MPB Experimental Treatments

[JDreamer]

@TubZy, the salt is to scratch the scalp to injury the skin , kind of like dermarolling. and it is also to help dissolve some calcium. I bought a bottle of lecithin liquid and the stuff would not come off my scalp. But the salt scrup helps it come off a little. ill have to buy that poly80.

Seriously ..... get Polysorbate 80 right away.

 

[LukeL]

Seriously ..... get Polysorbate 80 right away.

Did you post a link on where to buy?

 

[JDreamer]

Did you post a link on where to buy?

Ya.

I'll just post it again (this guy on Amazon better thank me jk) : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...etailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=rapefo-20

Speakin' of which I need to order another bottle.

 

[paymanz]

If you use salt on your scalp to dissolve calcium,of curse apart from it scraping effect.

Then what about something like sodium thiosulfate?

Not a suggestion,just speculating.

Of curse it interacts with many other things, but it also chelates calcium and is used to get ride of calcium deposits.

 

[noodle]

I always thought something like ACV would be better to dissolve calcium.

But why use sodium thiosulfate ? Salt is cheap + mainly to get some mechanical damage

 

[paymanz]

I always thought something like ACV would be better to dissolve calcium.

But why use sodium thiosulfate ? Salt is cheap + mainly to get some mechanical damage

Just to wash away calcium.

How salt(sodium chloride) does that you think?

 

[hominidnumber9]

What's the general consensus here on Caster oil? I was reading through this thread and I see that TubZy pointed out it increases PGE2 which is thought to be the mechanism of action. It's also quite high in unsaturated fat. But it seems to actually work. Would using castor oil while following Danny Roddy's diet approach interfere with what he's trying to accomplish? I'm not up-to-speed on the whole PGE2 thing.

 

[TubZy]

What's the general consensus here on Caster oil? I was reading through this thread and I see that TubZy pointed out it increases PGE2 which is thought to be the mechanism of action. It's also quite high in unsaturated fat. But it seems to actually work. Would using castor oil while following Danny Roddy's diet approach interfere with what he's trying to accomplish? I'm not up-to-speed on the whole PGE2 thing.

Yeah, it does actually work pretty well both orally and topically. I used it for a while, I started topical then switched to oral because of convenience. My digestion got screwed up over time from something non related to it via PFS so I stopped taking it, but taking it orally grows hair all over your body not just scalp so be prepared to shave more. I switched back to using it topically but for me it gets messy if I have to leave it in overnight since I put it basically on all my head. There are a few reports of mixing castor with a few drops of DMSO to speed up absorption and then you can rinse it out after a half hour.

The next thing I bought not specifically for hair but overall health was an $800 full body red light..

 

[TubZy]

@gbolduev

You have any theory and why things that increase PGE2 can regrow hair like castor oil for example? Is it a similar concept to dermaneedling or salt rubbing?

 

[hominidnumber9]

Yeah, it does actually work pretty well both orally and topically. I used it for a while, I started topical then switched to oral because of convenience. My digestion got screwed up over time from something non related to it via PFS so I stopped taking it, but taking it orally grows hair all over your body not just scalp so be prepared to shave more. I switched back to using it topically but for me it gets messy if I have to leave it in overnight since I put it basically on all my head. There are a few reports of mixing castor with a few drops of DMSO to speed up absorption and then you can rinse it out after a half hour.

The next thing I bought not specifically for hair but overall health was an $800 full body red light..

Hmm, interesting. Reading on Wikipedia it seems that elevated PDG2 is also associated with asthma, being 10 times higher in asthma sufferers. I also tend to be mildly asthmatic and more allergic to everything than most people. I'm not a very hairy guy in general. I can't grow a full beard and my body hair isn't very thick. I can almost count the number of dark hairs on my chest. I think I'll try taking it orally for awhile. My hair loss problem is primarily diffuse but I've recently been trending from a NW2 to a NW3. I've also been slamming myself with PUFAs since late last year. Trail mix for breakfast everyday, almond milk, peanut butter, vegan cheeses, too much iodine, basically doing everything wrong and it shows. So happy I came across this new theory.

Found some more information about the whole PDG2/PDE2 thing here: Increase Scalp PGE2 (and Decrease PGD2): The Cure for Hair Loss?
There are some experimental substances mentioned in this article that might also be worth trying out.

I've been rocking the $25 dollar Amazon red light lamp setup myself lol. It definitely does something. It's weird how certain areas of my body react to it but others don't. For example when I shine it on my back in the area where I have mild scoliosis the skin turns bright red and begins to itch. If I use it on my scalp the same things happens only milder. But if I shine it on my chest, or my abdominal area, nothing. It seems to be more reactive with the less healthy areas of my body.

