Need advice to lose fat

[Peata]

What are good ratios of carbs, fat, protein to lose weight healthily?

Looking at "trends" on Cronometer for the last 7 days, I get average of 2050 calories (interesting to me is that the Mayo Clinic calorie calculator says this is what I need to maintain my current weight).

Carbs: 246 g
Protein: 88 g
Fat: 66 g.

How does that look? Is it too much fat?

I eat cheese (low fat and regular), 1% milk, Greek yogurt, 2% cottage cheese, a little half½ coffee, sugar, gelatin, occasional eggs; potatoes, banana, carrot, vinegar/evoo dressing. Lately I've had 1/4-1/2 c. ice cream at night but I think I will cut it out because it wears off in 2 hours and I need more sugar before bed. I have been eating chocolate but might be due to luteal phase craving. Meat usually just once per day. A few prunes sometimes. Or other fruit. Oysters and liver about once weekly. Somedays I barely get any starch, other days I eat it in form of sourdough or other bread (as in a sandwich), or my homemade pizza crust or 1/2 c. pasta.

Any suggestions on what to tweak for some fat loss?

Everytime I think I'm finally starting to lose some, I just go back up. The only thing I'm relieved about is that I seem to have managed to stop the continuous climb up the scale.

I lift weight 3 x week and walk at least 3 x week.

Thanks.

 

[juanitacarlos]

i find the online calculators are awful. Ridiculous actually. I wouldn't worry about they say and just look at the results you get.

The ratio's look fine to me. I think it's pretty individual although I'm sure some will say more carbs and less fat. I try to keep fat in check but I always end up around 25-30% fat which seems to be the default for me. I'm losing weight really easily right now eating starch every day - bread, rice and potatoes.

The one thing I can suggest which has absolutely kick started my weight loss is glycine - I am taking 10g per day and I believe it is the main reason I am losing weight.

I find ice-cream does not help weight loss (for me anyway).

Do you get "stressed" after exercise? I started weight lifting about a month ago and find I have to now eat lots of salt again.

 

[schultz]

I feel the best on 65% Carbohydrate, 20% Protein, 15% Fat, at least while I'm trying to lose fat.
On a higher calorie diet, something like 3,000-4,000, it's maybe more like 65%C, 15% Pro, 20%Fat

Peat mentioned in a podcast that as long as the macro's are from ideal sources, then you can go high in any one of the macros.

"The proportion of protein, carbohydrate and fat, it probably should be something like a third of each but I'm not sure what the ideal is. It depends so much on the quality of each of them. Avoiding starch and avoiding poly-unsaturated fats, and avoiding the very high tryptophane content proteins, then you could go very high on any one of the major nutrients"

He also mentions right before this that ideally he would get around half his calories from fruit.

The quote I believe is from the Milk podcast from East/West

 

[Mittir]

I remember in KMUD weight loss or in another interview RP mentioned that
after 80 grams of protein and little bit of oil with each meal one can
eat sugar to fill rest of the calories. In another place he mentioned that
for weight loss purpose one should use 1 tsp of coconut oil with each meal.
If one is consuming 2000 calories, 80 grams of protein is 16 percent of calories,
1 tbs of coconut oil is 8 percent fat and rest of the 76 percent is carbohydrate/sugar.
Anyone who is interested in losing weight can listen to KMUD weight loss interview.

 

[lindsay]

Peata, from what you've said in previous threads, I feel like your fat gain is due to estrogen dominance and possibly insulin resistance? At least you mentioned that. Have you had your insulin levels checked at a doctor?

In my experience, no amount of anything works so much as dealing with estrogen - which is SO hard when you are somewhere on the menopause spectrum. However, I had appendicitis in September and after surgery I was on two antibiotics for 10 days. I noticed it really helped with the estrogen dominance symptoms (and bad digestion). But alas, antibiotics are short lived and now I have to manage the estrogen on my own. I think working on gut health is usually the key to weight loss. Also, lowering my sugar level intake has helped keep the fat gain off my middle, but again, the look of my tummy could fluctuate from day to day depending on digestion and estrogen, so it's hard to figure out.

However, practical things you could try would be:

-Eat what you crave (but be conscious of your cravings). If you crave sugar, I would load up on the Oranges (because they have anti-estrogenic chemicals) and OJ (also contains these compounds). I found I do better with hard cheeses than with lots of milk. The fat/protein combo in cheese is paired well with fruit and very satisfying.

