Lean Mass Increased 3x As Much With PUFA Versus SFA

[bistecca]

This is basically what I was thinking when I read the study.

How do we differentiate between an actual increase in myofibrillar muscle hypertrophy versus sarcoplasmic hypertrophy versus a general increase in whole body water/edema?

The fatty liver is another thing. It is pretty clear (as far as I can tell) that the saturated group developed a fatty liver. The question is, is this a bad thing or a good thing in the context of this study? We know that saturated fat can be protective for the liver (against alcohol for example). I imagine there would be a fair bit of endotoxin finding its way into the liver on an overfeeding diet such as this, especially since the overfeeding involves roughly 750 calories worth of muffins.

It's also important to consider that other nutrients impact the ability to export fat from the liver. If the people on the SFA diet had adequate glycine, methionine, choline, vitamin A, etc then you might see different results. Plus, Palm oil is not exactly a low pufa oil.

 

[CLASH]

But both groups gained the same amount of weight. A weight inline with what was expected based on the surplus.

What if someone consumed that much saturated fat while being APOE 4/3?

What did they eat while losing weight? Milk, butter, and orange juice? How much fiber?

They both gained weight on overfeeding of muffins tho lol. I think the effects would be much different on a diet of yams with butter and meat or seafood cooked in tallow with juice + fruit. We also dont know what else they were eating.

I'm not too familiar with the genetic arguments around the different lipoproteins but from an understanding of some of the physiology of the different types of fats I wouldnt think that saturated fat would cause issues or even at the least I highly doubt PUFA would be beneficial. I dont see any mechanism for which non-oxidized cholesterol would cause disease. Even studies with people with familial hypercholesteremia, they dont really show an increased risk of disease. The idea that cholesterol causes disease or even that saturated fats cause disease has no basis in physiologic reality within the context of a normal diet (obviously an all butter diet or 80% butter diet isnt a good idea). The more important question is why is the cholesterol elevated. In most cases from what I've read in the research its either some type of infection, hypothyroidism or toxic exposure. The peroxidized products of PUFA in most of the research I have read, are indicated in almost every chronic disease. Also, I'm not saying everyone should eat a high saturated fat diet, just that the fat that is in the diet should be mostly saturated or at the very least not PUFA. My examples were to show that contrary to this questionable study, in my experience, people are eating diets high in saturated fats and not becoming obese or pot bellied lol.

Some of them ate dairy but most didnt tolerate it too well with the exception of butter so many of them where eating whole fruit, 100% fruit juice, meat including very lean turkey and chicken, various seafood, coconut oil, butter, chocolate, beef tallow, and carrots. There was some junk food in peoples diet including banana chips cooked in coconut oil, rice flour/ butter based cookies, ice cream, sorbet, potato chips fried in coconut oil.

Also on a side note, 2 of the authors in the study work for novo nordisk. I'm pretty sure the one who did the statistical analysis was the one who worked for the pharma company lol. I'm also pretty sure novo nordisk is big in the diabetes market, so it would make sense to put out garbage studies encouraging people to eat diets with greater than 50% PUFA so they can sell more insulin pens. And again besides all of this, where was all the obesity, pot bellies, diabetes etc when people where living on butter, properly fed pigs lard, tallow, palm oil, coconut oil etc.? Where is the obesity or even visceral fat in the masai? where is the obesity in kitava? tokelau? the plains native americans? kerala india? sri lanka pre industrilization? the philippines pre industrialization? the gaelics pre industrialization? France? All of these countries traditionally utilized high saturated fat based fat sources like dairy, coconut, ruminant meat.

 

[Highserotonin90]

Very interesting, are there any updates towards this "line of thinking"? @Hans

 

[Hans]

Very interesting, are there any updates towards this "line of thinking"? @Hans

Haven't dove into this research in a while and didn't properly analyze fish oil studies and hypertrophy yet. You'll have to look at diets, method of testing muscle mass, duration of the study, follow-up, etc.
As far as I've seen, the research has been inconclusive when it comes to fish oil and hypertrophy.

 

[Cloudhands]

peat doesnt think the proton leakage is good, he thinks it represents an unstable cell

 

[Hans]

peat doesnt think the proton leakage is good, he thinks it represents an unstable cell

When it's induced by PUFA yes, because PUFAs make the membrane leakier. But uncoupling, in general, is good and very healthy.

 

[Cloudhands]

When it's induced by PUFA yes, because PUFAs make the membrane leakier. But uncoupling, in general, is good and very healthy.

thats exactly what i was implying

 

[Hans]

thats exactly what i was implying

?