MPB Experimental Treatments

[TubZy]

I don't know if it's a bad or a good thing but nothing seems to effect my stomach apart from pharma drugs.

TubZy do you have an opinion on asprin, seen reports of it stopping hair loss but also that it could stop further regrowth?

Yes, I think it helps more for preventing loss and scalp inflammation than regrowth though most likely due to the inhibition of prostaglandins.

 

[lepetitcheval]

Am I to assume, after perusing this thread, that everyone here has done the basic thing that Peat recommends: Correcting their thyroid function on the whole organism level? A bulk of the hypotheses here are predicated on the mechanistic / reductionist view of the organism (stimulating various enzymes at the follicular level, etc.) Has anyone maintained a high or normal body temperature for a year or two and observed the effect on their hairline (or hair density for that matter)?

To maintain fidelity to the thread: Has anyone tried anything more radically systemic? Something on the order of moving to another country and learning their language or becoming a carpenter or something like that? Or are we all living deadened lives madly molesting our scalps to salve the egos that tell us that a fuller head of hair will somehow manifest into being a better version of ourselves free from insecurity and powerlessness.

I'm guessing that hair density has a whole lot more to do with the content and mental caliber of your life's intercourse than any of us wish to admit.

 

[LukeL]

Am I to assume, after perusing this thread, that everyone here has done the basic thing that Peat recommends: Correcting their thyroid function on the whole organism level? A bulk of the hypotheses here are predicated on the mechanistic / reductionist view of the organism (stimulating various enzymes at the follicular level, etc.) Has anyone maintained a high or normal body temperature for a year or two and observed the effect on their hairline (or hair density for that matter)?

To maintain fidelity to the thread: Has anyone tried anything more radically systemic? Something on the order of moving to another country and learning their language or becoming a carpenter or something like that? Or are we all living deadened lives madly molesting our scalps to salve the egos that tell us that a fuller head of hair will somehow manifest into being a better version of ourselves free from insecurity and powerlessness.

I'm guessing that hair density has a whole lot more to do with the content and mental caliber of your life's intercourse than any of us wish to admit.

I've been pondering this as well. Not sure how to change ones "mental caliber" - I have played with the idea of moving to a less stressful area, surrounded by nature but I can't help but think my 'problems' will follow. Really interesting topic :)

 

[thepecantree]

Great thread here, lots of interesting ideas. I have browsed the hair loss forums casually for a long time but have always felt turned off by the dogma (it's only DHT, Fin is the only thing that works) and general bad attitude and self-pitying.

One avenue I wanted to explore is circadian rhythm. PGD2 is a sleep-promoting agent so it is logical that it would be elevated under conditions of sleep deprivation, both acute (when staying up late) and chronic (sleep debt). I have had trouble sticking to a sleeping schedule my entire life. Some guys I respect in the natural health field like Paul Jaminet (perfect health diet) and Joseph Cohen (selfhacked) have been focusing a lot on circadian rhythm and its impact on health. Generally, most people have the hardest time fixing it, due to the challenges of modern life. I myself, follow a 100% perfect paleo diet and consider myself to be highly disciplined, but have never been able to follow a consistent sleep schedule. However, knowing that it is good for my hair would be something that could sufficiently motivate me. Beyond PGD2, it just makes sense that a consistent sleeping schedule would have a significant impact on other areas that impact hair, including cortisol and blood flow.

Speaking of blood flow, that has been an another area of focus. I definitely have poor blood flow all over my body, and when I do a scalp massage, it is a very pleasurable sensation that feels like my brain is getting the blood it has been missing. I have been doing it consistently for about 6 months now, hard to say if it has been having an impact. I got off Inositol during that time which was definitely helping my hair (Inositol increases SHBG which binds with sex hormones including DHT, also has a pronounced anti-anxiety effect, but I found that it made me feel weaker and less motivated, because my free T was lower). I will keep doing the massage, as there is no downside, it makes sense intellectually, and I quite enjoy the feeling.

