How To Lose Fat (and What Not To Do)

[DrJ]

Hard cheeses have enzymes in them, right? That might be why your digestion improves. Could be the easily digested proteins and the minerals helping as well.

Enzymes like rennet? But wouldn't softer cheeses have that also? Like I think brie is quite 'active.' It's really noticeable how much better my digestion works on hard cheeses, so I was trying to identify the difference between those and other dairy products which all have easily digested proteins and lots of calcium.

 

[Pointless]

I'm also curious to know if K2 improved your digestion if you can answer. I've noticed that my digestion improves if I eat more hard cheeses, and I've never been able to figure out why. I was reading recently, though, that hard cheeses have quite a bit of K2 in them, and I started to wonder if this might be the reason.

Less fat in my stool but digestion otherwise not affected by K2

 

[Peata]

I'm also curious to know if K2 improved your digestion if you can answer. I've noticed that my digestion improves if I eat more hard cheeses, and I've never been able to figure out why. I was reading recently, though, that hard cheeses have quite a bit of K2 in them, and I started to wonder if this might be the reason.

Could also be the butyrate which is good for colon.

 

[Maretch]

reading your comments and what you're talking about really helps me understand it better. thank again for everything.

 

[Maretch]

Less fat in my stool but digestion otherwise not affected by K2

maybe you haven't been on it for long enough?

 

[natedawggh]

That makes sense. Thanks.

If you really do need to lose that much though, you really need to focus on reducing Iron stores. Using cilantro daily (dried is easiest) can steadily decrease iron stores, as well as aspirin, perhaps milk thistle, cascara sagrada, by increasing the metabolic rate of the intestinal system, helps to prevent excess iron absorption, and of course avoiding high-iron foods. Iron overload is a huge contributor to weight gain, both from suppressing metabolic rate and also fueling excessive bacterial growth. I found cilantro very effective for awesome gradual and consistent weight loss.

That's such a roundabout way to answer haha. So is that about 200-300 grams a day?

:) that's because I don't measure. I just eat a crap ton of food. I know I go through a 4 lb bag about every 8 days, though eating high fat it's probably now about every 10 days...

 

[tomisonbottom]

If you really do need to lose that much though, you really need to focus on reducing Iron stores. Using cilantro daily (dried is easiest) can steadily decrease iron stores, as well as aspirin, perhaps milk thistle, cascara sagrada, by increasing the metabolic rate of the intestinal system, helps to prevent excess iron absorption, and of course avoiding high-iron foods. Iron overload is a huge contributor to weight gain, both from suppressing metabolic rate and also fueling excessive bacterial growth. I found cilantro very effective for awesome gradual and consistent weight loss.

20 pounds is "that much"? Honestly, it's probably more like 15.

But I'm curious, how quickly did you notice a difference with cilantro on your weight?
They said I couldn't even give blood last time because my iron saturation is so low and I crave red meat at times because I so rarely eat anything with iron in it. But my weight is at a standstill, so I'd be willing to try it.

 

[natedawggh]

20 pounds is "that much"? Honestly, it's probably more like 15.

But I'm curious, how quickly did you notice a difference with cilantro on your weight?
They said I couldn't even give blood last time because my iron saturation is so low and I crave red meat at times because I so rarely eat anything with iron in it. But my weight is at a standstill, so I'd be willing to try it.

Sorry I confused you for someone else who wants to loose 100... my bad. No need to if you have that low of iron.

 

[DrJ]

Could also be the butyrate which is good for colon.

Ah, no way! I didn't know about that. It's a great lead, thanks! Seems the type in dairy is sodium butyrate. It seems it can also be had as a supplement. Anyone ever tried it?

 

[tara]

Can't remember whether you've previously posted any data about what your blood sugars tend to do - do you happen to have any idea of whether they tend to go high or low or bounce between the two?
My guess, but is can be very individual, so may not be right for you: if they tend to drop too low, then small frequent feeding may have quite different effects than occasional larger ones with the same daily calories. Playing with food timing may make a difference. Eg more in the morning, less in the evening works well for some; small and frequent works for some.
The RBTI crew would say there's a natural tendency for most of us to have falling blood sugars in the morning and rising in the afternoon and evening, so it can help keep things more level if one eats mote on the falling curve, and less on the rising.

If you decide to ditch the B-complex it might be worth adding in small doses of niacinamide - eg 50 mg at a time with meals (or less or none if it bothers you personally).
Can you check with cronometer or something to see if you are getting at least 400mg Mg? If not, you might want to add a source of that - either as green broth or supplement?

Right now, my clothes are fitting looser, I'm warm much of the time, and I'm really enjoying what I eat.

