Its possible Ray approves the iodide for short term usage and as a treatment for certain diseases, but he also has in numerous instances highly discouraged it, and mentioned it has anti thyroid effects even as doses as low as 300mcg or more. He believes it damages the thyroid and there are many mainstream doctors who also believe it causes inflammation of the thyroid gland. Generally Peat doesn't like things that damage the thyroid, but in certain instances the benefits could outweigh the negatives. Ray said he gets an email from someone every few months who damaged their thyroid gland after using iodine. I would say other than PUFA and iron, iodine is the next nutrient that Ray strongly speaks out against. He also speaks out against other nutrients but that is mainly in their supplemental forms due to the imbalances they cause or the impurities in the supplements.
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Its possible Ray approves the iodide for short term usage and as a treatment for certain diseases, but he also has in numerous instances highly discouraged it, and mentioned it has anti thyroid effects even as doses as low as 300mcg or more. He believes it damages the thyroid and there are many mainstream doctors who also believe it causes inflammation of the thyroid gland. Generally Peat doesn't like things that damage the thyroid, but in certain instances the benefits could outweigh the negatives. Ray said he gets an email from someone every few months who damaged their thyroid gland after using iodine. I would say other than PUFA and iron, iodine is the next nutrient that Ray strongly speaks out against. He also speaks out against other nutrients but that is mainly in their supplemental forms due to the imbalances they cause or the impurities in the supplements.
Look buddy, the fact that "mainstream doctors" believe something to be true doesn't make it so. And please stop parroting what you think Ray Peat said, it's not helping you in the slightest. Bottom line, as written by Ray Peat himself in the article I quoted, and as supported by plenty of science (I have supplied you with 2 references already), iodide is a powerful anti-inflammatory tool which, when used wisely, can combat numerous conditions, and is one of the most suppressed and misunderstood substances of the half century. Believe what you want, I am done here, but please stop gratuitiously spreading misinformation.
How long have you been using it? Ray, and other people have mentioned Iodine can cause destruction of the thyroid gland, which initially makes you feel better, have an extreme energy boost etc because you initially actually go hyperthyroid from the excess stored thyroid hormone being released into the body. This is what occurred when I used it, I used 1mg, felt great, then used 3mg the same day and continued to feel great. Then, 6 weeks later, using just 3mg per week, I was 20 pounds heavier, hair had thinned, I had no energy at all, felt very cold, balls even shrunk. Danny also talked about using it and said he felt extremely cold when he used large doses of iodine.
I am just pointing out the mainstream doctors part to show that they actually agree with Ray on something which is interesting. You need to stop parroting harmful things people like Dr Brownstein said. That is absolutely false. I am not "parroting what I think Ray Peat said". You are flat out making false claims about iodine and ascribing them to Ray Peat.
Again, you can check out Danny Roddys video podcasts with Ray where they have discussed iodine numerous times. You can search Ray Peat Iodine in youtube, where you will get numerous videos with Rays own voice where he will talk about iodine. that is straight from the source information, you can hear Ray say it. Last but not least you can email Ray yourself at his gmail address, and he may send you an email with nearly 60+ articles he compiled in the 1900s talking about how bad iodine is. Additionally, you can get confirmation from Ray himself, where he advises ONLY using seafood/shell fish, milk and eggs for iodine and does not recommend supplementing it at all. Iodine is not an anti inflammatory at least not according to Ray nor mainstream medicine. It may have anti inflammatory effects in certain conditions but it always causes an inflammation of the thyroid gland especially with the huge doses. The article of Peats you quoted does not in any way show Peat advises supplementing iodine at all, let alone in the huge doses you are mentioning. There are hundreds of people online doing the iodine protocol, parroting what dr Brownstein said and nearly all of them are suffering serious health consequences but continuing to push onwards using iodine whilst claiming it is just a detox effect. If you think I am spreading misinformation that means you are saying Peat is wrong and mainstream medicine is wrong, and if you believe that to be the case you are free to search Ray Peat Iodine in youtube or just email Ray yourself. The bottom line also is, if youre megadosing any nutrient, even b and C vitamins, you will likely get negative effects. Humans simply werent built to isolate and consume megadoses of any nutrient which is why Ray generally recommends seafood, shrimp, liver, milk, eggs, thyroid gland etc. Also you can look at Alex Jones himself, he promotes huge iodine doses and the dude has every hypothyroid symptom present.