Someone mentioned posture, which I do feel has to be an important factor. Modern life in front of screens leads to people pulling their heads forward, which is a stance that decreases blood flow to the head. I am working to fix this.

Anyways, I am going to embark on a 100% disciplined sleep regimen over the next few months and report back on the impact. I will try to reduce other variables for the most part and avoid adding other new things (although I feel intrigued by Selsun Blue, the fungus avenue also feels promising and seems very logical to me as I believe that inflammatory/autoimmune conditions are caused by an interaction between the body and microorganisms).

One more thing. I used to work in a really stressful job, and left that behind last year to pursue personal interests and start a business (I still live in a big city so that hasn't changed). I feel much healthier overall, and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. It's hard to say whether it has made an impact on my hair. During the period where other things were constant, it did feel like gradual rate of losses had slowed down. However, since then, I dropped Inositol and started lifting weights consistently, and my losses have accelerated since then.

 

[TubZy]

Hi, so I just finished my 1 week trial of topical B6 and zinc suflate and I must say I'm pretty impressed. The theory is that both of them applied together can inhibit 5AR and that is why they work, but I don't buy that. So I looked into it more and right in front of my face, which I should have known off the top of my head is that both B6 and zinc lower prolactin significantly hence raising dopamine (which we already know pro dopamine substances are good for hair and hair color). So I think both of these substances work by lowering prolactin on the scalp. Also, I even started the topical B6 a few days prior to the zinc and I noticed a reduction in sebum and my hair seemed darker/healthier so again there is no 5AR reduction there when they are used individually (quite the opposite as both can INCREASE 5AR).

During this trial, I was using nothing else for hair purposes (I'm even on thyroid hormone, which sometimes can increase my shedding, but I didn't notice anything). I would suggest playing around with the dose to see what fits you right but I'm doing the following:

• Vitamin B6 100mg tablet and zinc sulfate capsule (220mg) dumped into around 8-10ML of warm water. Stir up with spoon and dissolve it. Then apply to scalp with dropper about an hour before bed and rinse out in morning. I sometimes don't even use the the full 8ML when my hair is short, so I don't think you need that strong of a concentration. That is it- very simple. Feel free to add it to your existing solutions if you want, I personally did it alone b/c I wanted to see if it actually works and it does surprisingly.

Also another member on here said he regrew hair with bromo (dopamine agonist) which would be in line with the B6/zinc prolactin theory.

What Have Been Proven Work For Hair Regrowth By Member Here?

 

[Progesterone]

Great thread here, lots of interesting ideas. I have browsed the hair loss forums casually for a long time but have always felt turned off by the dogma (it's only DHT, Fin is the only thing that works) and general bad attitude and self-pitying.

One avenue I wanted to explore is circadian rhythm. PGD2 is a sleep-promoting agent so it is logical that it would be elevated under conditions of sleep deprivation, both acute (when staying up late) and chronic (sleep debt). I have had trouble sticking to a sleeping schedule my entire life. Some guys I respect in the natural health field like Paul Jaminet (perfect health diet) and Joseph Cohen (selfhacked) have been focusing a lot on circadian rhythm and its impact on health. Generally, most people have the hardest time fixing it, due to the challenges of modern life. I myself, follow a 100% perfect paleo diet and consider myself to be highly disciplined, but have never been able to follow a consistent sleep schedule. However, knowing that it is good for my hair would be something that could sufficiently motivate me. Beyond PGD2, it just makes sense that a consistent sleeping schedule would have a significant impact on other areas that impact hair, including cortisol and blood flow.

Speaking of blood flow, that has been an another area of focus. I definitely have poor blood flow all over my body, and when I do a scalp massage, it is a very pleasurable sensation that feels like my brain is getting the blood it has been missing. I have been doing it consistently for about 6 months now, hard to say if it has been having an impact. I got off Inositol during that time which was definitely helping my hair (Inositol increases SHBG which binds with sex hormones including DHT, also has a pronounced anti-anxiety effect, but I found that it made me feel weaker and less motivated, because my free T was lower). I will keep doing the massage, as there is no downside, it makes sense intellectually, and I quite enjoy the feeling.