 

[TubZy]

Hmm, interesting. Reading on Wikipedia it seems that elevated PDG2 is also associated with asthma, being 10 times higher in asthma sufferers. I also tend to be mildly asthmatic and more allergic to everything than most people. I'm not a very hairy guy in general. I can't grow a full beard and my body hair isn't very thick. I can almost count the number of dark hairs on my chest. I think I'll try taking it orally for awhile. My hair loss problem is primarily diffuse but I've recently been trending from a NW2 to a NW3. I've also been slamming myself with PUFAs since late last year. Trail mix for breakfast everyday, almond milk, peanut butter, vegan cheeses, too much iodine, basically doing everything wrong and it shows. So happy I came across this new theory.

Found some more information about the whole PDG2/PDE2 thing here: Increase Scalp PGE2 (and Decrease PGD2): The Cure for Hair Loss?
There are some experimental substances mentioned in this article that might also be worth trying out.

I've been rocking the $25 dollar Amazon red light lamp setup myself lol. It definitely does something. It's weird how certain areas of my body react to it but others don't. For example when I shine it on my back in the area where I have mild scoliosis the skin turns bright red and begins to itch. If I use it on my scalp the same things happens only milder. But if I shine it on my chest, or my abdominal area, nothing. It seems to be more reactive with the less healthy areas of my body.

Yeah, I tried some of those things mentioned (check original post of this thread) they do work to an extent. Castor oil and bim worked pretty well- never tried sulfa though I was always afraid of the immune suppression. They also grew my already long eyelashes even longer even when applying it to my scalp. Yeah, you should check out either setipiprant or OC000459 for elevated PGD2 levels, actually setipiprant was originally developed for asthma but is under trials now for MPB.

Topical ginger could be interesting, never tried that. I wonder how you can make a topical out of it, I'm sure that stuff would stain lol..would hate to leave it in overnight

 

[TubZy]

Actually even misoprostol is a potent PGE analogue as well even stronger than bim

Misoprostol - Wikipedia

 

[hominidnumber9]

I just took 1/4 teaspoon of castor oil a little bit ago and I feel a little off now. Maybe I just need to eat something.

I was juicing ginger root a lot in 2012 as an add in for green juice. That was a year where I had really good hair growth. It's also good to make a tea out of especially when you're sick.

I'll have to check out some of these other substances.

 

[Thoushant]

@hominidnumber9 Not to disscourage you, but the same period I was taking castor oil, my nipples started to itch. I was doing other stuff in the period, I gained weight, and I was taking a spoonful a day, so I'm not sure it's the castor, but watch out for any itching.

I've been wearing caps at the evening these days, the jump in attention from ladies is just ridiculous. Really makes you realize hair loss impact..
For now I'm washing with some offbrand ginger shampoo. I've been applying Miconazole Nitrate cream , about every 4 hours. for 2 weeks now. gives my hair a darker color.
So I'm creating a topical of vodka(or distelled water is better?) as per these studies I'm adding following. I have a 0.5mm dermaroller, so I'm planning just a light surface pinch before I apply.
low dose Caffeine(One I found comes with ECCG..)
Niacinamide
Biotin?
Adenosine 1 6
Melatonin 2 5
Methylvanillate 3
Taurine
low low low pct methylene blue
L-threonate?
Carnitine L tartetae ? 8
Ferrous ferric chloride ? 9
Capascin is SP antagonist ? 10
The thing I like about them, is most of them is kinda low concentration, barely 1%, so I think there could be room for more ingredients, if you have any you want to recommend.
some herb extract show promise, if I can find the specific molecule, as I don't want to deal with daily prep, or mixture going bad fast.
I'm in China, ordering from taobao, I lucked out on some ingredients searching for the CAS number.
I'm trying to follow gbolduev advice, So I'm washing with grained salt, I've ordered SF lecithin, and have to get a hair test soon, I think my copper is high.
Have to order Tocotrienols 7,

 

[hominidnumber9]

@hominidnumber9 Not to disscourage you, but the same period I was taking castor oil, my nipples started to itch. I was doing other stuff in the period, I gained weight, and I was taking a spoonful a day, so I'm not sure it's the castor, but watch out for any itching.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll be closely monitoring things. I'm only taking a quarter teaspoon before I go to bed and using it topically so we'll see. I have my hair really short right now so it's not that inconvenient to slather it on.

I know when I took Nettle Root, over time it made my nipples sore and caused me to urinate a lot. I think it did more harm than good for my situation. I've been off of that stuff for well over a year now.

 

[TubZy]

@hominidnumber9 Not to disscourage you, but the same period I was taking castor oil, my nipples started to itch. I was doing other stuff in the period, I gained weight, and I was taking a spoonful a day, so I'm not sure it's the castor, but watch out for any itching.