-Stop logging your food intake and worrying about ratios. I stopped doing this after my surgery and the stress relief is really nice because I'm not looking at how much fat I eat or calories - I'm letting my cravings guide me rationally.

-I think ttramone is onto something with the glycine, since it is an anti-inflammatory amino acid. I started looking at shellfish and some shellfish have more glycine than beef shank (in relation to overall protein count) - like scallops, oysters, shrimp. I don't log my food intake, but I do like to compare the nutritional profile of proteins and oysters look the most fantastic due to their high Zinc content. It might be worthwhile eating more oysters and less muscle meats (liver aside - it's also a powerhouse).

-Other things that have seemingly helped me on a daily basis are vitamin E (usually 800 IU or more daily), topical application of vitamin E, D, A and I just bought the thorne D3/K2 combo. I mix the oils with some lotion and put them on my stomach, which is my problem area after two major abdominal surgeries in the past year and a half. I've notice the skin has smoothed out a bit and has less of the "cellulite" look, but I have to apply daily. I think topical application of the fat solubles could be very beneficial, especially Vitamin E - which is anti estrogenic. Also works well for fibrocystic breasts. I think taking vitamin E has been just as beneficial as progest-e, which is good because I wanted to be able to use less of the stuff!!

Anyhow, sorry to write so much. Please let us know how you progress, but I really think gut health is the first place to start. An antibiotic could really jump start the process, but is probably not ideal. I was considering doing the garlic antibiotic route - thebigpeatowski said it allowed him to lose weight and improve digestion.

 

[lindsay]

The one thing I can suggest which has absolutely kick started my weight loss is glycine - I am taking 10g per day and I believe it is the main reason I am losing weight.

ttramone, what brand of glycine/gelatin are you using??

 

[tca300]

For me and most I have worked with Dairy and dietary Fat will raise estrogen levels, regardless of the source, which will add a few extra spare tires usually. Supplementing with bright light as much as possible and bag breathing for a few minutes 2 or so times per day will raise metabolism. Starch is going to make it harder to lose weight vs sugar. Standing and walking as much as possible everyday vs sitting will keep lipoprotein lipase elevated, and one of the functions of that enzyme is to torch fat circulating in the bloodstream. Dairy has never been my friend when it comes to staying slim, and no matter the source, grassfed, organic, raw or all the above has always raised my estrogen and I find it impossible for me to keep estrogen down while consuming dairy.

*IMPORTANT* I read a study done not to long ago that analyzed skim, low fat, whole and butter milk for their levels of estrogen and the skim had more estrogen than the whole milk did. So low fat dairy is actually worse than full fat, and full fat still has estrogen sooooooooo.. you decide for yourself I suppose. When I find the study again I will post it.

 

[Jennifer]

Dairy has never been my friend when it comes to staying slim, and no matter the source, grassfed, organic, raw or all the above has always raised my estrogen and I find it impossible for me to keep estrogen down while consuming dairy.

tca, when you say dairy has always raised your estrogen, are you going by symptoms or actual blood tests?

I've read where a few people say dairy raises their estrogen and always wondered if they go by blood tests or symptoms only and if by symptoms only, how do they distinguish them from hypothyroid or excess cortisol symptoms? I have a hard time telling the difference.

I've been getting my hormones tested every 6-8 weeks and have always had low estrogen and prolactin levels from the beginning, but once I added more dairy in, my estrogen and prolactin levels dropped slightly. I've often wondered how accurate blood tests are.

If I remember correctly, Ray has mention prolactin to be a good indicator of total body estrogen, since you mentioned dairy and fat will raise estrogen levels for "most you have worked with," I take it you have experience in the health field? Do you find prolactin and standard hormone blood tests to be at all accurate?

Thanks so much!

 

[tca300]

I mostly go based on symptoms and how I or someone feels, but I do blood tests too and have never once seen someones estrogen not go down ( also always improving their estrogen to progesterone ratio ) after dropping dairy and lowering dietary fat intake, and not see it drop like a rock with raw carrots along with lower fat and no dairy, even ray peat says ultimately lowering total fat is best because you cant get saturated fat without some pufa, its impossible. Many people can have whats considered perfect blood work and still feel like crap. I mean after all, isn't the whole point of eating healthy to FEEL your best... and stay cancer free etc. I don't even know if I answered your question hahaha. And Im NOT anti dairy, Its just more times than not, people with really bad issues may not react so well to it.