I am not sure why you are defending usage of hundreds of milligrams of iodine but here is a thread from just a quick google search for Ray Peat Iodine:
Ray Peat On Iodine
Ok, so many people is talking about iodine now. A user called visionsofstrenght over the old peatarian.com forum posted this, so I'm copying it here as well. Original thread (http://beesandbutterflies.org/52426/iod ... 426#q52426) Here are the Peat references on iodine: The Myth of Iodine...
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mariantos
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@Mr.Bollox
This text is copied from a message of mine posted in another topic. If I'm not mistaken, you were active there too, I only assume that you missed the message posted by me or saw that it is too long and you didn't want to get bored. ^^
" I have been using 5% Lugol's Iodine Solution for two weeks, I started with one drop, the equivalent of 6.25 mg's of iodine, on the second day I used three drops, and in the following days, six or seven drops. The next day, when I used three drops, I had severe stomach cramps and chills for about ten or fifteen minutes, during which time I also had two stools. I don't want to interpret the above as detox reactions, so I don't categorize them in any way. I mention that I had serious problems with constipation, ie one stool per week, two were a miracle, immediately after I started the experiment with iodine, I started to have stools daily, even twice a day, which never happened to me since I was healthy, that is, for three years, there have been so many since I have been confronted with what I strongly believe to be a fungal infection, which has suppressed the functions of my internal organs and more. In addition to the problem of constipation, eczema that appeared on my face after consuming any type of sugar, honey, etc. it's hesitated to appear as quickly and forcefully as it did before, I no longer have cold hands and feet, I was colder than ice almost all day before, only in the evening I had moments of little body heat, my fingers deflated slightly, not completely, erectile dysfunction seems to be less prevalent, clearer in thinking. "
Also my answer to your question is that I am in the third week of the experiment, which is pleasant for now, let's hope it ends successfully!
This text is copied from a message of mine posted in another topic. If I'm not mistaken, you were active there too, I only assume that you missed the message posted by me or saw that it is too long and you didn't want to get bored. ^^
" I have been using 5% Lugol's Iodine Solution for two weeks, I started with one drop, the equivalent of 6.25 mg's of iodine, on the second day I used three drops, and in the following days, six or seven drops. The next day, when I used three drops, I had severe stomach cramps and chills for about ten or fifteen minutes, during which time I also had two stools. I don't want to interpret the above as detox reactions, so I don't categorize them in any way. I mention that I had serious problems with constipation, ie one stool per week, two were a miracle, immediately after I started the experiment with iodine, I started to have stools daily, even twice a day, which never happened to me since I was healthy, that is, for three years, there have been so many since I have been confronted with what I strongly believe to be a fungal infection, which has suppressed the functions of my internal organs and more. In addition to the problem of constipation, eczema that appeared on my face after consuming any type of sugar, honey, etc. it's hesitated to appear as quickly and forcefully as it did before, I no longer have cold hands and feet, I was colder than ice almost all day before, only in the evening I had moments of little body heat, my fingers deflated slightly, not completely, erectile dysfunction seems to be less prevalent, clearer in thinking. "
Also my answer to your question is that I am in the third week of the experiment, which is pleasant for now, let's hope it ends successfully!
theres no doubt Iodine likely has anti fungal or anti bacterial effects, I think its used topically on wounds for that purpose as well, I remember it being poured on a wound as a kid. However anti bacterial doesnt mean beneficial overall and antibiotics have their own effects. Ray has spoken about iodine in particular numerous times, he seems to have done even more searching on it than any of us, when I emailed him about it once he sent his comments alongside like 60 references he said he compiled over the years. it could be a detox reaction, i have also heard it causes release of stored thyroid hormone, so initially you will get a benefit and even a hyperthyroid like effect (which can include feeling warmer, diarrhea type effect/no constipation).
