MORE WEIGHT LOSS TALK

[kYgirl]

What is your diet looking like? Are you using lowfat/nonfat milk? What about vitamin D?

I am using 1 or 2% organic milk. In the morning I have coffee with collagen, nonfat milk powder and maple syrup. Breakfast is always 2% cottage cheese with about 1/3 cup of blueberries and honey. Lunch is normally 2 eggs cooked in a small amount of butter with an ounce of goat cheese and an apple. Then in the afternoon i have another coffee drink with one piece of 72% organic trader joes chocolate. Prior to dinner I have the carrot salad with 1 teaspoon MCT oil and a splash of balsalmic vinegar. Dinner is normally grilled hamburger, fish or chicken with broccoli or green beans and/or a pear. I usually have another coffee drink in the evenings (I drink decaf because regular coffee gives me terrible body odor). At any time during the day if I am just starving, I may also have some mozzarella cheese with cranberry jelly or I'll have a glass of milk. I must say I am so hungry all the time! Thanks R&R for your help! You seem to be one of the few women who have had success losing weight RP style. For reference, I am around your age 54. I have always been basically thin or exactly where I should be even after having my three kids in my 20's, I lost every pound immediately after. It's just not happening anymore and I refuse to give in to the age/menopause excuse. I know plenty of women in their 50's 60's and beyond that have remained thin.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I am using 1 or 2% organic milk. In the morning I have coffee with collagen, nonfat milk powder and maple syrup. Breakfast is always 2% cottage cheese with about 1/3 cup of blueberries and honey. Lunch is normally 2 eggs cooked in a small amount of butter with an ounce of goat cheese and an apple. Then in the afternoon i have another coffee drink with one piece of 72% organic trader joes chocolate. Prior to dinner I have the carrot salad with 1 teaspoon MCT oil and a splash of balsalmic vinegar. Dinner is normally grilled hamburger, fish or chicken with broccoli or green beans and/or a pear. I usually have another coffee drink in the evenings (I drink decaf because regular coffee gives me terrible body odor). At any time during the day if I am just starving, I may also have some mozzarella cheese with cranberry jelly or I'll have a glass of milk. I must say I am so hungry all the time! Thanks R&R for your help! You seem to be one of the few women who have had success losing weight RP style. For reference, I am around your age 54. I have always been basically thin or exactly where I should be even after having my three kids in my 20's, I lost every pound immediately after. It's just not happening anymore and I refuse to give in to the age/menopause excuse. I know plenty of women in their 50's 60's and beyond that have remained thin.

Gotcha! When I first started this weight loss thread it was to show large amounts of sugar sources are helpful and not the cause of weight gain. Like Ray Peat has said excess sugar WITH FATS is where weight gain can happen. My weight came off quickly dropping my meat and upping my gelatin and milk intake. I stumbled upon this key 3 months ago, and tank posted a study on a"methionine deficient diet" having profound weight loss effects.

Anyways, I drink 3 coffees the first three to four hours of the day, each with 1 scoop collagen and a half cup of 2% or nonfat milk and add in sugar or maple syrup. The rest of the day I keep my fat intake low if I want to lose weight, and add back in meats or whole milk if I want to gain a little. An egg or two (spread out or it would be too much fat in one sitying), pineapple juice or fresh orange juice (usually at night), your mozzarella or cheddar, lots of milk throughout the day, honey and sometimes seafood or liver are my go-to's when losing weight. Don't even think about food till you have gotten those 3 coffees in, which is 35 grams of protein in itself! Have small meals after that and glasses of nonfat or 2% milk every hour or two. Don't let yourself be hungry, drink that nonfat or lowfat milk or eat a spoonful of honey when you do get hungry. Doing this isn't forever, it is just to get into that fat burning mode. If you must have the meat, have your dinner meal for late lunch instead of dinner. Protein at night is not recommended by Ray Peat and is terrible for sleep. Ray has said calcium and proteins are best to have during the day and fats and magnesium are most beneficial at night. Have your "well cooked" veggies, mozzarella and fruit at night. I love tea at night with a scoop of marmalade. Ditch that MCT oil too. I heard Ray say it causes allergies (I linked his e-mail to me, referencing it, below). He says butter or ghee is preferred anyway. I never had luck losing weight with coconut oil. I think your also raw starchy fruit, such as your apple and pear, may be stalling you too. He says starchy fruit should be cooked well. About once a week I peel and fresh press two apples and some peeled purple rainbow carrots. I will take a pic of all the fiber and starch that comes out of that juice. You get the nutrition without all the stuff that slows your digestion down. You can do this kYgirl!