 

[lindsay]

I mostly go based on symptoms and how I or someone feels, but I do blood tests too and have never once seen someones estrogen not go down ( also always improving their estrogen to progesterone ratio ) after dropping dairy and lowering dietary fat intake, and not see it drop like a rock with raw carrots along with lower fat and no dairy, even ray peat says ultimately lowering total fat is best because you cant get saturated fat without some pufa, its impossible. Many people can have whats considered perfect blood work and still feel like crap. I mean after all, isn't the whole point of eating healthy to FEEL your best... and stay cancer free etc. I don't even know if I answered your question hahaha. And Im NOT anti dairy, Its just more times than not, people with really bad issues may not react so well to it.

I don't react well to certain kinds of dairy - mainly milk. However, if I drink a cup or two per day in coffee, it's not so problematic, probably because of the magnesium in the coffee (I usually grind to espresso grade). For me, hard cheese is the best calcium source - it could be due to the lack of fluids, but I can eat a few oz. of cheese daily and not gain weight, despite it's high fat content. Right after I had my appendectomy, there were days where I would eat 6 oz. of full fat cheese (so like almost 50 grams) and I actually lost weight during that time.

So, I don't really think it's the dairy that's causing the estrogen issues, I think it's the estrogen causing issues with dairy and weight gain. I have days when I can eat lots of dairy and feel great and days when I can't - it really seems like estrogen is the culprit, more so than the dairy. However, when you are in menopause, too much calcium might not be good without keeping estrogen levels in check.....

 

[Jennifer]

That was very helpful! Thank you, tca!

Ever since doing 80/10/10 for two years, I get what starts out as hives that turn to a full blown rash on my face and this only happens with dairy. I've been trying to sort out if it's an estrogen issue in my body stores or to a true dairy allergy. I've done all the bacterial/fungal tests, have done antibiotics, a slew of natural anti-fungals, carrot salad and tried practically every dairy source under the sun and I still get the rash.

When I google pictures of milk allergies, this picture is exactly what my face ends up looking like:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/laurabe ... 6.jpg.html

Within two days of stopping milk consumption, the rash is almost completely gone. Not even Benadryl has worked past day two of taking it every four hours.

With what you said, I'd say my symptoms are a clear indication it's not working for me right now so I'll have to figure out how to get my protein needs met without dairy since it's been my main source besides eggs. I like eggs, but I can only take so much of them in a day.

Anyhow, thanks again for the insight, tca! This gives me a lot to think about. :)

Oops, I just saw your post, Lindsay.

I know we've talked about this before, but yeah, I share the same experience as you that milk doesn't make me gain weight, but actually leans me out.

Unfortunately, I get the opposite reaction where cheese gives me the worst rash and extreme gut pain and cramping. It completely binds me up.

Even 1 1/2 bottles of progest-e a week isn't stopping the rash. I was hoping if it was stemming from estrogen that the progest-e would make even the slightest difference so I would know what I'm actually dealing with.

Oh my beloved dairy! Where is the love?

 

[tca300]

I don't know anyone long term who eats a lot of fat and stays skinny. Unless over time they continue to lower their calories as there metabolism slows down. For instance I remember reading an article from Mark Sisson who is a paleo high fat low carb promoter, and he said he eats about 1700 calories per day.. And he has to eat that little because his metabolism has basically shut down. On the opposite side, I've seen many who cut fat and stay slim long term without cutting calories.

 

[lindsay]

Ever since doing 80/10/10 for two years, I get what starts out as hives that turn to a full blown rash on my face and this only happens with dairy.

Jennifer, one of my dear friends used to have this happen and it was so sad, because we regularly used to go get Kohr's frozen custard together!! I think she said taking Lactaid helped with the problem, but for awhile she had to go without milk.

On a side note, it could be that you are reacting to something the cow is eating, more so than the dairy - especially if you are drinking raw milk. I used to get a stuffy nose from the raw milk I drink, but if I heated it lightly (not pasteurized temps) I wouldn't have the reaction.

I tend to get dry eyelids if I eat daily wheat or starch - goes away when I stop (which makes me sad because I really love starch!) As a child, I had eczema really bad on my face, so I think it's all gut related.

 

[superhuman]

tca300: alot of cool information from you.
I was wondering about one thing tho in regards to dairy.
What about your calcium to phosphorus ratio then? what about the amino acid balance ? since meat and all contains alot of trypt and other bad aminos or higher amounts of them i should say

 

[Jennifer]

Ever since doing 80/10/10 for two years, I get what starts out as hives that turn to a full blown rash on my face and this only happens with dairy.

