Overfeeding Palm Oil Causes More Liver And Visceral Fat Accumulation Than Sunflower Oil

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by Thomas, Feb 25, 2014.

  1. Dean

    Dean Member

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    Yeah, interesting...no fruit. I take it, Haidut, you also don't put much stock into calcium:phosphorus ratio? Meat daily and lots of coke or pepsi through the day with milk only once a day.
     
  2. Strongbad

    Strongbad Member

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    Now, does the "meat" include organ-based meat? Like neck bones, heart, liver (obviously), shank bones? I understand reducing chuck roast, ribs or t-bone steaks, but organ meats have so much nutrition it's pretty bad to abandon / reduce its intake.

    Also need to be careful in reducing the amount of meat intake. That's borderline vegan / vegetarian territory, and obviously they don't work out well
     
  3. tara

    tara Member

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    I too have come across in a recent interview (last year?), Peat saying he did not know what the optimal C:p:F ratios would be, that they may be approx equal, and that he suspects they may vary from person to person, depending on their state. And to take account of fat calories when trying to reduce body fat or slow fat gain.
     
  4. haidut

    haidut Member

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    I eat fruit whenever I can get my hands on a quality product but being busy means you end up drinking much more Coke than eating fruit.
     
  5. haidut

    haidut Member

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    My company sometimes stocks the fridge in the office with low fat cheese, so I try to eat that whenever there is some available. I certainly do not get up to the Peat recommendation of 2,000mg calcium daily but between the milk I drink at home and the cheese at eat at the office I probably get 600mg on a daily basis and on some weeks up to 1,000mg a day.
    Overall, I found that as metabolism improved I do not have to track what I eat that carefully. Kind of like back in childhood when what you ate was kind of in the back of your mind and the focus was on having fun and experiences. On days when my metabolism is at its best I can get consumed in a fun activity for hours and forget to eat for the whole day without getting even a hint of stress reaction. Then I eat like a beast in the evening and go to bed exhausted and ready to dream and digest:):
     
  6. jyb

    jyb Member

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    That said, I don't know many vegans that drink/eat that much dairy products. Instead, it's mostly about getting filled with vegetables, vegetables oils, legumes... So I don't blame low meat alone for any bad health from vegetarianism! But I do think meat is useful. Liver is nutritious. I'm just unclear about whether there's any requirement for any substantial amount if one is already drinking litters of milk.
     
  7. narouz

    narouz Member

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    This would make a nice chorus to a pop song. :)
     
  8. Tom

    Tom Member

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    Question is really if AA rich foods cause cancer and inflammation for a person on an otherwise low PUFA diet (or low levels of PUFA in his body), after all AA has been consumed throughout our evolution likely in higher quantities than today, it is probably even lower than a hundred years ago as we don´t eat much organ meats anymore (poultry is now the chief source of AA for most people). It is the major long chain fatty acid PUFA in land animals (while DHA is more prevalent in sea/water species). Personally I eat about 2 egg yolks per day, I need this much to prevent headaches and some other inflammation (body pain) that appears to result after a few days or a week with no egg intake. This is likely due to the lecithin/choline content, yet I get better result from the regular eggs than the DHA enriched eggs. Also liver, another high AA source, has been used traditionally as part of various cancer "treatments".

    As regards low fat versus high fat, I´m not sure I really get it, because (1) Peat say in one e-mail exchange that up to 50E% is okay if it is from high saturated fat foods, and (2) If one eat say 70% of energy as carbs, much more is going to turn into saturated fats, meaning palmitic acid first and then maybe over time to stearic acid, oleic acid, even mead acid. Is it really better to eat carbs that turns into palmitic acid than to eat palmitic acid and save the body this work? A higher fat intake will also mean more stable blood sugar and so one can go longer without having to eat and prevent some hormonal issues. If the diet is mostly fruits then blood sugar is going to be relatively stable, but it will still be more stable with more fat added in. If people get fat by eating fat it may have as much to do with lacking certain nutrients like those found in milk, but not so much in cheese (for example pantothenic acid and choline). There are advantages and disadvantages with low fat and high fat, the best is probably to keep it at around 1/3 of energy, as seems to be what Peat has suggested several times.
     
  9. tara

    tara Member

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    I thnk Peat has said what is best may vary from person to person. I don't think you can find a natural source of pure palmitic acid to eat - even the best sources always come along with a little PUFA.
     
  10. Tom

    Tom Member

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    Sure, but even fruits and orange juice have some PUFA, I think 2000 kcal orange juice would have around 1.8 grams of PUFA, compared to 4.1 grams in 2000 kcal coconut oil. And I think if someone wanted to reduce fat intake from 20E% to 10E% it would be almost no difference in PUFA intake unless most of the calories comes from sucrose. There are also issues perhaps with the fat soluble vitamins at too low fat intake, I´ve understood that not much beta-carotene turns into retinol unless there´s some fats in the meal (does that mean beta-carotene which is kind of "unsaturated" like PUFA accumulates in skin etc and cause as much harm?). I also have some concerns about skimmed milk given that a lot of these factors in the fatty (cream) part is designed to deal with the rest of the milk, such as the calcium via vitamin A, D, K and others. For me it is mostly about practicality, having more fat means less meals, means better sleep, better hormonal balance etc, it is also somewhat cheaper often, like fattier meat can be cheaper than lean meat.
     
  11. jyb

    jyb Member

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    Those are indication of good metabolism, so you're eating the right things. I eat similar.
     
  12. SQu

    SQu Member

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    A few days or a week or so without eggs makes me feel very nauseated and liverish. I've also assumed it is the choline I need.
     
  13. Tom

    Tom Member

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    I think betaine can at least partially conpensate for choline. So eating more beets can be a solution for those allergic to eggs: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18258634 Analysis of traditional dishes, one often find that fatty recepies would have things like vinegar (for example salad dressing), egg yolks (for example tradionally made ice cream, béarnaise sauce) and also beets are often used. Beets also has been used as a hangover receipe, and in weight loss.
     
  14. janus

    janus Member

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    I'd be surprised if betaine (trimethylglycine) did anything helpful which glycine doesn't.
     
  15. Tom

    Tom Member

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    Interesting, but at what dosage. Even 100 grams of meats has about 1500 mg glycine, and just 200 mg betaine could have a big effect that I will not get from eating meats. Or is it the balance of amino acids? I don´t use much gelatine, but have noticed in the past the good anti-inflammatory effect of chicken stock.
     
  16. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Methyl donor?
     
  17. janus

    janus Member

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    I tend to view methyl donors as undesirable (e.g. methionine). I think one of glycine's most important actions is to reduce the toxicity of methionine, which (speculative) may be achieving through methyl-sponging.
     
  18. narouz

    narouz Member

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    Hmmm...
    I like beets.
    I wonder how bad they are from a strict Peat p.o.v....?

    Do they have a lot of beta carotene?
     
  19. janus

    janus Member

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    I ate lots of them for a couple months. They should have little-to-no carotene. Not much starch, some decent nutrients.

    But the pigments are ~indoles, I think. And yeah, methyl donors.
     
  20. schultz

    schultz Member

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    Humans can make choline, but maybe you have one or two defective copies of the PEMT gene?

    http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/ ... te-to.html
     
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