MORE WEIGHT LOSS TALK

[Rinse & rePeat]

Reread what he said.

Im interrupting it differently than your conclusion.

I haven’t quoted Ray Peat, but I will.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Make what you will of these quotes, but I am going with carbs and proteins matter more than the calories, meaning lots of fruit, honey, sugar, and raw milk. Like I said in my last post it is what what the calorie is made that matters most not the amount of them….

“Regenerative healing also requires freedom from substances that inhibit the digestion of the debris. The great decline in proteolytic autophagy that occurs with aging (Del Roso, et al., 2003) can be reduced by inhibiting the release of fatty acids. This effect is additive to the antiaging effects of calorie restriction, suggesting that it is largely the decrease of dietary fats that makes calorie restriction effective.” -Ray Peat

“In a study of the "malnourished" children of migrant fruit pickers in California, these children who were "seriously anemic" were actually more resistant to infectious diseases than were the "well nourished" middle class children in the same region."- Ray Peat

Calorie-restricted animals (on a diet of normal composition) have a lower degree of fat unsaturation in their mitochondria as they age, preserving the relatively more saturated fats of youth.” -Ray Peat

“Caloric restriction does extend the life span of many species, but it generally preserves the high metabolic rate of youth, so that at a given age the calorie-restricted animal has a higher rate of oxygen consumption per gram of body weight than the unrestricted eaters” -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

If I were to eat 220 calories of shrimp, which would be 2 servings, and a half pound worth, 5 oranges for another 350 calories and 2 servings of gelatin, 24 grams, for 90 calories and 3 glasses of nonfat milk for another 270 calories and maybe 5 tablespoon of raw honey for another 300 calories for a total of under 1200 calories, I am not going to be less healthy than someone who ate 3000 calories consisting of meat, coconut oil, rice, potatoes, eggs, milk and sugar I personally think calorie restriction that provides sugars and proteins, minus the fats and empty calories, could cure a lot of issues. My list has around 110 grams of protein and no fat, with very little calories. This is probably more to why calorie restriction is confusing. Calorie restriction via starvation/fasting, meaning no proteins, carbs or vitamins and minerals, and that is not good.

 

[TheToad]

If I were to eat 220 calories of shrimp, which would be 2 servings, and a half pound worth, 5 oranges for another 350 calories and 2 servings of gelatin, 24 grams, for 90 calories and 3 glasses of nonfat milk for another 270 calories and maybe 5 tablespoon of raw honey for another 300 calories for a total of under 1200 calories, I am not going to be less healthy than someone who ate 3000 calories consisting of meat, coconut oil, rice, potatoes, eggs, milk and sugar I personally think calorie restriction that provides sugars and proteins, minus the fats and empty calories, could cure a lot of issues. My list has around 110 grams of protein and no fat, with very little calories. This is probably more to why calorie restriction is confusing. Calorie restriction via starvation/fasting, meaning no proteins, carbs or vitamins and minerals, and that is not good.

This is exactly what I've been experiencing since I started peating. I was introduces to peating through and exercise program that wanted to put more muscle on me to upregulate metabolism and eventually allow me to eat more food. It sounded great in the beginning. But I very soon realized: eating became a chore and I HATED eating in a calorie surplus. I had been skinny before and truth be told I was skinny fat. But that wasnt because I didnt have jacked muscles and also not bc I wasnt eating 2,000 kcal/day. Stress, high cortisol and sky high estorgen (PCOS) had much more to do with it. And yes, I was eating less calories than the average person, but I was very comfortable with it and I'd much rather eat 1,000-1,500 and be happy with it than force myself to eat 3,000 kcal every day just for the sake of ramping up my metabolism.

Kate Deering once said in a podcast/interview with the Strong Sisters something along the lines of "If you achieve a very high metabolism that needs a lot of calories to maintain then you will have to take care of it. It's a fulltime job, all the eating, all the calories that you gotta supply. You cant just neglect that"

If eating ever becomes a chore to me, and with that excersize program it definately did, then it will eventually become unenjoyable to me. And that's just not worth the metabolism-hype.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

This is exactly what I've been experiencing since I started peating. I was introduces to peating through and exercise program that wanted to put more muscle on me to upregulate metabolism and eventually allow me to eat more food. It sounded great in the beginning. But I very soon realized: eating became a chore and I HATED eating in a calorie surplus. I had been skinny before and truth be told I was skinny fat. But that wasnt because I didnt have jacked muscles and also not bc I wasnt eating 2,000 kcal/day. Stress, high cortisol and sky high estorgen (PCOS) had much more to do with it. And yes, I was eating less calories than the average person, but I was very comfortable with it and I'd much rather eat 1,000-1,500 and be happy with it than force myself to eat 3,000 kcal every day just for the sake of ramping up my metabolism.

