulation Than Sunflower Oil

[j.]

Save yourself first, then save the environment.

 

[Blossom]

My red Palm oil from the 'perfect health diet' days had this fatty acid profile per serving: saturated 6/ monounsaturated 6/ polyunsaturated 1.5. I really need to clean out my cupboards!

 

[Blossom]

I think that study was designed by 'medical science' to confuse and further promote PUFA/ the seed oil industry.

 

[7arthurv7]

[ moderator edit: threads merged ]

Weight gain? The kind of fat in your diet helps determine how much muscle mass you build up
If you gain weight, the kind of fat in your diet partly determines the amount of fat and the amount of muscle in your newfound kilograms. The unsaturated fatty acids in sunflower oil stimulate the growth of muscle; the saturated fatty acids in palm oil – found in many processed foods – lead to an increase the amount of fat. Researchers at the University of Uppsala in Sweden report on this in Diabetes.

Study
If you fatten lab animals, the type of fat you use makes a difference. If you use vegetable oil, which contains lots of unsaturated fatty acids, the animals build up relatively more muscle than if you use products that contain large amounts of saturated fatty acids. The Swedish researchers were curious to know whether these results would also apply to humans, so they performed an experiment with 39 healthy subjects aged between 20 and 38.

The researchers gave their subjects 3 muffins every day for 7 weeks on top of their ordinary food. The muffins provided a total of 750 kcal – of which half were derived from fat.

Half of the subjects were given muffins prepared with sunflower oil, a source of the polyunsaturated fatty acid linoleic acid. The other half were given muffins made with palm oil, a source of the saturated fatty acid palmitic acid.

Results
At the end of the 7 weeks, the subjects in both groups had gained just over 1.5 kg in weight. But those who had been given the unsaturated fatty acid [PUFA] had gained three times more muscle mass than the subjects in the other group [SFA]. The type of fatty acid also had an effect on where the fat layers were deposited. The subjects who had eaten the palm-oil muffins accumulated relatively more fat in the abdominal area than those who had eaten sunflower-oil muffins. Abdominal or visceral fat is less healthy than subcutaneous fat, and increases the chance of a number of diseases including type-2 diabetes and some forms of cancer.


Conclusion
"Despite comparable weight gain after 49 days, this double-blind trial showed that overeating energy from polyunsaturated fatty acids prevented deposition of l visceral and total fat compared with saturated fatty acids", the researchers write.

"Further, the inhibitory effect of polyunsaturated fatty acids on ectopic fat was accompanied by an augmented increase in lean tissue and less total body fat deposition compared with saturated fatty acids. Thus, the type of fat in the diet seems to be a novel and important determinant of liver fat accumulation, fat distribution, and body composition during moderate weight gain."

Source:
Diabetes. 2014 Jul;63(7):2356-68.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Palmitic seems like an unfortunate choice... http://www.pnas.org/content/100/6/3077.full.pdf

 

[haidut]

Weight gain? The kind of fat in your diet helps determine how much muscle mass you build up
If you gain weight, the kind of fat in your diet partly determines the amount of fat and the amount of muscle in your newfound kilograms. The unsaturated fatty acids in sunflower oil stimulate the growth of muscle; the saturated fatty acids in palm oil – found in many processed foods – lead to an increase the amount of fat. Researchers at the University of Uppsala in Sweden report on this in Diabetes.

Study
If you fatten lab animals, the type of fat you use makes a difference. If you use vegetable oil, which contains lots of unsaturated fatty acids, the animals build up relatively more muscle than if you use products that contain large amounts of saturated fatty acids. The Swedish researchers were curious to know whether these results would also apply to humans, so they performed an experiment with 39 healthy subjects aged between 20 and 38.

The researchers gave their subjects 3 muffins every day for 7 weeks on top of their ordinary food. The muffins provided a total of 750 kcal – of which half were derived from fat.

Half of the subjects were given muffins prepared with sunflower oil, a source of the polyunsaturated fatty acid linoleic acid. The other half were given muffins made with palm oil, a source of the saturated fatty acid palmitic acid.

Results
At the end of the 7 weeks, the subjects in both groups had gained just over 1.5 kg in weight. But those who had been given the unsaturated fatty acid [PUFA] had gained three times more muscle mass than the subjects in the other group [SFA]. The type of fatty acid also had an effect on where the fat layers were deposited. The subjects who had eaten the palm-oil muffins accumulated relatively more fat in the abdominal area than those who had eaten sunflower-oil muffins. Abdominal or visceral fat is less healthy than subcutaneous fat, and increases the chance of a number of diseases including type-2 diabetes and some forms of cancer.