Someone mentioned posture, which I do feel has to be an important factor. Modern life in front of screens leads to people pulling their heads forward, which is a stance that decreases blood flow to the head. I am working to fix this.

Anyways, I am going to embark on a 100% disciplined sleep regimen over the next few months and report back on the impact. I will try to reduce other variables for the most part and avoid adding other new things (although I feel intrigued by Selsun Blue, the fungus avenue also feels promising and seems very logical to me as I believe that inflammatory/autoimmune conditions are caused by an interaction between the body and microorganisms).

One more thing. I used to work in a really stressful job, and left that behind last year to pursue personal interests and start a business (I still live in a big city so that hasn't changed). I feel much healthier overall, and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made. It's hard to say whether it has made an impact on my hair. During the period where other things were constant, it did feel like gradual rate of losses had slowed down. However, since then, I dropped Inositol and started lifting weights consistently, and my losses have accelerated since then.

Welcome!

How many grams of Inositol do you use, and what frequency? I also take it. I do 6g a day, once a day.

Have you ever tried or thought to use progesterone? Dr. Hasson FUT - 3,898 grafts on 16/05/16 - Page 3 - Forum By and for Hair Loss Patients this guy has been on 100mg oral progesterone since 2014, thickened his hair and stopped his hair loss with that alone.

I've been on 100mg oral progesterone for around 2-3 months. Too early to say if it's helping... I think I am shedding currently due to TyroMix although I can't be sure. Only using 1 drop a day.

VERY interesting info on sleep/pgd2,etc... I swear I get the worst sleep ever, though it's my own fault. Constantly getting 3-4 hrs a night during work week, and it's stressful work. Propped up with caffeine and my morning workout.

BTW are you back on Inositol now?

 

[Thoushant]

@thepecantree

Welcome. About the sleep: topical mealtonin has shown benefit in human trail, I like to think it's related.
Then there are random studies on sheep: light/dark cycle affects the type of fur they grow. It's probably a reach, but a hat to cut light in evening to maintain a rhytm might be simple and additive to everything else.
I had mature hair line by 19 y.o, but my diffused thining started picking up, when me sleep schedule severely got cut to 4-5 hours(but again, this was due to gut issues), I was miserable and my hair followed.
Now I have a 22 y.o friend, dad not balding. He started drinking coffee and claims it's the reason for his starting hair loss. He wants to achieve a lot in a small time frame, so his sleep is 4-5h and a afternoon nap, coupled with increased drinking over his usual. I would bet his hair loss is due to that.

 

[nextjohns]

Hi, so I just finished my 1 week trial of topical B6 and zinc suflate and I must say I'm pretty impressed. The theory is that both of them applied together can inhibit 5AR and that is why they work, but I don't buy that. So I looked into it more and right in front of my face, which I should have known off the top of my head is that both B6 and zinc lower prolactin significantly hence raising dopamine (which we already know pro dopamine substances are good for hair and hair color). So I think both of these substances work by lowering prolactin on the scalp. Also, I even started the topical B6 a few days prior to the zinc and I noticed a reduction in sebum and my hair seemed darker/healthier so again there is no 5AR reduction there when they are used individually (quite the opposite as both can INCREASE 5AR).

During this trial, I was using nothing else for hair purposes (I'm even on thyroid hormone, which sometimes can increase my shedding, but I didn't notice anything). I would suggest playing around with the dose to see what fits you right but I'm doing the following:

• Vitamin B6 100mg tablet and zinc sulfate capsule (220mg) dumped into around 8-10ML of warm water. Stir up with spoon and dissolve it. Then apply to scalp with dropper about an hour before bed and rinse out in morning. I sometimes don't even use the the full 8ML when my hair is short, so I don't think you need that strong of a concentration. That is it- very simple. Feel free to add it to your existing solutions if you want, I personally did it alone b/c I wanted to see if it actually works and it does surprisingly.