Kate Deering once said in a podcast/interview with the Strong Sisters something along the lines of "If you achieve a very high metabolism that needs a lot of calories to maintain then you will have to take care of it. It's a fulltime job, all the eating, all the calories that you gotta supply. You cant just neglect that"

If eating ever becomes a chore to me, and with that excersize program it definately did, then it will eventually become unenjoyable to me. And that's just not worth the metabolism-hype.

with it’s own cost, not to mention the monetary cost. The high amount of fats, iron and tryptophan alone works against all of those calories and causes it’s own aging issues. So the high calories is not only a full time job that costs a lot of money, it is taking two steps forward and two steps back right after. My calorie restriction understanding is just two steps forward with lots of money in my pocket and free time and none of the aging stuff to constantly have to try and undo.

 

[Momma]

If I were to eat 220 calories of shrimp, which would be 2 servings, and a half pound worth, 5 oranges for another 350 calories and 2 servings of gelatin, 24 grams, for 90 calories and 3 glasses of nonfat milk for another 270 calories and maybe 5 tablespoon of raw honey for another 300 calories for a total of under 1200 calories, I am not going to be less healthy than someone who ate 3000 calories consisting of meat, coconut oil, rice, potatoes, eggs, milk and sugar I personally think calorie restriction that provides sugars and proteins, minus the fats and empty calories, could cure a lot of issues. My list has around 110 grams of protein and no fat, with very little calories. This is probably more to why calorie restriction is confusing. Calorie restriction via starvation/fasting, meaning no proteins, carbs or vitamins and minerals, and that is not good.

I prefer to keep my metabolic rate up.
CR doesn’t support a robust metabolism or cellular energy production.
Nor do i enjoy being preoccupied with food or myself for that matter….

And that's just not worth the metabolism-hype.

A healthy metabolism is about more than the amount of food you eat.
Peat defines metabolism as mitochondrial respiration. Metabolism as life. Driving health, ageing, disease.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I prefer to keep my metabolic rate up.
CR doesn’t support a robust metabolism or cellular energy production.
Nor do i enjoy being preoccupied with food or myself for that matter….



A healthy metabolism is about more than the amount of food you eat.
Peat defines metabolism as mitochondrial respiration. Metabolism as life. Driving health, ageing, disease.

I don’t restrict calories, I just don’t shoot for eating and eating for the sake of calories. I enjoy my food whether it be 1200 calories one day and 2500 the next. I don’t have weight or health issues or take supplements, and I am doing better at 59 than anyone I know at any other age.

 

[TheToad]

A healthy metabolism is about more than the amount of food you eat.
Peat defines metabolism as mitochondrial respiration. Metabolism as life. Driving health, ageing, didisease.

I wasnt trying to disregard peat's work. I am all with you on healthy metabolism. But just as Rinse said for me, feeling my best and having healthy mitochondrial respiration isnt coupled to a specific caloric number and what most people would describe as CR is just my personal preference and set point.

You said you dont like to have your mind preoccupied with food all day when practising CR. For me it is the exact same when I try to eat the recommended 2,000 kcal... my mind doesnt get a break from food and meal planning even though I'm not even hungry.

 

[TheToad]

"Since lactic acid is produced by the breakdown of glucose, a high level if lactate in the blood means that a large amount of sugar us being consumed; in response the body mobilizes free fatty acids as an additional source of energy"

"Definition of Glycolysis: The conversion of glucose to lactic acid, providing some usable energy, but many times less than oxidation provides"

Both quotes are from Peat's Newsletter "Mitochondria and Mortality" from July 2000

I recently mentioned on this thread that I was experiencing mild muscle soreness since upping my carbs. It felt the same like it would after a workout, just very mildly, eventough I am not exercising.

I think this answers the question: Excess glycolysis converting the carbs into lactic acid and pyruvate rather than oxidizing them properly into CO2. Thus also increasing fatty acids, just like @Rinse & rePeat said.

