Orange Juice is a potent anti-thyroid

Mufasa

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One of the things I have noticed in the last couple of years is the following paradox.
Food that is potent anti-endotoxin is almost always also anti-thyroid.
And food that is pro-thyroid is often also increasing endotoxin.
Almost as if you have ying (anti-endotoxin) food and yang (pro-thyroid) food, which needs to be carefully balanced.

For example, the following study shows that orange juice, besides its exceptional anti-endotoxin effects, is also anti-thyroid:

1620023488219.png

Citrus sinensis is a rich source of isoflavonoids and phenolic acids. Much attention has been paid to the beneficial anti-oxidant effect of this natural phenolic acids.5,6 This has led to their proposed use as anti-carcinogens7 and cardioprotective agents,8 these and other reasons has prompted a dramatic increase in their consumption as dietary supplements.

The phytochemicals like isoflavones found in Citrus sinenesis has anti-peroxidative activity.9 Studies have shown that Citrus sinensis extract significantly decreases the level of serum thyroxine (T4) in rats.10 The anti-thyroidal role of Citrus sinensis might be mediated through the inhibition of thyroid peroxidase (TPO)11 the key enzyme in thyroid hormone biosynthesis, as it contains the phenolic compound naringin, which inhibits the activity of TPO.11,12,13 Due to its anti-peroxidative activity, Citrus sinensis extract has anti-thyroidal properties, which suggest its potential to ameliorate hyperthyroidism.14

Even more effective anti-thyroid than the official hyperthyroid drug carbimazole.
I wonder if this is a reason that Ray Peat and Danny Roddy both need to supplement with thyroid while drinking so much orange juice.

I have personally tried orange juice, but it always leaves me cold. I thought it was the amount of liquid, or the lack of salt, or whatever, but maybe it is just the orange juice itself?

Another study showing the same effect for flavanoids in orange juice:

Most flavonoids tested were potent inhibitors of TPO, with IC50 values ranging from 0.6 to 41 microM. Inhibition by the more potent compounds, fisetin, kaempferol, naringenin, and quercetin, which contain a resorcinol moiety, was consistent with mechanism-based inactivation of TPO as previously observed for resorcinol and derivatives. Other flavonoids inhibited TPO by different mechanisms, such as myricetin and naringin, showed noncompetitive inhibition of tyrosine iodination with respect to iodine ion and linear mixed-type inhibition with respect to hydrogen peroxide.
 

gaze

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Mufasa

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already been addressed:


you even commented on that thread?

You can see this as a more general discussion about balancing pro-thyroid and anti-endotoxin food.
 

Hans

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I wonder what you think of this @Hans ?
I don't think it's legit else we would have had a hypothyroid epidemic much sooner. OJ was all the rage quite a few decades ago before there was a hypothyroid epidemic. Most people report feeling better on OJ unless they just can't tolerate the liquid.
 

Nebula

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@Amarsh213 has a theory that citrate increases CO2 so much that it disrupts cellular respiration and it requires exhaling the excess through daily exercise to keep it from building up too high. He claims that high citrate consumption combined with exercise keeps metabolism optimal for him.

Commercial orange juice contains a lot more citric acid than fresh squeezed too from the peel being included. I’m not sure Amarsh’s theory is correct, but haidut has also mentioned high amounts of ingested citrate can disrupt metabolism. Is there some cofactor that is required for its processing?
 
Last edited:

OccamzRazer

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Could the beta carotene in oranges be problematic for some people?
According to Dr. Peat, no. (Read this somewhere in the email Q&A thread.)
 

OccamzRazer

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One of the things I have noticed in the last couple of years is the following paradox.
Food that is potent anti-endotoxin is almost always also anti-thyroid.
And food that is pro-thyroid is often also increasing endotoxin.
Almost as if you have ying (anti-endotoxin) food and yang (pro-thyroid) food, which needs to be carefully balanced.

For example, the following study shows that orange juice, besides its exceptional anti-endotoxin effects, is also anti-thyroid:

View attachment 23201

Citrus sinensis is a rich source of isoflavonoids and phenolic acids. Much attention has been paid to the beneficial anti-oxidant effect of this natural phenolic acids.5,6 This has led to their proposed use as anti-carcinogens7 and cardioprotective agents,8 these and other reasons has prompted a dramatic increase in their consumption as dietary supplements.

The phytochemicals like isoflavones found in Citrus sinenesis has anti-peroxidative activity.9 Studies have shown that Citrus sinensis extract significantly decreases the level of serum thyroxine (T4) in rats.10 The anti-thyroidal role of Citrus sinensis might be mediated through the inhibition of thyroid peroxidase (TPO)11 the key enzyme in thyroid hormone biosynthesis, as it contains the phenolic compound naringin, which inhibits the activity of TPO.11,12,13 Due to its anti-peroxidative activity, Citrus sinensis extract has anti-thyroidal properties, which suggest its potential to ameliorate hyperthyroidism.14

Even more effective anti-thyroid than the official hyperthyroid drug carbimazole.
I wonder if this is a reason that Ray Peat and Danny Roddy both need to supplement with thyroid while drinking so much orange juice.