 

[kYgirl]

Gotcha! When I first started this weight loss thread it was to show large amounts of sugar sources are helpful and not the cause of weight gain. Like Ray Peat has said excess sugar WITH FATS is where weight gain can happen. My weight came off quickly dropping my meat and upping my gelatin and milk intake. I stumbled upon this key 3 months ago, and tank posted a study on a"methionine deficient diet" having profound weight loss effects.

Anyways, I drink 3 coffees the first three to four hours of the day, each with 1 scoop collagen and a half cup of 2% or nonfat milk and add in sugar or maple syrup. The rest of the day I keep my fat intake low if I want to lose weight, and add back in meats or whole milk if I want to gain a little. An egg or two (spread out or it would be too much fat in one sitying), pineapple juice or fresh orange juice (usually at night), your mozzarella or cheddar, lots of milk throughout the day, honey and sometimes seafood or liver are my go-to's when losing weight. Don't even think about food till you have gotten those 3 coffees in, which is 35 grams of protein in itself! Have small meals after that and glasses of nonfat or 2% milk every hour or two. Don't let yourself be hungry, drink that nonfat or lowfat milk or eat a spoonful of honey when you do get hungry. Doing this isn't forever, it is just to get into that fat burning mode. If you must have the meat, have your dinner meal for late lunch instead of dinner. Protein at night is not recommended by Ray Peat and is terrible for sleep. Ray has said calcium and proteins are best to have during the day and fats and magnesium are most beneficial at night. Have your "well cooked" veggies, mozzarella and fruit at night. I love tea at night with a scoop of marmalade. Ditch that MCT oil too. I heard Ray say it causes allergies (I linked his e-mail to me, referencing it, below). He says butter or ghee is preferred anyway. I never had luck losing weight with coconut oil. I think your also raw starchy fruit, such as your apple and pear, may be stalling you too. He says starchy fruit should be cooked well. About once a week I peel and fresh press two apples and some peeled purple rainbow carrots. I will take a pic of all the fiber and starch that comes out of that juice. You get the nutrition without all the stuff that slows your digestion down. You can do this kYgirl!

Appreciate your help always! When you have your glasses of milk during the day, is that by itself? Or do you have honey or something else with it? I can drop the MCT oil, I just thought you were supposed to have the coconut oil with your carrot salad.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Appreciate your help always! When you have your glasses of milk during the day, is that by itself? Or do you have honey or something else with it? I can drop the MCT oil, I just thought you were supposed to have the coconut oil with your carrot salad.

I was having a spoonful of honey on the side, with my milk, but not lately. The milk already has natural sugars so it is balanced enough. I especially don't have the honey with whole milk.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

In this link tanksnowgod posted a study confirming why my weight came off faster dropping the meat and upping the gelatin.

Methionine Deficient Diet Induces Rapid Weight (Fat) Loss in Mice who Ate More, and Moved Less

This was an interesting short term study. The researchers basically took Methionine Restriction a step further, and fed Obese mice a diet completely free of Methionine. They noticed rapid weight loss, mostly fat, and apparently did it through increasing resting metabolic rate...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Appreciate your help always! When you have your glasses of milk during the day, is that by itself? Or do you have honey or something else with it? I can drop the MCT oil, I just thought you were supposed to have the coconut oil with your carrot salad.

You can use a half teaspoon of olive oil instead. I but this liquid coconut oil which is far more versatile than the hard stuff.

 

[kYgirl]

Thanks for all your help today!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thanks for all your help today!

I am always happy to help anytime and all the time. Besides, your questions are helping the lurkers :)

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"Vitamin D and calcium work closely with the thyroid." -Ray Peat

"Your thyroid can't work properly if you're low in vitamin D and calcium." -Ray Peat

Ray Peat Live, April 29, 2019

Ray Peat Live, April 29, 2019 by Patrick Timpone

player.fm

 

[vanessad]

“STARCH and GLUCOSE efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat. Eating “complex carbohydrates,” rather than sugars, is a reasonable way to promote obesity. Eating starch, by increasing insulin and lowering the blood sugar, stimulates the appetite, causing a person to eat more, so the effect on fat" -Ray Peat


I have asked this question many times, how does starch plus sugar not equal a cookie? How does anybody think that is not a combination for bad health and accumulated fat? I am not saying it isn't possible to lose weight eating cookies, but Ray Peat's science isn't about weight loss, it is about a healthy metabolism and slowing down the aging process, and everything that goes with it, and cookies are not going to accomplish that goal, as we can see everywhere we look!

There are many ways to lose weight as long as there is a deficiency somewhere, whether that be low fat, low protein, low carb or low calorie, but losing weight does not mean losing fat, and sugar can be a problem or it can be helpful depending on how you use it.


