Saturated Fat Intake Caused More Fat Gain Than PUFA Intake In Study?

[Ryan999]

Overfeeding of Polyunsaturated Versus Saturated Fatty Acids Reduces Ectopic Fat

Just curious as to why this might be?

"The main finding of the new report is that the size and distribution of fat depots varied significantly according to the type of fat that was consumed. The PUFA group gained equal amounts of fat and lean tissue, but those eating the SFA diet gained four times as much fat as lean tissue. In particular, the SFA diet resulted in a significant increase in liver and visceral fat relative to the PUFA diet. Further, the increase in liver fat was positively correlated with increases in SFA as measured by plasma palmitic acid. In contrast, the PUFA diet increased lean tissue significantly more than the SFA diet. But the nature of this “lean tissue” is unclear. Because participants did not change their activity levels during the study, this lean tissue is probably not “active” muscle, although it might represent protein in other tissues."

 

[stokesman]

I'm curious too. I first learned of that study on the suppversity blog, where it was given a fair review though without attempting to explain the results. One thing I've seen suggested is the carotene content in the SFA group may have been much higher (due to use of palm oil) which may be a confounding factor. I don't know how significant that could be.

You may want to check out this thread:
Contradictory Information On PUFAs

 

[Brian]

Instead of trying to micro manage macros strictly I think the better and tastier option for most people is to do short glycogen depleting resistance training sessions 3-5 times per week.

This should allow most people to eat carbs and fats in the same meal in any ratio and still maintain excellent insulin sensitivity, while building muscle mass that will further help to metabolize carbs and fats at the same time. High insulin after a meal is very useful for building muscle faster.

But if you are unable to do regular resistance exercise then you probably do need to choose between fat or carbs.

 

[javacody]

Instead of trying to micro manage macros strictly I think the better and tastier option for most people is to do short glycogen depleting resistance training sessions 3-5 times per week.

This should allow most people to eat carbs and fats in the same meal in any ratio and still maintain excellent insulin sensitivity, while building muscle mass that will further help to metabolize carbs and fats at the same time. High insulin after a meal is very useful for building muscle faster.

But if you are unable to do regular resistance exercise then you probably do need to choose between fat or carbs.

Brian, could you give an example of such a routine? Include exercises, reps, sets, etc.

 

[Brian]

Brian, could you give an example of such a routine? Include exercises, reps, sets, etc.

The simplest routine that I prefer for muscle glycogen depletion is to choose one resistance exercise that uses many muscles at once and do 5-6 sets in a row with as much as 5 minutes of resting period. The long resting period allows muscle ATP to recover so you won't get fatigued easily on your next set, so you can keep doing additional intense sets and deplete more glycogen.

This is how I intuitively worked out as a teenager and what I've come back to in recent years with a few tweaks. Usually 3-5 days per week I just choose a single exercise that uses several large muscles at once and pump out 6 sets in a half hour. I'm not really going for anything but glycogen depletion. Mostly because that's what allows me to not be strict on what I eat and still feel great.

I also prefer bodyweight or weighted calisthenics for convenience. The main thing I focus on is a Time Under Tension of at least 60 seconds and doing reps to failure. Somewhere around my 3rd to 4th set I like to either train a harder resistance or do an explosive set at a lower resistance. If I reach failure quickly I'll drop down to an easier resistance and continue at least for a Time Under Tension of 60-90 seconds. When I was first starting out on bodyweight exercises one of my middle sets would also be a static hold on a resistance that I wasn't able to do one rep on yet, such as a handstand pushup, working up to 90 seconds.

I find working out this way consistently allows me to eat starch and fat in any combination whenever I feel like it and not get any of the negative blood sugar, endotoxin, or weight gain issues that I would get when I hadn't been exercising in a long time. I assume because my muscles suck up excess glucose well and probably increased DHT levels.

 

[javacody]

The simplest routine that I prefer for muscle glycogen depletion is to choose one resistance exercise that uses many muscles at once and do 5-6 sets in a row with as much as 5 minutes of resting period. The long resting period allows muscle ATP to recover so you won't get fatigued easily on your next set, so you can keep doing additional intense sets and deplete more glycogen.

This is how I intuitively worked out as a teenager and what I've come back to in recent years with a few tweaks. Usually 3-5 days per week I just choose a single exercise that uses several large muscles at once and pump out 6 sets in a half hour. I'm not really going for anything but glycogen depletion. Mostly because that's what allows me to not be strict on what I eat and still feel great.