Conclusion
"Despite comparable weight gain after 49 days, this double-blind trial showed that overeating energy from polyunsaturated fatty acids prevented deposition of l visceral and total fat compared with saturated fatty acids", the researchers write.

"Further, the inhibitory effect of polyunsaturated fatty acids on ectopic fat was accompanied by an augmented increase in lean tissue and less total body fat deposition compared with saturated fatty acids. Thus, the type of fat in the diet seems to be a novel and important determinant of liver fat accumulation, fat distribution, and body composition during moderate weight gain."

Source:
Diabetes. 2014 Jul;63(7):2356-68.

Technically, that's correct - PUFA do stimulate tissue growth, partly by stimulating estrogen production. Estrogen can be considered an anabolic hormone. Back in the 1970s, there was a lot of research with plants like Tribulus Terrestris, which contain the anabolic (and estrogenic) ecdysteroids. PUFA stimulate the cell to take up water and this has anabolic effect. However, this is not something to be desired on an ongoing basis. PUFA will also stimulate any growth in the organism, including cancer. Remember, the primordial function of every cell is to grow. The formation of an organism is driven by restraining that growth. Peat writes about substances that restrain growth and excitation caused by PUFA and mentions things like GABA, anti-histamines, anti-serotonin agents, etc.
So, just b/c something causes growth does not make it good. In general, the only muscle growth that is desirable (and only so in moderation) is muscle growth in response to resistance exercise and/or protein ingestion. On the other hand, the study shows that the saturated fats are stable - they do not cause growth but do get stored as fuel. Hence, Peat's recommendation to limit the amount of fat you consume if you want to lose weight. He is not pro-fat (saturated), he is pro-carb (especially fructose). He does say that some fat is necessary for proper absorption and you have to consume fat you better consume saturated fat to avoid the hormonal (estrogenic) effects of PUFA. Peat himself has said that he tries to limit fat consumption to no more than 10% of daily calories.

 

[halken]

So you're saying that Peat mostly consumes dairy and fruit?

 

[Waremu]

I agree, Haidut. Good points made about what Ray Peat thinks about fat. I know that Ray said that at one point he was consuming higher fat (saturated), but as he continued his research on fat in general, he lowered his fat intake dramatically. I think that one of the biggest mistakes people make when beginning to incorporate Peats ideas is that they eat too much fat in general, hence the weight gain that many people experience. While Peat does advocate saturated fat over unsaturated fat, this is in the context of a low fat diet (actually, a very low fat diet, as 10% would be defined as such). Peat has acknowledged in the past that in general choosing fats over carbs can have negative health effects, even if the fat is mostly saturated, as carbs are superior.

 

[haidut]

So you're saying that Peat mostly consumes dairy and fruit?

Yes, plus shellfish, and some meat. He has said several times that one of his favorite dinners is steak and Coke.

 

[you]

I agree, Haidut. Good points made about what Ray Peat thinks about fat. I know that Ray said that at one point he was consuming higher fat (saturated), but as he continued his research on fat in general, he lowered his fat intake dramatically. I think that one of the biggest mistakes people make when beginning to incorporate Peats ideas is that they eat too much fat in general, hence the weight gain that many people experience. While Peat does advocate saturated fat over unsaturated fat, this is in the context of a low fat diet (actually, a very low fat diet, as 10% would be defined as such). Peat has acknowledged in the past that in general choosing fats over carbs can have negative health effects, even if the fat is mostly saturated, as carbs are superior.

I don't think this is correct.

 

[narouz]

So you're saying that Peat mostly consumes dairy and fruit?

Yes, plus shellfish, and some meat. He has said several times that one of his favorite dinners is steak and Coke.

I do remember once when asked what he had had to eat that day,
he said "a rib steak and a coke."
But I couldn't say I've heard him say it's a habitual thing,
though you could be right, haidut.

Also I guess we need to know what meal "dinner" is.

Reason I'm being a bit picky here is
I think I might've done myself ill a while back
by regularly having for my evening meal
a steak, some coconut oil french fries, and a coke or tea.

Steak's got A LOT of phosphate.
Fries got a a lot of phosphate.
Coke has some phosphate....

Peat has recommended getting most of your protein in the morning and earlier afternoon.

I"m sorry, not trying to hijack the thread,
but I've been thinking about this angle.