I'm just sharing in case anyone might be interested or has had the same experience

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

UPDATE:

Well my figure not only survived the holidays, but got even better! I didn’t think I wanted to lose anymore weight at my last update, but I lost 3 more pounds over the holidays and 142 pounds looks really good on me! I like turning and not seeing any tummy, just flat all the way down, like my twenties and thirties! I did add in some red meat last week, worried about anymore weight loss, having a hot dog everyday and some taco meat on two days, but it didn’t deter my weight loss. It seems that keeping the starches and meat out of my diet got some moment going in my metabolism. One day last week, after my archery lesson, I went to a favorite Thai restaurant looking forward to their steamed clams in a broth, and had a little more of an appetite than usual, so I ordered a couple of their happy hour portions of two of their rice noodle dishes too, “Pad Thai” and “Pad See Ew”. I looked like a little piggy with all those dishes before me. I finished my clams and had soaked up the broth with a couple of little slices of the toasted bread that came with it, and left the third piece, and ate what I wanted of the meatless noodle dishes. I was surprised the next morning to weigh just the same as the day before! I don’t usually eat those noodle dishes, but I didn’t want cheap meat, and especially at night when it would disrupt my sleep, so it was the best choice before me at the time. Cutting out so much meat has been just as beneficial to getting my unwanted fat gone as removing the grains has been. I made some homemade blueberry muffins on Saturday, using 1 cup of all-purpose heirloom Einkorn flour and 1 cup of oat flour, and so many blueberries that I couldn’t see the cake, and butter of course, and I have had one the last 3 mornings and my scale numbers keep dropping each morning still. I can do no wrong in this sweet spot I’m in! Of course I am not going to undo any this going back of to old habits. I really don’t want anything I use to love anyways, at all! Another big change that always makes a difference, over the years, has been to avoid oils. I eat butter and that’s about it, maybe some beef tallow making taco meat, but no frying anything for me lately. I will post a new pic update when I get around to taking one, but in the meantime here has been my morning hot dog snack. I was telling my friend the other morning while eating one at 10:00, that a hot dog on a tiny buttered pan-fried brioche bun with ketchup, mustard and relish doesn’t sound good in the morning, but it sure tastes good!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“RP: Yeah. And, some people wake up cyclically during the night. When I was counseling dieters, there were some very fat people who would wake up: one of them woke up every hour during the night. The other one, I think, was sleeping an hour and a half, or so. And I got them to set an alarm clock to wake themselves up about 5 or 10 minutes before their expected waking, and eat anything with carbohydrates (milk, or juice, or even a cracker or something), and to do that every hour. And, within a week, they were sleeping through the night, and then they were able to start losing weight. Those stress hormones that raise your temperature and pulse rate around dawn were also increasing the blood sugar ( in diabetics, they call it the dawn phenomenon). But it’s the result of the stress hormones that rise during the night. The darkness itself is causing stress, activating hormones. So, in the winter, people are more likely to have disturbed sleep, because of long nights. And getting extra carbohydrates late in the day can help you sleep longer without these episodes of…usually, its nightmares waking people up with a pounding heart.“

Some Ray Peat Quotes On Sleep From Audio Transcripts

I went through a sleep search specific to the audio transcripts and found the following. Seems a common issue so hopefully will help others. If you need more context, click the link about the quote and search for sleep Ray Peat on Sleep Uses Of Urea - KMUD, 2015-02-20 RP: The blood sugar is...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“To produce pregnenolone, thyroid, vitamin A, and cholesterol have to be delivered to the mitochondria in the right proportion and sufficient quantity. Normally, stress is balanced by increased synthesis of pregnenolone, which improves the ability to cope with stress. Lipid peroxidation, resulting from the accumulation of unsaturated fatty acids, iron, and energy deficiency, damages the mitochondrias' ability to produce pregnenolone. When pregnenolone is inadequate, cortisol is over-produced. When progesterone is deficient, estrogen's effect is largely unopposed. When both thyroid and progesterone are deficient, even fat cells synthesize estrogen.” -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“Vegetable oil suppresses the thyroid, increasing estrogen.” -Ray Peat

 

[Ynot]

UPDATE:

Well my figure not only survived the holidays, but got even better! I didn’t think I wanted to lose anymore weight at my last update, but I lost 3 more pounds over the holidays and 142 pounds looks really good on me! I like turning and not seeing any tummy, just flat all the way down, like my twenties and thirties! I did add in some red meat last week, worried about anymore weight loss, having a hot dog everyday and some taco meat on two days, but it didn’t deter my weight loss. It seems that keeping the starches and meat out of my diet got some moment going in my metabolism. One day last week, after my archery lesson, I went to a favorite Thai restaurant looking forward to their steamed clams in a broth, and had a little more of an appetite than usual, so I ordered a couple of their happy hour portions of two of their rice noodle dishes too, “Pad Thai” and “Pad See Ew”. I looked like a little piggy with all those dishes before me. I finished my clams and had soaked up the broth with a couple of little slices of the toasted bread that came with it, and left the third piece, and ate what I wanted of the meatless noodle dishes. I was surprised the next morning to weigh just the same as the day before! I don’t usually eat those noodle dishes, but I didn’t want cheap meat, and especially at night when it would disrupt my sleep, so it was the best choice before me at the time. Cutting out so much meat has been just as beneficial to getting my unwanted fat gone as removing the grains has been. I made some homemade blueberry muffins on Saturday, using 1 cup of all-purpose heirloom Einkorn flour and 1 cup of oat flour, and so many blueberries that I couldn’t see the cake, and butter of course, and I have had one the last 3 mornings and my scale numbers keep dropping each morning still. I can do no wrong in this sweet spot I’m in! Of course I am not going to undo any this going back of to old habits. I really don’t want anything I use to love anyways, at all! Another big change that always makes a difference, over the years, has been to avoid oils. I eat butter and that’s about it, maybe some beef tallow making taco meat, but no frying anything for me lately. I will post a new pic update when I get around to taking one, but in the meantime here has been my morning hot dog snack. I was telling my friend the other morning while eating one at 10:00, that a hot dog on a tiny buttered pan-fried brioche bun with ketchup, mustard and relish doesn’t sound good in the morning, but it sure tastes good!