"People on a standard diet will typically burn 200 or 300 more calories per day when that amount of sugar is added to their diet; but if extra fat is added, too, some of the extra calories are likely to be deposited as fat. It's important to watch the signs of changing heat production as the diet changes." -Ray Peat


If you kept your fats low, let's say around 20 to 30 grams and add in "Coke freely" it is still a VERY lowfat diet that prompts you to burn your own body's fat. No matter how many calories you consume in sugar it is still a fat burning diet. A high fat diet will create fat, but again not sugar. You can lose weight eating just potatoes without added fats because it is a ZERO fat diet and your body converts that potato to sugar, so a potato in itself does not cause weight gain it is the added fats and the slowing of digestion that creates fat. I expect ancient cultures used their potatoes differently, more as a sugar source when fruit wasn't available and didn't pile on oils or butter.

The question now is why people don't lose weight with Ray Peat recommended foods? Say you have a burger on a bun and a Coke with it, that is a recipe for disaster! The bun is already the sugar source, so the Coke adds nothing except too much! The body also has to slow down to do a lot of work converting that bun/starch into a usuable sugar source before it can use it and then spend another 6 hours to break down the protein and fats, and then we dilute all those digestive juices with a Coke? More sugar at this point just equals more calories that can't be used right away so they get stored as fat. The key to weight loss in that scenerio is to make digestion easier, by eating having the burger without the bun, or fries, and leaving your body to focus on the meat, getting it broken down quickly, by having the Coke instead, or just have the burger with the bun, or better yet open faced! Weight management is about balancing, not piling things on top of each other and expecting our bodies to fight it out with good results. That all gets even harder for a body to do when age slows everything down even more. I find the phrase "Keep it simple stupid" to be wise words to live by nowadays. That means instead of the typical American plate looking like a protein source, two sides and a dessert, my strategy is the main course IS THE MEAL, no sides, but dessert stays, just a little later! The more complicated the meal the slower the digestion and more fat not burned or stored. If I want to have a side, like mashed potatoes and gravy, I make it THE MEAL. My other strategy, to keep the jiggles at bay, is to pair fats with non fats. The excess of too much fat in one sitting gets stored until it can be used.

Many people have interpreted Ray Peat's sugar recommendation as an invitation to snack on gummy bears and bowls of fat laden ice cream, and therein lies the problems. This isn't a have your cake and eat it TOO lifestyle, but rather enjoy a LITTLE dessert with your starch free dinner. Remember starch gets converted to sugar so more sugar isn't going to build muscle, and having abundant muscles IS NECESSARY for the body to burn fat. Starch is a baby pacifier, keeping the body busy for a long time, and not leaving enough room for the proteins needed to build those fat burning muscles.

There are endless possibilities of how to lose weight while anti-aging via Ray Peat! I would never again want to count calories, fast, cram down tons of meat low carbing, be vegan living on raw vegetables, or having the most cellulite I have ever had being a vegetarian or any of those other depriving diets that take the joy out of eating. I really don't know how it can get any better than this?

Wow~~ TY!! Please keep more this info coming! Much appreciated! Any suggestions for brain Fog & Gut improvements?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Wow~~ TY!! Please keep more this info coming! Much appreciated! Any suggestions for brain Fog & Gut improvements?

I think the thing that helped my gut the most is having more liquid meals than solid ones. It is so much easier on digestion and gives the digestive system a rest. Eating a good raw honey at night before bed is another good habit for gut health AND sleep. Raw honey has natural antibiotic properties, especially manuka honey. I think when your gut health improves your brain fog will clear. Ray Peat talks about the brain/gut connection in the video, I posted just before you posted in this thread, as well as other fascinating studies and stories that relate pefectly with this thread. Here is another quote you will appreciate :)


"Nutritional deficiency diseases probably wouldn't have been discovered if our diets hadn't been based on grains. The starches in grains aren't their only problem, but starch is uniquely suited to activate the formation of fat, and to stimulate appetite, especially an appetite for more carbohydrate, to restore the blood glucose that has been used up in making fat. Starch also has the ability to stimulate allergic responses, to plug small blood vessels and to accelerate aging (according to the work of G. Volkheimer, and others)." -Ray Peat

 

[vanessad]

I think the thing that helped my gut the most is having more liquid meals than solid ones. It is so much easier on digestion and gives the digestive system a rest. Eating a good raw honey at night before bed is another good habit for gut health AND sleep. Raw honey has natural antibiotic properties, especially manuka honey. I think when your gut health improves your brain fog will clear. Ray Peat talks about the brain/gut connection in the video, I posted just before you posted in this thread, as well as other fascinating studies and stories that relate pefectly with this thread. Here is another quote you will appreciate :)