You continue to confuse iodide and iodine. Please learn to differentiate. It is the same difference between chlorine, which is toxic, and chloride, which is essential for life. Ray has warned against excess iodine (I2), the form found in Lugol's, the molecular form. The article on his website which I quoted discusses iodide (I-), the reduced form. The form of iodine found in iodized salt, whatever remains of it once it reaches your plate, is mostly iodate, which, like iodine, is a strong oxidizing agent and can (rarely) damage the thyroid in susceptible people. Potassium iodide (KI) has been used in gram-sized amounts for centuries with very few side effects. Once toxic levels are reached (tens of grams daily for weeks), it is very likely the elevated potassium content that is to blame, not the iodide. It is known that Ray is ok with a gram of so of iodide short-term. He is probably against doing that for more than a few weeks. This is a far cry from stating off-hand, like you did, that "iodine causes hypothyroidism". This is just plain bollox.How long have you been using it? Ray, and other people have mentioned Iodine can cause destruction of the thyroid gland, which initially makes you feel better, have an extreme energy boost etc because you initially actually go hyperthyroid from the excess stored thyroid hormone being released into the body. This is what occurred when I used it, I used 1mg, felt great, then used 3mg the same day and continued to feel great. Then, 6 weeks later, using just 3mg per week, I was 20 pounds heavier, hair had thinned, I had no energy at all, felt very cold, balls even shrunk. Danny also talked about using it and said he felt extremely cold when he used large doses of iodine.
I am just pointing out the mainstream doctors part to show that they actually agree with Ray on something which is interesting. You need to stop parroting harmful things people like Dr Brownstein said. That is absolutely false. I am not "parroting what I think Ray Peat said". You are flat out making false claims about iodine and ascribing them to Ray Peat.
Again, you can check out Danny Roddys video podcasts with Ray where they have discussed iodine numerous times. You can search Ray Peat Iodine in youtube, where you will get numerous videos with Rays own voice where he will talk about iodine. that is straight from the source information, you can hear Ray say it. Last but not least you can email Ray yourself at his gmail address, and he may send you an email with nearly 60+ articles he compiled in the 1900s talking about how bad iodine is. Additionally, you can get confirmation from Ray himself, where he advises ONLY using seafood/shell fish, milk and eggs for iodine and does not recommend supplementing it at all. Iodine is not an anti inflammatory at least not according to Ray nor mainstream medicine. It may have anti inflammatory effects in certain conditions but it always causes an inflammation of the thyroid gland especially with the huge doses. The article of Peats you quoted does not in any way show Peat advises supplementing iodine at all, let alone in the huge doses you are mentioning. There are hundreds of people online doing the iodine protocol, parroting what dr Brownstein said and nearly all of them are suffering serious health consequences but continuing to push onwards using iodine whilst claiming it is just a detox effect. If you think I am spreading misinformation that means you are saying Peat is wrong and mainstream medicine is wrong, and if you believe that to be the case you are free to search Ray Peat Iodine in youtube or just email Ray yourself. The bottom line also is, if youre megadosing any nutrient, even b and C vitamins, you will likely get negative effects. Humans simply werent built to isolate and consume megadoses of any nutrient which is why Ray generally recommends seafood, shrimp, liver, milk, eggs, thyroid gland etc. Also you can look at Alex Jones himself, he promotes huge iodine doses and the dude has every hypothyroid symptom present.
I am not sure why you are defending usage of hundreds of milligrams of iodine but here is a thread from just a quick google search for Ray Peat Iodine:
So you can believe what you want, as we all can. Some people on here believe PUFA is good, iron is good, etc, we all have freedom of beliefs, however my point is you should not be claiming Ray agrees with your claims on iodine, and accuse people quoting Rays views of iodine as "spreading misinformation". I can absolutely assure you Ray does not agree with megadosing iodine. Maybe, in unique disease states he agrees with using iodine, but i'm doubting that since Ray generally never recommends anything that suppresses the thyroid. Again you can believe megadoses of Iodine are good, and even if it is true, even if hundreds of people are benefiting from Iodine megadosing, its still not right to claim that Peat approves of it.Ray Peat On Iodine
Ok, so many people is talking about iodine now. A user called visionsofstrenght over the old peatarian.com forum posted this, so I'm copying it here as well. Original thread (http://beesandbutterflies.org/52426/iod ... 426#q52426) Here are the Peat references on iodine: The Myth of Iodine...raypeatforum.com
Ray is referring to Potassium Iodide, he is not referring to Lugols iodine although it seems he uses them interchangeably. The form of iodine used in iodized salt is potassium iodide, this is the form used in the vast majority of iodine supplements as well. There are some exceptions like Terrys Tri Iodine which i believe is still mostly potassium iodide with a mix of other forms like sodium iodide. If you look at the nutrition label on most table salts, as well as most multivitamin labels it will list Potassium Iodide. I believe the Iodate form is the form used in breads sometimes as a dough conditioner.