:)

 

[sladerunner69]

I always had a rule to lose fat doesn't mean to eat nothing, eat everything but with moderation, and it will be ok. If there is a lot to lose, just cut off sweets, bread, and bad fats, include more vegetables, less fruits, as it contains sugar, and instead of this start to use vitamin supplements! There is nothing new, and i think that you have already heard about this! Good luck!

WHOA somebody is new to the forum!!!! We are all fans of sugar and sweets here, honey!

 

[Maretch]

WHOA somebody is new to the forum!!!! We are all fans of sugar and sweets here, honey!

you've hit the nail right on the head, yes I'm a newbie

 

[managing]

If you really do need to lose that much though, you really need to focus on reducing Iron stores. Using cilantro daily (dried is easiest) can steadily decrease iron stores, as well as aspirin, perhaps milk thistle, cascara sagrada, by increasing the metabolic rate of the intestinal system, helps to prevent excess iron absorption, and of course avoiding high-iron foods. Iron overload is a huge contributor to weight gain, both from suppressing metabolic rate and also fueling excessive bacterial growth. I found cilantro very effective for awesome gradual and consistent weight loss.

In regard to cilantro (and other considerations) would you distinguish between "beer belly" and "spare tire" fat? Spare tire, I assume, doesn't involve liver inflammation, whereas beer belly does.

 

[WestCoaster]

I think if someone is intent on losing fat, like really intent on losing fat and now playing the yo-yo game, they need to find something that's sustainable as to incorporate into a lifestyle. I've seen primal/paleo styles work, I've seen Peat styles work, and I've seen the annoying "I can eat whatever I like as long as I exercise" style work. The one common denominator of all the success stories is longevity. I honestly have not seen a scenario where someone has had success by bouncing between eating and exercise routines; it's always something that has been followed for months or even years. The body really seems to like balance and trying to throw it out of balance will inevitably cause a rebound effect. So if someone were to ask the question about losing weight and what NOT to do, i'd say this:

- Do not choose foods or an eating pattern in which you cannot see yourself realistically following it long term. For example, if you think you can't drink 1 quart OJ + 2 quarts milk daily long term, don't do it.
- Do not choose an exercise regimen that you cannot see yourself following long term. For example, deciding one day you'll start doing 1hr workouts 5x a week before work when realistically there is no way in hell you'll stick to it
- Do not start an activity that you do not enjoy doing, it won't do any favors for your stress levels

The key being stable sustainable activity and diet (and sleep) to keep the stress at bay that can be followed long term without any major adjustments, and to do things you enjoy doing. Everyone should be able to find their happy medium; when you find it, the stress will go down, and so will the body fat. One of the biggest keys though is sufficient sleep which everyone knows. There is no quicker way to kill your body temperature and metabolism than through lack of sleep.

I personally do a mix of primal/paleo/Peat, call it the PPP lol. My goal right now is to only eat when I'm hungry, drink only when thirsty, replace water with OJ, milk, and chocolate milk. Exercise at just the right intensity that I can continue it for 4 days in a row (my working schedule), while not feeling all beat up the next day. I try to eat as to not have any cravings at any given time. Part of my problem when i was doing the whole paleo/primal was that I'd have major sugar cravings every other day, along with major salt cravings whenever I ate a lot of meat, nor could I continue a workout plan that lasted anymore than 2 days in a row. That is what I'm trying to change now.

 

[javacody]

I think if someone is intent on losing fat, like really intent on losing fat and now playing the yo-yo game, they need to find something that's sustainable as to incorporate into a lifestyle. I've seen primal/paleo styles work, I've seen Peat styles work, and I've seen the annoying "I can eat whatever I like as long as I exercise" style work. The one common denominator of all the success stories is longevity. I honestly have not seen a scenario where someone has had success by bouncing between eating and exercise routines; it's always something that has been followed for months or even years. The body really seems to like balance and trying to throw it out of balance will inevitably cause a rebound effect. So if someone were to ask the question about losing weight and what NOT to do, i'd say this:

- Do not choose foods or an eating pattern in which you cannot see yourself realistically following it long term. For example, if you think you can't drink 1 quart OJ + 2 quarts milk daily long term, don't do it.
- Do not choose an exercise regimen that you cannot see yourself following long term. For example, deciding one day you'll start doing 1hr workouts 5x a week before work when realistically there is no way in hell you'll stick to it
- Do not start an activity that you do not enjoy doing, it won't do any favors for your stress levels

The key being stable sustainable activity and diet (and sleep) to keep the stress at bay that can be followed long term without any major adjustments, and to do things you enjoy doing. Everyone should be able to find their happy medium; when you find it, the stress will go down, and so will the body fat. One of the biggest keys though is sufficient sleep which everyone knows. There is no quicker way to kill your body temperature and metabolism than through lack of sleep.