Also another member on here said he regrew hair with bromo (dopamine agonist) which would be in line with the B6/zinc prolactin theory.

What Have Been Proven Work For Hair Regrowth By Member Here?

Interesting.. Masturbation increases prolactin, and by many accounts exacerbates hair loss.

Also P-5-P inhibits prolactin too.

Tubzy did Seti orally give you dry skin?

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Eating low-fat (by lowering estrogen) and taking thyroid hormones (probably by increasing androgens) absolutely murdered my hair in less than a week. My entire right temple shed so badly it's like there's barely anything there anymore. I've never had such a hard shed in such a short time in my life.

It's a shame, because I actually feel quite a bit better this week. But, that is nothing new, because based on my observations, keeping hair and being healthy are two diametrically opposed things for MPB sufferers.

Estrogen, which is fantastic for hair, is absolutely detrimental to everything else in the male body, and androgens, which are what makes us male, confident, strong, and give us libido, will annihilate your hair.

I know some of you will take issue with these claims, but I've been fighting MPB for over 3 years, I've seen my fair share of what works and what doesn't, and when someone claims they have regrowth but they don't post pictures, I simply stop listening.

The only things that work which are anti-androgens like Finasteride and RU, will damage your health in numerous ways, I'm not going to state those things are good, I've felt all the detrimental effects.
It's just a damn shame it has to be such a toss-up between feeling like a healthy man and looking like one as well.

Perhaps when Setipiprant becomes affordable, or Fevipiprant, will offer us some sort of side-effect free way to keep our hair while not being too damaging on the ol' health.

 

[nextjohns]

I'm beginning to think that Mpb might be a huge symptom of inflammation built up in the body. That is, the body is vulnerable to inflammation and anything that aggravates it worsens the Mpb in turn. Prolactin, high sugar diet, DHT, pgd2, high esteogen, fungi, junk food, irregular thyroid all seem to affect Hair loss.

I don't know why our bodies are more susceptible to this inflammation, or why it started in the first place, but I believe this is what's happened. I know when I first started losing my hair, it was accompanied with sebboreah dermatitis and a dreadful itch.

The question is, is the inflammation natural and can it be cured?

I'll say this. I think that it is natural. I think it is the body's response to the ageing process. Granted, it fluctuates depending on how vulnerable it is in the first place and how we treat our bodies. (Ie - poor diet, taking steroids, heavy masturbation etc.)

We know we can already treat this condition, albeit being difficult. But there is no cure.. yet. For that we would need to alter or eradicate the gene that is predisposing us to this suspectability to inflammation. Sadly, I believe we're still a long way off.

 

[TubZy]

Interesting.. Masturbation increases prolactin, and by many accounts exacerbates hair loss.

Also P-5-P inhibits prolactin too.

Tubzy did Seti orally give you dry skin?

Yeah, but in the mainstream world, people say it is from the rise in DHT that is causing it not prolactin, which is absolutely wrong IMO.

P5P could probably work fine too, regular B6 seemed to work well and it is cheap.

Yeah, it did, I didn't like it as it reduced sebum all over the body including the scalp and it also messed with my sleep, actually anything that blocks PGD2 always messed with my sleep.

 

[tfcjesse]

@TubZy

Excited to try the B6/Zinc sulfate combo. I have been using topical taurine/caffeine/niacinamide before bed for about a week and definitely noticed a decrease in shedding. Hopefully it remains that way. Unsure whether to add aspirin to the mix as I've heard it may prevent regrowth.

Question to you is, are you still using the topical taurine, and if so, would it be optimal to use the b6/zinc mix at one time during the day, and the Taurine mix at another?

 

[TubZy]

@TubZy

Excited to try the B6/Zinc sulfate combo. I have been using topical taurine/caffeine/niacinamide before bed for about a week and definitely noticed a decrease in shedding. Hopefully it remains that way. Unsure whether to add aspirin to the mix as I've heard it may prevent regrowth.

Question to you is, are you still using the topical taurine, and if so, would it be optimal to use the b6/zinc mix at one time during the day, and the Taurine mix at another?