I've been wearing caps at the evening these days, the jump in attention from ladies is just ridiculous. Really makes you realize hair loss impact..
For now I'm washing with some offbrand ginger shampoo. I've been applying Miconazole Nitrate cream , about every 4 hours. for 2 weeks now. gives my hair a darker color.
So I'm creating a topical of vodka(or distelled water is better?) as per these studies I'm adding following. I have a 0.5mm dermaroller, so I'm planning just a light surface pinch before I apply.
low dose Caffeine(One I found comes with ECCG..)
Niacinamide
Biotin?
Adenosine 1 6
Melatonin 2 5
Methylvanillate 3
Taurine
low low low pct methylene blue
L-threonate?
Carnitine L tartetae ? 8
Ferrous ferric chloride ? 9
Capascin is SP antagonist ? 10
The thing I like about them, is most of them is kinda low concentration, barely 1%, so I think there could be room for more ingredients, if you have any you want to recommend.
some herb extract show promise, if I can find the specific molecule, as I don't want to deal with daily prep, or mixture going bad fast.
I'm in China, ordering from taobao, I lucked out on some ingredients searching for the CAS number.
I'm trying to follow gbolduev advice, So I'm washing with grained salt, I've ordered SF lecithin, and have to get a hair test soon, I think my copper is high.
Have to order Tocotrienols 7,

I think castor oil can cause some water retention. You notice anything from ginger shampoo?

 

[hominidnumber9]

Now that I've had some time to really digest this info I think I'm going to avoid castor oil. Danny Roddy briefly touches on PGE2 in his article about the roll of the liver in baldness. It looks like it stimulates aromatase, which can raise estrogen and start a negative feedback loop. It might somehow regrow hair, but so does Propecia for some people, right? I don't want to go barking up two trees at the same time, and I've barley given this new RP approach a chance.

Plus, as TubZy pointed out before, if PGE2 were the lynch pin in hair loss, aspirin should make your hair fall out, since it inhibits PGE2.


P.S. - Ugh there are some glaring typos in one of my previous posts. Wish I could edit it.

 

[TubZy]

Hmm okay, now that I've had some time to really digest this info I think I'm going to avoid castor oil. Danny Roddy briefly touches on PGE2 in his article about the roll of the liver in baldness. It looks like it stimulates aromatase, which can raise estrogen and start a negative feedback loop. It might somehow regrow hair, but so does Propecia for some people, right? I don't want to go barking up two trees at the same time, and I've barley given this new RP approach a chance.

Plus, as TubZy pointed out before, if PGE2 was the lynch pin in hair loss, aspirin should make your hair fall out, since it inhibits PGE2.


P.S. - Ugh there are some glaring typos in one of my previous posts. Wish I could edit it.

Yeah not sure if you saw my old posts in this thread but one of the reasons why I wasn't that big of a fan of castor was it seems to be inflammatory in the sense of stimulating PGE2 (PGE2 is inflammatory and associated with cancer). So the pro hair effect of castor can be related to an increase of inflammation, now whether how "unhealthy" that can be is unknown but the general mechanism behind it seems to show it is definitely inflammatory.

Dermaneedling also stimulates PGE2 in local tissue. Dermaneedling can stimulate repair as well in the sense it can generate inflammation and release growth factors in that area. So I'm not entirely sure what exactly is PGE2 role in hair growth for what we know it can be something else and PGE2 is just a "marker"..correlation vs causation.

For the record, I also applied DHT gel to my hair and nothing happened, no increase loss or anything.

 

[hominidnumber9]

Yeah not sure if you saw my old posts in this thread but one of the reasons why I wasn't that big of a fan of castor was it seems to be inflammatory in the sense of stimulating PGE2 (PGE2 is inflammatory and associated with cancer). So the pro hair effect of castor can be related to an increase of inflammation, now whether how "unhealthy" that can be is unknown but the general mechanism behind it seems to show it is definitely inflammatory.

Dermaneedling also stimulates PGE2 in local tissue. Dermaneedling can stimulate repair as well in the sense it can generate inflammation and release growth factors in that area. So I'm not entirely sure what exactly is PGE2 role in hair growth for what we know it can be something else and PGE2 is just a "marker"..correlation vs causation.

For the record, I also applied DHT gel to my hair and nothing happened, no increase loss or anything.

Interesting, yeah, I did skim through that post. I am already using the derma roller and that seems to be a nicely targeted method to stimulate new growth without any systemic side effects.

It's so strange and complex this hair loss problem. I'm going to focus on the health of my thyroid/metabolism for now.

 

[JDreamer]

I think I'm going to stop taking Tyrosine - at least for now. I've been dosing 2000mg's a day for the last 2-3 months, but I feel as though I've gotten increasingly more anxious and agitated.

Instead of trying to regulate serotonin/dopamine thru that regimen, I'm going to look into the possibility that I'm over-methylating.

Btw as I've noted in here before I was always getting painful acne on the back of my head. The Polysorbate 80 has basically cleared all that up so far. Very happy about that.