This is awesome to hear.

Do you do anything to balance out any pufas from the Thai food - pad Thai and pad see ew?

So is the thinking that a period of minimal starches and meat rebooted things?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

This is awesome to hear.

Do you do anything to balance out any pufas from the Thai food - pad Thai and pad see ew?

So is the thinking that a period of minimal starches and meat rebooted things?

I think the starches and meat was really bogging me down. My body seems to appreciate me not having to work so hard all the time with me avoiding them, for a good amount of time, and my metabolism could finally get some momentum. My body now seems to eagerly tackle whatever occasional “splurge” I throw in the mix, rather than me constantly piling those splurges one on top of the other on a regular basis.

I use to take a baby aspirin when I would have to eat PUFA’s, but then sometimes I would forget to take one, so now I just get a good dose of Progest-E in me before I go out so I don’t have to think about it. I would take both, but my blood is too thin to do that. I have to pick one or the other.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"Since lactic acid is produced by the breakdown of glucose, a high level if lactate in the blood means that a large amount of sugar us being consumed; in response the body mobilizes free fatty acids as an additional source of energy"

"Definition of Glycolysis: The conversion of glucose to lactic acid, providing some usable energy, but many times less than oxidation provides"

Both quotes are from Peat's Newsletter "Mitochondria and Mortality" from July 2000

I recently mentioned on this thread that I was experiencing mild muscle soreness since upping my carbs. It felt the same like it would after a workout, just very mildly, eventough I am not exercising.

I think this answers the question: Excess glycolysis converting the carbs into lactic acid and pyruvate rather than oxidizing them properly into CO2. Thus also increasing fatty acids, just like @Rinse & rePeat said.

I'm just sharing in case anyone might be interested or has had the same experience

Rita you’re brilliant! This is to the point that hitting a particular high number of calories everyday isn’t the answer. Some days we need a lot and some days we don’t. We have to listen to the subtle messages our body emits, as long as we are listening to our hunger cues. I’ll tell you what it has been so much more enjoyable eating when I am hungry than just mindlessly eating….

Rinse & rePeat:
“…. is it better to eat BEFORE you get hungry or eat when you ARE hungry?”

RAY PEAT:
“When hungry..”

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“When we eat more protein or carbohydrate than we need, the excess can be converted to fats, to be stored (as triglycerides), but even on a maintenance diet we synthesize some fats that are essential parts of all of our cells, including a great variety of phospholipids.” -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

This RP advice, in the short clip below, has worked beautifully for me! He suggests taking out the muscle meat, including fish, and using milk and sugar sources instead to activate the liver and more thyroid hormones, to lose weight, which is exactly what I have done. I do eat shellfish when I can. Because I am not eating too many savory foods, I make sure I put a good pinch of salt in my orange Julius and my coffees. Yesterday I was down to a 141 pounds and thought I should mix things up and ordered manicotti from a high quality restaurant. The ricotta and egg filling was wrapped in a thin homemade crepe rather than a thick wheaty noodle. The sauce was a garden fresh marinara that was cooked lightly and I ate the whole order last night for dinner. I was up a pound, but I will be down again by tonight if I play my cards right, and go back to my regular routine. I am saving my splurges for more of that dish, oh my gosh it was so healthy tasting and felt good too!


View: https://youtu.be/jQw1SJ3UFww

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I sip on milk all day long, just a half a cup at a time, and get back to the business at hand. …


"Dividing any food into smaller meals can lower the PTH, and milk is a convenient food to use in small amounts and frequently." -Ray Peat

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

At about the 47 minute mark in this video RP talks about how when he started taking thyroid his calorie requirement dropped by about 50%….



View: https://youtu.be/ectFSs9nEcw