I have personally tried orange juice, but it always leaves me cold. I thought it was the amount of liquid, or the lack of salt, or whatever, but maybe it is just the orange juice itself?

Another study showing the same effect for flavanoids in orange juice:

Most flavonoids tested were potent inhibitors of TPO, with IC50 values ranging from 0.6 to 41 microM. Inhibition by the more potent compounds, fisetin, kaempferol, naringenin, and quercetin, which contain a resorcinol moiety, was consistent with mechanism-based inactivation of TPO as previously observed for resorcinol and derivatives. Other flavonoids inhibited TPO by different mechanisms, such as myricetin and naringin, showed noncompetitive inhibition of tyrosine iodination with respect to iodine ion and linear mixed-type inhibition with respect to hydrogen peroxide.
I like your systematic thinking.

If OJ makes you cold, maybe try a concentrated source of orange's nutrients, like marmalade? Surely something like marmalade + ice cream + salt would be pro-thyroid.
 

Mufasa

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I like your systematic thinking.

If OJ makes you cold, maybe try a concentrated source of orange's nutrients, like marmalade? Surely something like marmalade + ice cream + salt would be pro-thyroid.

Actually marmelade makes me cold as well. I think icecream can really help boost temp as a dessert of a meal with little sugar.

Some of the meals that consistently raise my temps :

- white rice + beef/lamb + some veggies like pumpkin/squash
- hamburger + egg + mushrooms on sourdough bread
- just plain whole wheat sourdough bread with cheese
- pancakes with fruits/ jam/sugar/maple syrup
- skyr + cinnamon + fruits/jam/sugar
- apple pie

In general, I kind of love anything from the bakery that is: wheat + sugar + apple + cinnamon + eggs + baking powder lol.
Magical combination.

Anyway, I think if you go overboard with this high calorie “junk food”/ “yang food”, you will get endotoxin problems. So when experimenting with stuff that lowers endotoxin, “ying food”, I noticed that if I overdo it, it leaves me really really cold.

Like, did you know that lettuce is a powerful anti-endotoxin food? There is really nothing in it, but it will lower endotoxin. So I experimented with it, too much of it, and I have extremely cold hand, and cold feet.
Ginger, same experience, super cold.
Orange juice, marmelade, same.
Actually, for me this feeling feels similar as fasting, my head is quite “clear”, but it doesnt feel right, because Im cold, and feel frail.

Fibers such as, supplemental cellulose, whole wheat bread, are one of the anti-endotoxin foods that are least anti thyroid for me.

So, I’m not really against any of those “ying” anti endotoxin food. In the same sense, that Im not against starches while they increase endotoxin. (I really dont get how people can afford/manage eating 400-600g of carbs on fruits/milk only). I just try to balance it out. Eating some lettuce with my hamburger, adding some ginger to my rice + meat, eating whole wheat bread for the extra insoluble fiber etc. Gulping down on orange juice when I really got overboard.
 
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Beastmode

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How many people have access to good, quality oranges?

If it's not sweet, maybe it can create hypo symptoms, indirectly most likely.

I live in South Florida and I can't always find sweet ones here. I can't imagine in other parts of the country/world.
 

shine

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TPO needs inositol to work properly, which oranges are said to have a lot of. So the negative effects of one compound, for example naringin, are offset by another compound, inositol.
 

Nebula

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A hunch I have is that the stomach doesn’t always recognize fruit juice as food entering the stomach. It doesn’t always trigger the stimulus that there is something there to digest so it just sits there and irritates the intestine partially undigested.

A time when I felt fruit juice was digesting very well was when I was supplementing DHT. I’m not sure why, but I would feel my digestion working on it quickly and energy being produced from it.

Maybe the gut irritation from something cold and acidic stimulates serotonin and lowers metabolism, but if a hormone like DHT or cyproheptadine is high it prevents the serotonin rise. That might be why a lot of foods and supplements feel like they lower metabolism. They don’t absorb and irritate the gut. Just because you put the something down your throat doesn’t guarantee it will be digested and metabolized fully.
 
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lampofred

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I think you're right... PUFA is pure toxic poison bad for you in all ways, but among all other foods there does seem to be a balance between pro-thyroid vs anti-endotoxin. Eggs for example are pro-thyroid but also pro-endotoxin, whereas sugars are anti-endotoxin but also not that great for achieving high temps (relative to something like potatoes for example). The one exception is milk, it is the only food that is both anti-endotoxin and pro-thyroid.
 

equipoise

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How many people have access to good, quality oranges?

If it's not sweet, maybe it can create hypo symptoms, indirectly most likely.

I live in South Florida and I can't always find sweet ones here. I can't imagine in other parts of the country/world.
I guess I'm pretty lucky cause half a year I get sweet oranges, from November to late April/early May. loads of people find them too sweet even! They're as if you put some honey in them, ridiculous but I'm not complaining. they're done now so I'm switching to apricots, peaches, and then watermelons (best in the world!) and honeydew melons
 
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