This past week, I haven't used it (or any other hair stuff besides B6/zinc for that matter), but I'm going to add my normal stuff back in now since the trial was over. I would just mix them all into one solution, they are all water soluble and that way it is less hassle as well. That is what I plan to do anyways.

 

[Progesterone]

@thepecantree

Welcome. About the sleep: topical mealtonin has shown benefit in human trail, I like to think it's related.
Then there are random studies on sheep: light/dark cycle affects the type of fur they grow. It's probably a reach, but a hat to cut light in evening to maintain a rhytm might be simple and additive to everything else.
I had mature hair line by 19 y.o, but my diffused thining started picking up, when me sleep schedule severely got cut to 4-5 hours(but again, this was due to gut issues), I was miserable and my hair followed.
Now I have a 22 y.o friend, dad not balding. He started drinking coffee and claims it's the reason for his starting hair loss. He wants to achieve a lot in a small time frame, so his sleep is 4-5h and a afternoon nap, coupled with increased drinking over his usual. I would bet his hair loss is due to that.

Is oral Melatonin beneficial though?

A lot claim it increases their shedding I think...

 

[Progesterone]

Eating low-fat (by lowering estrogen) and taking thyroid hormones (probably by increasing androgens) absolutely murdered my hair in less than a week. My entire right temple shed so badly it's like there's barely anything there anymore. I've never had such a hard shed in such a short time in my life.

It's a shame, because I actually feel quite a bit better this week. But, that is nothing new, because based on my observations, keeping hair and being healthy are two diametrically opposed things for MPB sufferers.

Estrogen, which is fantastic for hair, is absolutely detrimental to everything else in the male body, and androgens, which are what makes us male, confident, strong, and give us libido, will annihilate your hair.

I know some of you will take issue with these claims, but I've been fighting MPB for over 3 years, I've seen my fair share of what works and what doesn't, and when someone claims they have regrowth but they don't post pictures, I simply stop listening.

The only things that work which are anti-androgens like Finasteride and RU, will damage your health in numerous ways, I'm not going to state those things are good, I've felt all the detrimental effects.
It's just a damn shame it has to be such a toss-up between feeling like a healthy man and looking like one as well.

Perhaps when Setipiprant becomes affordable, or Fevipiprant, will offer us some sort of side-effect free way to keep our hair while not being too damaging on the ol' health.

I'm on Tyromix (1 drop a day) and I feel like I'm shedding more..... It's t3/t4 combo but very low dose. U think i should stop? thing is my TSH was 4.23 and my temp is low so I am surely hypothyroid....

Which thyroid hormones did u take exactly? dosage?

have u ever tried progesterone?

 

[brix]

I'm beginning to think that Mpb might be a huge symptom of inflammation built up in the body. That is, the body is vulnerable to inflammation and anything that aggravates it worsens the Mpb in turn. Prolactin, high sugar diet, DHT, pgd2, high esteogen, fungi, junk food, irregular thyroid all seem to affect Hair loss.

I don't know why our bodies are more susceptible to this inflammation, or why it started in the first place, but I believe this is what's happened. I know when I first started losing my hair, it was accompanied with sebboreah dermatitis and a dreadful itch.

Mine started the same way.
It's been 7 years and still only have temple recession though.

 

[Kibs]

Hi, so I just finished my 1 week trial of topical B6 and zinc suflate and I must say I'm pretty impressed. The theory is that both of them applied together can inhibit 5AR and that is why they work, but I don't buy that. So I looked into it more and right in front of my face, which I should have known off the top of my head is that both B6 and zinc lower prolactin significantly hence raising dopamine (which we already know pro dopamine substances are good for hair and hair color). So I think both of these substances work by lowering prolactin on the scalp. Also, I even started the topical B6 a few days prior to the zinc and I noticed a reduction in sebum and my hair seemed darker/healthier so again there is no 5AR reduction there when they are used individually (quite the opposite as both can INCREASE 5AR).