Jennifer, one of my dear friends used to have this happen and it was so sad, because we regularly used to go get Kohr's frozen custard together!! I think she said taking Lactaid helped with the problem, but for awhile she had to go without milk.

On a side note, it could be that you are reacting to something the cow is eating, more so than the dairy - especially if you are drinking raw milk. I used to get a stuffy nose from the raw milk I drink, but if I heated it lightly (not pasteurized temps) I wouldn't have the reaction.

I tend to get dry eyelids if I eat daily wheat or starch - goes away when I stop (which makes me sad because I really love starch!) As a child, I had eczema really bad on my face, so I think it's all gut related.

Thank you for the suggestions, Lindsay.

Is Lactain used for lactose intolerance? I was tested so I know lactose intolerance isn't the issue, which makes sense given that cheese is the worst offender for me and milk the least.

Oh well! I don't want to push it anymore and so I've stopped having any.

Besides scallops and crab, chicken is the only meat I ever enjoyed having so I made some tropical chicken yesterday and my gut handled it just fine. I'm going to stick with it as a main protein source.

My brother taught me a brining technique for chicken where you steep herbs/spices, salt and sugar in a bucket, adding small amounts of water from a boiling tea kettle every 20 minutes or so till it's pretty full and once all cooled, you add the bird and let it soak overnight. This makes the most unbelievably juicy chicken I've ever had that doesn't require any deep frying.

 

[bk-]

Great signature Jennifer!!

 

[aquaman]

My brother taught me a brining technique for chicken where you steep herbs/spices, salt and sugar in a bucket, adding small amounts of water from a boiling tea kettle every 20 minutes or so till it's pretty full and once all cooled, you add the bird and let it soak overnight. This makes the most unbelievably juicy chicken I've ever had that doesn't require any deep frying.

This sounds great Jennifer. Can you give more specifics about what to do? why do you have to continually add hot water to the spices? And rougly what mix of spices?

 

[tca300]

tca300: alot of cool information from you.
I was wondering about one thing tho in regards to dairy.
What about your calcium to phosphorus ratio then? what about the amino acid balance ? since meat and all contains alot of trypt and other bad aminos or higher amounts of them i should say

Oranges are very high in calcium..The amount of orange juice i consume gives me a good calcium to phosphorus ratio, not even counting the fact that the fructose will help my body excrete some extra phosphorus as well..In my opinion meat has a better balance than dairy. Meat is a lot lower in Tryptophan than dairy is, ya meats a little higher in cysteine but cysteine's not a precursor to serotonin like tryptophan is, the little extra cysteine has seemed to help my hair health out as well. And methionine is about the same concentration in milk as ground beef, except ground beef has much more glycine in it than milk does, and glycine is used to detoxify methionine. So truly comparing milk and meat one on one, I think the aminos in meat are more beneficial.. but people will argue and say meat is high in iron and phosphorus, so there's no perfect protein source. I just think in regards to my diet as a whole, meat is superior ( FOR ME )

 

[superhuman]

tca300:

Thank you. How much meat do you consume a day? and what kind of meats do you use?

 

[Jennifer]

Great signature Jennifer!!

Thanks, Brian! In Your Eyes is really a favorite of mine. :)

My brother taught me a brining technique for chicken where you steep herbs/spices, salt and sugar in a bucket, adding small amounts of water from a boiling tea kettle every 20 minutes or so till it's pretty full and once all cooled, you add the bird and let it soak overnight. This makes the most unbelievably juicy chicken I've ever had that doesn't require any deep frying.

This sounds great Jennifer. Can you give more specifics about what to do? why do you have to continually add hot water to the spices? And rougly what mix of spices?

Sorry I missed your comment, aquaman.

The basic recipe calls for:

1 gallon of water
1/2 cup salt
1/2 cup packed brown sugar
spices of choice (we use bay leaves and peppercorns and whatever whole leave herbs we have on hand)

To brine:

Heat water. We use a tea kettle to heat some of it up in smaller batches to keep the spices and herbs steeping for longer to really release their flavor, along with really allowing the salt and sugar to thoroughly dissolve and mix with the water.

After the 1 gallon of water is all heated, let cool.

Place in whole chicken or breasts and let soak overnight in the fridge. (I leave it outside when I make it during the colder months).