 

[narouz]

I agree, Haidut. Good points made about what Ray Peat thinks about fat. I know that Ray said that at one point he was consuming higher fat (saturated), but as he continued his research on fat in general, he lowered his fat intake dramatically. I think that one of the biggest mistakes people make when beginning to incorporate Peats ideas is that they eat too much fat in general, hence the weight gain that many people experience. While Peat does advocate saturated fat over unsaturated fat, this is in the context of a low fat diet (actually, a very low fat diet, as 10% would be defined as such). Peat has acknowledged in the past that in general choosing fats over carbs can have negative health effects, even if the fat is mostly saturated, as carbs are superior.

In an interview
when asked about the relative proportions of protein/carbs/fat,
Peat said the ideal ratio is not known.
But he said "probably about equal parts of each."
But then in a later interview
he said he had been reducing his fat intake
and replacing it with more carbs (sugars)
primarily because of the almost unavoidable PUFA that will come with fats,
even good fats.
You get older, the PUFA tend to accrue and accumulate, etc.
That was mostly where he was coming from, about his rethinking fat consumption,
iirc--
PUFA.

 

[nikotrope]

I agree, Haidut. Good points made about what Ray Peat thinks about fat. I know that Ray said that at one point he was consuming higher fat (saturated), but as he continued his research on fat in general, he lowered his fat intake dramatically. I think that one of the biggest mistakes people make when beginning to incorporate Peats ideas is that they eat too much fat in general, hence the weight gain that many people experience. While Peat does advocate saturated fat over unsaturated fat, this is in the context of a low fat diet (actually, a very low fat diet, as 10% would be defined as such). Peat has acknowledged in the past that in general choosing fats over carbs can have negative health effects, even if the fat is mostly saturated, as carbs are superior.

In an interview
when asked about the relative proportions of protein/carbs/fat,
Peat said the ideal ratio is not known.
But he said "probably about equal parts of each."
But then in a later interview
he said he had been reducing his fat intake
and replacing it with more carbs (sugars)
primarily because of the almost unavoidable PUFA that will come with fats,
even good fats.
You get older, the PUFA tend to accrue and accumulate, etc.
That was mostly where he was coming from, about his rethinking fat consumption,
iirc--
PUFA.

I agree with narouz on this. Peat says to avoid fat to not gain weight only because he thinks it's easier to overeat fat, and when you are in a calorie restriction you want the most nutrient rich foods. His own fat restriction only comes from wanting to reduce PUFA as much as possible.

 

[haidut]

So you're saying that Peat mostly consumes dairy and fruit?

Yes, plus shellfish, and some meat. He has said several times that one of his favorite dinners is steak and Coke.

I do remember once when asked what he had had to eat that day,
he said "a rib steak and a coke."
But I couldn't say I've heard him say it's a habitual thing,
though you could be right, haidut.

Also I guess we need to know what meal "dinner" is.

Reason I'm being a bit picky here is
I think I might've done myself ill a while back
by regularly having for my evening meal
a steak, some coconut oil french fries, and a coke or tea.

Steak's got A LOT of phosphate.
Fries got a a lot of phosphate.
Coke has some phosphate....

Peat has recommended getting most of your protein in the morning and earlier afternoon.

I"m sorry, not trying to hijack the thread,
but I've been thinking about this angle.

Agreed. My memory is that he said this is one of his favorite dinners, not his regular one. He did mention in the same interview that meat has a lot of phosphate and he tries to eat it sparingly.

 

[halken]

^Doesn't he mean just muscle meat? I thought he ate more meat with collagen, no?

 

[Tom]

Wondering if it is the arachidonic acid produced from consuming enormous amounts of linoleic acid, that is responsible for the muscle growth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidoni ... supplement

If so, one can obtain the similar effect from just eating more eggs and organ meats but without the problematic oxidation resulting from the excessive linoleic acid (30 grams extra or something in the study). It may also be, if so, that EPA/DHA supplements will actually counteract the arachidonic acid and overall increase lipid peroxidation and make arachidonic acid more harmful:

"Under normal metabolic conditions, increased consumption of arachidonic acid will not cause inflammation unless lipid peroxidation products are mixed in. Arachidonic acid is metabolized to both proinflammatory and anti-inflammatory eicosanoids during and after the inflammatory response, respectively. Arachidonic acid is also metabolized to anti-inflammatory eicosanoids during and after physical activity to promote growth.[23] However, the evidence is mixed. Some studies giving between 840 mg and 2,000 mg per day to healthy individuals for up to 50 days have shown no increases in inflammation or related metabolic activities.[23][24][25][26] However, others show that increased arachidonic acid levels are actually associated with reduced pro-inflammatory IL-6 and IL-1 levels and increased anti-inflammatory tumor necrosis factor-beta.[27] This may result in a reduction in systemic inflammation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidoni ... flammation

 

[haidut]

Wondering if it is the arachidonic acid produced from consuming enormous amounts of linoleic acid, that is responsible for the muscle growth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidoni ... supplement

If so, one can obtain the similar effect from just eating more eggs and organ meats but without the problematic oxidation resulting from the excessive linoleic acid (30 grams extra or something in the study). It may also be, if so, that EPA/DHA supplements will actually counteract the arachidonic acid and overall increase lipid peroxidation and make arachidonic acid more harmful:

"Under normal metabolic conditions, increased consumption of arachidonic acid will not cause inflammation unless lipid peroxidation products are mixed in. Arachidonic acid is metabolized to both proinflammatory and anti-inflammatory eicosanoids during and after the inflammatory response, respectively. Arachidonic acid is also metabolized to anti-inflammatory eicosanoids during and after physical activity to promote growth.[23] However, the evidence is mixed. Some studies giving between 840 mg and 2,000 mg per day to healthy individuals for up to 50 days have shown no increases in inflammation or related metabolic activities.[23][24][25][26] However, others show that increased arachidonic acid levels are actually associated with reduced pro-inflammatory IL-6 and IL-1 levels and increased anti-inflammatory tumor necrosis factor-beta.[27] This may result in a reduction in systemic inflammation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidoni ... flammation

I think you nailed it. Arachidonic acid is actually sold as a bodybuilding supplement to enhance muscle growth. It is also the chief precursor to the prostaglandins and as such is one of main drivers of chronic inflammation and cancer.
Here are some studies to consider:
http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/21/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23076795

 

[chris]

Peat himself has said that he tries to limit fat consumption to no more than 10% of daily calories.

How much fat do you eat haidut? Weren't you eating mostly cheese sticks at one point? Surely that made you eat a lot of fat?

 

[haidut]

Peat himself has said that he tries to limit fat consumption to no more than 10% of daily calories.

How much fat do you eat haidut? Weren't you eating mostly cheese sticks at one point? Surely that made you eat a lot of fat?

I still eat those occasionally since they are very convenient and rack up the protein grams pretty quickly. When I was eating mostly cheese I was on 2 grains of thyroid so the extra fat did not affect me that much. Since I lost all of my excess weight and metabolism improved I don't really restrict fat religiously but I do try to eat mostly sugar and protein. I find Peat's suggestion of Coke and some type of lean protein pretty tasty and easy to get virtually anywhere. Breakfast is usually 3 organic eggs, lunch is meat or shellfish or cheese, and dinner is milk with sugar. Everything is of course irrigated with generous amounts of Coke or Pepsi (made with sugar).
Btw, I gather at this point I am quite PUFA depleted, confirmed by Mead acid tests and the fact that I get dermatitis the next day after I forget to take my 5mg vitamin B6. I managed to stop thyroid completely and do not feel metabolism slowdown (so far). Let's see how this continues, but so far so good.

 

[chris]

Peat himself has said that he tries to limit fat consumption to no more than 10% of daily calories.

How much fat do you eat haidut? Weren't you eating mostly cheese sticks at one point? Surely that made you eat a lot of fat?

I still eat those occasionally since they are very convenient and rack up the protein grams pretty quickly. When I was eating mostly cheese I was on 2 grains of thyroid so the extra fat did not affect me that much. Since I lost all of my excess weight and metabolism improved I don't really restrict fat religiously but I do try to eat mostly sugar and protein. I find Peat's suggestion of Coke and some type of lean protein pretty tasty and easy to get virtually anywhere. Breakfast is usually 3 organic eggs, lunch is meat or shellfish or cheese, and dinner is milk with sugar. Everything is of course irrigated with generous amounts of Coke or Pepsi (made with sugar).
Btw, I gather at this point I am quite PUFA depleted, confirmed by Mead acid tests and the fact that I get dermatitis the next day after I forget to take my 5mg vitamin B6. I managed to stop thyroid completely and do not feel metabolism slowdown (so far). Let's see how this continues, but so far so good.

Thanks for the reply. So coke is your only carb source, no fruit?