I also prefer bodyweight or weighted calisthenics for convenience. The main thing I focus on is a Time Under Tension of at least 60 seconds and doing reps to failure. Somewhere around my 3rd to 4th set I like to either train a harder resistance or do an explosive set at a lower resistance. If I reach failure quickly I'll drop down to an easier resistance and continue at least for a Time Under Tension of 60-90 seconds. When I was first starting out on bodyweight exercises one of my middle sets would also be a static hold on a resistance that I wasn't able to do one rep on yet, such as a handstand pushup, working up to 90 seconds.

I find working out this way consistently allows me to eat starch and fat in any combination whenever I feel like it and not get any of the negative blood sugar, endotoxin, or weight gain issues that I would get when I hadn't been exercising in a long time. I assume because my muscles suck up excess glucose well and probably increased DHT levels.

Thank you Brian!

 

[natedawggh]

Overfeeding of Polyunsaturated Versus Saturated Fatty Acids Reduces Ectopic Fat

Just curious as to why this might be?

"The main finding of the new report is that the size and distribution of fat depots varied significantly according to the type of fat that was consumed. The PUFA group gained equal amounts of fat and lean tissue, but those eating the SFA diet gained four times as much fat as lean tissue. In particular, the SFA diet resulted in a significant increase in liver and visceral fat relative to the PUFA diet. Further, the increase in liver fat was positively correlated with increases in SFA as measured by plasma palmitic acid. In contrast, the PUFA diet increased lean tissue significantly more than the SFA diet. But the nature of this “lean tissue” is unclear. Because participants did not change their activity levels during the study, this lean tissue is probably not “active” muscle, although it might represent protein in other tissues."

Problems with this study:
Used "very lean" men and women. Overly lean individuals may be so due to high cortisol. Exposing someone with high cortisol to calorie dense foods will turn more of that food into fat than a person who is not overly lean.

SFA control used Palm Oil, which is extremely high in polyunsaturated fats. The researchers just assumed because of its high SFA balance it would represent high SFA, but there is so much PUFA in palm oil it would negate any benefits of the SFA

 

[yoshiesque]

I am confused, I thought in the long run, the PUFAs will reduce the metabolic rate, the way it does in bears during hibernation. Which means you will end up with MORE weight gain in PUFA case. This doesnt make much sense to me. Is there some key point im missing? I only understand this from a surface level perspective...

 

[schultz]

SFA control used Palm Oil, which is extremely high in polyunsaturated fats. The researchers just assumed because of its high SFA balance it would represent high SFA, but there is so much PUFA in palm oil it would negate any benefits of the SFA

I'm not sure what you mean by palm oil being extremely high in PUFA?

Cronometer lists palm oil as having an average of 9.3% PUFA, which is sort of high for someone trying to stay under 4g or so a day, but is less than olive (10.5%) and most other oils.

I would consider grape seed oil to be extremely high @ 69.9% PUFA.

 

[milk_lover]

Problems with this study:
Used "very lean" men and women. Overly lean individuals may be so due to high cortisol. Exposing someone with high cortisol to calorie dense foods will turn more of that food into fat than a person who is not overly lean.

SFA control used Palm Oil, which is extremely high in polyunsaturated fats. The researchers just assumed because of its high SFA balance it would represent high SFA, but there is so much PUFA in palm oil it would negate any benefits of the SFA

I'm not sure what you mean by palm oil being extremely high in PUFA?

Cronometer lists palm oil as having an average of 9.3% PUFA, which is sort of high for someone trying to stay under 4g or so a day, but is less than olive (10.5%) and most other oils.

I would consider grape seed oil to be extremely high @ 69.9% PUFA.

Emailed Peat about palm oil. Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

I hope that adds to the discussion.

 

[natedawggh]

I'm not sure what you mean by palm oil being extremely high in PUFA?

Cronometer lists palm oil as having an average of 9.3% PUFA, which is sort of high for someone trying to stay under 4g or so a day, but is less than olive (10.5%) and most other oils.

I would consider grape seed oil to be extremely high @ 69.9% PUFA.

I don't understand YOUR post. Are you defending palm oil? I didn't say anything about olive oil so why are you talking about it? Olive oil is not a saturated fat. The point is they didn't use a reliably heathy source of true saturated fat. Palm oil is shown in study after study to have different and undesirable effects upon cholesterol and lipid profiles than other sources of sat fat like dairy or coconut oil. I would not use Palm oil to improve my health and the fact that the study used it to supposedly demonstrate properties of saturated fat is ignorant at best and deceitful at worst.

 

[Spokey]

Food causes you to gain fat, plastic does not. Conclusion: Eat plastic.

 

[benaoao]

because the guys who eat more saturated fat without added proteins / methionine / choline WILL get fatty liver quicker than when eating PUFAs

Masterjohn talks about it in an article on choline and NAFLD