Again, I can absolutely assure you that you or anyone can go ahead and email Ray on this, or ask the user "Haidut" or reach out to Danny Roddy, and they will confirm Ray absolutely does not like Iodine OR Iodide, OR Iodate. He does NOT believe in supplementing those nutrients at all let alone supplementing them in huge doses. I have never seen Ray ever recommend or approve of using a gram of Iodide but I know that he sometimes changes his opinion on certain things if people are already in the midst of a serious disease. Ray recommends getting Iodine and Iodide from foods like dairy, eggs, and shellfish. I don't think he approves of seaweeds either. I never stated Iodine in any amount causes hypothyroidism. A small amount is needed, you only need like 80mcg a day for the thyroid to function. Pouring more in there does not mean you'll create more thyroid hormone. There are numerous threads where it has been discussed. Ray is well aware of the nuance between iodate, iodide, and iodine and I am sure he is aware most supplements and iodized table salt contain potassium iodide. Ray told me that Georgi is misquoted and misinterpreted online with regards to iodine.
Do you have any references where Ray has said he is okay with a gram of iodide short term? Because he disapproves of iodized table salt as well as potassium iodide supplements!
here is another interview with Ray on the topic The Myth of Iodine Deficiency: An Interview with Dr. Ray Peat – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
You can note in several instances, Ray uses the term "iodine" even though hes referring to iodide. As I said you can still megadose Iodine, and even if it does create benefits you still shouldnt be claiming its something Peat approves of. for instance some people gain benefits from pufa and iron supplements but it doesnt mean Peat uses them or agrees with their usage
Potassium iodate, not iodide, is the form of iodine most widely used to fortify table salt world-wide. Peat's writings on iodide/iodine are somewhat confusing and there is no point in derailing this thread any further. The point is, you should not be throwing around factually incorrect statements like "iodine causes hypothyroidism" off-hand and expect to get away with them.
From Nutrition for Women (1993), page 50:
So, one minute he's saying iodides are good, then seems to conflate iodine with iodide, and finally seems to attribute the deleterious effects of excess iodine on the thyroid to PUFA. Which would be absolutely correct.
That is not correct, this is the mortons iodized table salt Morton Iodized Salt - 26oz.
Again, the term "fact" is irrelevant in this context. What the facts are or what the truth is irrelevant. Peat does believe Iodine, and Iodide, cause thyroid glandular damage and suppress the thyroid when supplemented in a dose dependent matter. You cannot claim Peat said something he didn't and expect that it should be taken at face value. Saying that Peat believes in iodine supplements is like saying he believes in iron and PUFA supplements. And in fact there are rare instances where hes said supplementing iron is okay, like in severe blood loss, or on a pure milk diet.
My own usage as well as the usage of hundreds of others supports the fact that Potassium Iodide supplements, do in fact suppress the thyroid when used long term in low doses or even short term in high dosages.
Does that mean its factual or truthful? Not necessarily, but we do know factually what Peats statements are on iodine and iodide. Dietary iodine is reduced to iodide regardless, so it is not the same as chlorine vs chloride other than the names being similar. Chloride and chlorine are opposites, fluoride/fluorine are both bad, and iodine/iodide are both essential in small amounts, harmful in higher (according to Peat and many other supplement users). Many natural foods contain both PUFA and iodine, and Peat has numerous writings and statements on both Iodine/Iodide and PUFA in separate instances. I am sure there was a podcast with Danny Roddy within the last year where Peat talked about not supplementing Iodine and strictly obtaining it from dairy, eggs and shellfish. This is not something that is subjective or debatable, like we are not debating whats true or false, whos right or wrong I am simply pointing out what Peat said on the subject. When Peat talked about avoiding iodized salt and iodine supplements it was simply obvious from the context he was referring to iodine and iodide. Iodine is just the general term even supplement manufacturers use and then they also include potassium iodide.