During this trial, I was using nothing else for hair purposes (I'm even on thyroid hormone, which sometimes can increase my shedding, but I didn't notice anything). I would suggest playing around with the dose to see what fits you right but I'm doing the following:

• Vitamin B6 100mg tablet and zinc sulfate capsule (220mg) dumped into around 8-10ML of warm water. Stir up with spoon and dissolve it. Then apply to scalp with dropper about an hour before bed and rinse out in morning. I sometimes don't even use the the full 8ML when my hair is short, so I don't think you need that strong of a concentration. That is it- very simple. Feel free to add it to your existing solutions if you want, I personally did it alone b/c I wanted to see if it actually works and it does surprisingly.

Also another member on here said he regrew hair with bromo (dopamine agonist) which would be in line with the B6/zinc prolactin theory.

What Have Been Proven Work For Hair Regrowth By Member Here?

Interesting, wonder if I should add this to my topical. I have taken out the caffeine and now just using msm, taurine, b3 but may add b6/zinc to the mix.

Interesting the b6 is darkening your hair, with my concoction I'm sure it's making my hair lighter, wonder what will happen if I add the b6. Have to say my hair has never been so healthy looking and feels great.

Also I'm on t3, a high dose and never got any shedding.

 

[Kibs]

TubZy thought I'd add I use the msm,taurine, b3 on my skin too and as a face wash, after reading up the zinc and b6 would be good for the skin too.

 

[Pointless]

I'm on Tyromix (1 drop a day) and I feel like I'm shedding more..... It's t3/t4 combo but very low dose. U think i should stop? thing is my TSH was 4.23 and my temp is low so I am surely hypothyroid....

Which thyroid hormones did u take exactly? dosage?

have u ever tried progesterone?

Hair loss and hypothyroidism is strongly correlated. No I don't think you should stop with that tsh. You're probably either crashing your cholesterol or suppressing your endogenous thyroid function. It's possible to dose thyroid too low. You should try different ratios of t3:t4, different speed increasing the dose, different routes: orally, sublingually, topically, before you call it quits.

 

[Scenes]

Eating low-fat (by lowering estrogen) and taking thyroid hormones (probably by increasing androgens) absolutely murdered my hair in less than a week. My entire right temple shed so badly it's like there's barely anything there anymore. I've never had such a hard shed in such a short time in my life.

It's a shame, because I actually feel quite a bit better this week. But, that is nothing new, because based on my observations, keeping hair and being healthy are two diametrically opposed things for MPB sufferers.

Estrogen, which is fantastic for hair, is absolutely detrimental to everything else in the male body, and androgens, which are what makes us male, confident, strong, and give us libido, will annihilate your hair.

I know some of you will take issue with these claims, but I've been fighting MPB for over 3 years, I've seen my fair share of what works and what doesn't, and when someone claims they have regrowth but they don't post pictures, I simply stop listening.

The only things that work which are anti-androgens like Finasteride and RU, will damage your health in numerous ways, I'm not going to state those things are good, I've felt all the detrimental effects.
It's just a damn shame it has to be such a toss-up between feeling like a healthy man and looking like one as well.

Perhaps when Setipiprant becomes affordable, or Fevipiprant, will offer us some sort of side-effect free way to keep our hair while not being too damaging on the ol' health.

My experience is similar and I've said the same thing on here before...high androgens and the strong, confident feeling that comes with it often mean worse skin and hair in my case.

However, I think I'm starting to see a change. I can add 1 drop of k2 to gonads and significantly increase libido (I assume by also increasing androgens?) and find my hair if anything looked better. I tried adding androsterone as well but 5 drops was too much and I got a stress response that day from not eating enough.

The focus for me right now is getting bowels and liver health to optimal...my hair has softened and thickened during this process and my shedding has reduced. I think, like you're saying, that we're hypersensitive to androgens and we either over-convert to estrogen or we fail to lower cortisol so we have high dht/cortisol/prolactin altogether.

I think I'm going to need a couple of months of bowel/liver health before I can change much else with androgens.