I personally do a mix of primal/paleo/Peat, call it the PPP lol. My goal right now is to only eat when I'm hungry, drink only when thirsty, replace water with OJ, milk, and chocolate milk. Exercise at just the right intensity that I can continue it for 4 days in a row (my working schedule), while not feeling all beat up the next day. I try to eat as to not have any cravings at any given time. Part of my problem when i was doing the whole paleo/primal was that I'd have major sugar cravings every other day, along with major salt cravings whenever I ate a lot of meat, nor could I continue a workout plan that lasted anymore than 2 days in a row. That is what I'm trying to change now.

I agree wholeheartedly with your advice.

For people who need to lose weight who've never dieted before, I think things are easier. Switch to Peatier versions of what you're currently doing. Start with eliminating PUFA, add in some weekly liver and shellfish, drink some OJ and some milk.

But for many people who turn to Peat, I suspect we've all gone down at least one rabbit whole of orthorexia... er, I mean "dieting".

Some people who've been fat their whole lives have been dieting off and on since maybe they were teens, or even younger.

So for those of us in that situation, it can be hard to find that equilibrium. That's where I'm at right now.

So I'm learning to eat what I like but to do it in a more Peat friendly fashion. Was the spaghetti and corn I had for lunch Peaty? Not really. But I added a little MCT oil to the spaghetti noodles when I cooked them, used salt liberally, and drank coffee with skim milk and collagen with it.

By the way, I love spaghetti and corn. Potatoes and corn, too.

I think a big part of it is getting proper nutrition, maybe for the first time in your life, lowering estrogen, and not running off of cortisol/adrenalin. Fatty liver is a big concern for people in my boat, too.

It's quite a puzzle. And something that I don't think Ray Peat has a lot of experience with. He doesn't really speak about obesity much. And if you're obese and start drinking a ton of Coke, OJ, and whole milk, you're gonna get fatter. Even on 3+ grains of NDT. Ask me how I know. :)

Thank goodness for Haidut and other forum members for sharing their experiences and ideas with weight loss in a Ray Peat template. Otherwise I'd be screwed.

 

[managing]

In regard to cilantro (and other considerations) would you distinguish between "beer belly" and "spare tire" fat? Spare tire, I assume, doesn't involve liver inflammation, whereas beer belly does.

Maybe I should have tagged @natedawggh on this . . .

 

[natedawggh]

Maybe I should have tagged @natedawggh on this . . .

Yes, while the chronic swelling of the intestinal system in "beer belly" is not exactly fat deposition, the stimulation of fat generation is actually caused by the influx of water into fat cells, which stimulates the storage of fat, and thus both are actually a problem of proper cellular water management, and Iron influences both. With visceral adipose tissue the Iron has most likely been absorbed through high-iron sources in the diet, whereas beer and alcohol related inflammation, the iron would have increased merely from the tendency of alcohol to raise Iron absorption, and less influenced by the actual Iron content of the diet. Using cilantro for conditions like "beer belly" would be like scooping water out of a sinking ship, it's not going to do a lot until the use of alcohol is ceased. For visceral fat cilantro is going to have an immediate and consistent eliminating effect, even if some Iron is still in the diet (but care should be taken to reduce dietary Iron too), because the body still has some resistance to absorbing it, aided by the therapeutic effect of the herb. Silmyarin (milk thistle) can help a little too.

 

[Peater Piper]

Is the cilantro used with or away from meals?

 

[managing]

Yes, while the chronic swelling of the intestinal system in "beer belly" is not exactly fat deposition, the stimulation of fat generation is actually caused by the influx of water into fat cells, which stimulates the storage of fat, and thus both are actually a problem of proper cellular water management, and Iron influences both. With visceral adipose tissue the Iron has most likely been absorbed through high-iron sources in the diet, whereas beer and alcohol related inflammation, the iron would have increased merely from the tendency of alcohol to raise Iron absorption, and less influenced by the actual Iron content of the diet. Using cilantro for conditions like "beer belly" would be like scooping water out of a sinking ship, it's not going to do a lot until the use of alcohol is ceased. For visceral fat cilantro is going to have an immediate and consistent eliminating effect, even if some Iron is still in the diet (but care should be taken to reduce dietary Iron too), because the body still has some resistance to absorbing it, aided by the therapeutic effect of the herb. Silmyarin (milk thistle) can help a little too.

Thanks @natedawggh . Very helpful.

Is the cilantro used with or away from meals?

Nate has posted previously that he takes it away from meals. A tbs of dried herb if I recall correctly. Somwhere I saw somebody suggest following it by 30-60 min w/ Activated Charcoal. This seems like good advice, as the assumption is that the cilantro will stimulate the liver to expel iron (and other nasties). AC would bind those and see to it that they arrive in the porcelain waste receptacle. Carrot, bamboo, mushroom might have same effect.

 

[Peater Piper]

Thanks, managing!