you can probably find numerous people who claim to receive benefit or possibly actually do receive benefit from all kinds of supplements including iron, PUFA, and iodine and even estrogen. theres numerous reviews on I believe linoleic acid and flax seed oil and fish oil supplements talking about how they cured acne, improved nail/skin/hair health and more. It still doesnt mean you can go off your personal experience or others personal experiences and use that to claim Ray now approves of the supplements. I also linked another thread where theres several quotes from Ray on the topic of iodine and iodide. But if you think we are all lying about Rays comments on iodine, and you need stronger direct evidence, you can just email him your specific question yourself.
You do know that Ray also has numerous statements talking about Iron and its benefits or necessity right? Yet hes also criticized supplements of that very strongly. He also has numerous instances of talking about the importance of zinc and copper, yet if you ask him about copper supplements he will strongly condemn them, and he will even say Zinc supplements shouldnt be used regularly or in high doses. And he has said iron can be supplemented with severe blood loss, and with a milk only diet you would eventually need to supplement iron.
Also you can look up life extension or any of the numerous multivitamin brands out there and basically all of the big famous ones will have Iodine listed as potassium iodide. The supplement labels themselves state Iodine then in parenthesis state Potassium Iodide. you generally would have to look for a special Iodine product like lugols or terrys tri iodine in order to get forms of iodine that arent potassium iodide. As for potassium iodide, Ive tried the stuff for several weeks in a row and doses were very low at just 2-3mg once a week, and I would absolutely not advise other people to use the stuff unless I was intentionally trying to harm them. I'd imagine that there may be unique instances where it could help, like if someone had a very iodine deficient diet their whole life, or had a severe selenium overload, or maybe if they are clean of fluoride/chlorine/bromine maybe there wouldnt be a 'detox reaction' as they call it. I think the massive iodization of the food supply could even be partly to blame for the obesity epidemic in the US. you have estrogen, pufa, added iron... but then there is something potentially even more pervasive which is iodized salt used in many restaurants. so even people who avoid pharma drugs, avoid pufa and fortified grain products, but eat out at restaurants, they may be getting too much iodine.
Ray is critical of PUFA, iron, and iodine, yet he also consumes foods that contain them. He has a half gallon milk a day, used to have a full gallon before. He skims some of the fat but with that much milk is still likely getting a gram or two of PUFA. Hes critical of iron yet consumes liver and eggs. Critical of PUFA but consumes eggs which contain pufa. but at the same time hes strongly advised against supplementing pufa, iron, iodine, choline, methionine, and even copper which he otherwise likes.
It appears depending on the country you're in, its up to the company to use iodate or iodide in the iodized salt. if youre in the US, the mortons salt is one of the more popular ones and uses potassium iodide.
For what its worth I see these salt iodization programs as something similar to the water fluoridation and food fortification with iron/b vitamins/milk. they are things that apparently or supposedly started off with a good intent, an intent to maybe combat (at the time) a widespread deficiency in a nutrient, but as time passes on it seems more and more that these nutrients were added to actually reduce health or dumb down the population. whether its vitamin A/D fortification in milk, iron fortification in bread products, water fluoridation and this salt iodization, all of those things may have benefits for some very deficient people, but they also have harms for many. besides fluoride these are all essential nutrients yet still are better obtained from diet. the vitamins A/D have filler ingredients you wouldnt find in dietary sources, and iron/iodine supplements arent as safe as food sources.
Ras
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Ray Peat is fallible, and he is wrong about iodine.
interesting, how long have you been free of fluoride/chlorine/bromine and were you using any additional supplements/specific diet alongside it. what do you think would lead to the variety of effects where some can apparently improve while others have issues
S-VV
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Is ingested sski good for bacterial infections? I know its exceptionally good for fungal infections, but cant find any studies except one (for staph) using sski for bacteria
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If you want to dissolve cholesterol and fat deposits that cause swelling and reduce blood flow,
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This may be the missing piece for many who failed to dissolve calcium deposits.
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