"Nutritional deficiency diseases probably wouldn't have been discovered if our diets hadn't been based on grains. The starches in grains aren't their only problem, but starch is uniquely suited to activate the formation of fat, and to stimulate appetite, especially an appetite for more carbohydrate, to restore the blood glucose that has been used up in making fat. Starch also has the ability to stimulate allergic responses, to plug small blood vessels and to accelerate aging (according to the work of G. Volkheimer, and others)." -Ray Peat

So grateful you’re well versed in RP! I’m making an attempt- lots to learn! Ty for sharing your knowledge so kindly! You’re awesome! I’ll look for that video!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

So grateful you’re well versed in RP! I’m making an attempt- lots to learn! Ty for sharing your knowledge so kindly! You’re awesome! I’ll look for that video!

Thank you, your welcome and here you go

Ray Peat Live, April 29, 2019

Ray Peat Live, April 29, 2019 by Patrick Timpone

player.fm

 

[barbparadise]

In this link tanksnowgod posted a study confirming why my weight came off faster dropping the meat and upping the gelatin.

Methionine Deficient Diet Induces Rapid Weight (Fat) Loss in Mice who Ate More, and Moved Less

This was an interesting short term study. The researchers basically took Methionine Restriction a step further, and fed Obese mice a diet completely free of Methionine. They noticed rapid weight loss, mostly fat, and apparently did it through increasing resting metabolic rate...

raypeatforum.com

Do you use collagen hydrolysate (green) or gelatin (orange) in your coffee. I’ve tried both ways and prefer the collagen. I’ve upped my coffee and gelatin or collagen and only eat meat for dinner. I’ve gained 2 lbs. I do carry a high body fat so maybe it’s being replaced by muscle. I’m 5’4” 142 lbs 75 years old. I’m currently eating a smoothie for breakfast made with milk orange juice and collagen. Coffee with collagen before lunch, mozzarell stick or two with an orange for lunch, coffee with collagen before dinner.. coffees are made with milk. Muscle meat and artichoke hearts for dinner. Glass of milk with homemade jello before bed. Any suggestions?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Do you use collagen hydrolysate (green) or gelatin (orange) in your coffee. I’ve tried both ways and prefer the collagen. I’ve upped my coffee and gelatin or collagen and only eat meat for dinner. I’ve gained 2 lbs. I do carry a high body fat so maybe it’s being replaced by muscle. I’m 5’4” 142 lbs 75 years old. I’m currently eating a smoothie for breakfast made with milk orange juice and collagen. Coffee with collagen before lunch, mozzarell stick or two with an orange for lunch, coffee with collagen before dinner.. coffees are made with milk. Muscle meat and artichoke hearts for dinner. Glass of milk with homemade jello before bed. Any suggestions?

I do use the green can in my coffee. I don’t like the taste of the orange cannon much coffee. I do hope you are eating a bigger variety. 142 pounds can be voluminous if it is fat, but 142 pounds made of muscle should look very good. Keep eating low-fat and your body will swap your fat for muscle. I posted this for someone else yesterday of the foods I am eating….

“My diet mostly consists of nonfat and raw whole milk, cheese, gelatin lattes, homemade bone broths and soups made with them, sometimes a high butter croissant, some shellfish, liver, things baked with sprouted oats, sprouted brown rice and sprouted brown rice cereal, corn and soy free chicken wings and eggs, marmalade sweetened tea, homemade custard and ice cream, fresh squeezed and strained orange juice and “gatorade”, frozen fruit marinated juice like raspberry or strawberry, artichoke hearts, bamboo shoots, carrots, raw honeys and honeycomb, salsa and other hot sauces, zucchini, sweet onion and green onions, fresh apples peeled and fresh pressed with purple or white rainbow carrots, canned oysters in oyster stew, salted caramel maple syrup, Lakewood pineapple, Concord grape and cherry juices, fresh seasonal watermelon or store bought fresh pressed watermelon juice, fresh mango, liver, maybe twice a month grass fed beef or lamb, well cooked broccoli or it’s cooking water, masa tortillas or yeastless sourdough on rare occasions, jello, sometime lecithin free chocolate or homemade peanut butter with raspberry”

 

[barbparadise]

My diet mostly consists of nonfat and raw whole milk, cheese, gelatin lattes, homemade bone broths and soups made with them, sometimes a high butter croissant, some shellfish, liver, things baked with sprouted oats, sprouted brown rice and sprouted brown rice cereal, corn and soy free chicken wings and eggs, marmalade sweetened tea, homemade custard and ice cream, fresh squeezed and strained orange juice and “gatorade”, frozen fruit marinated juice like raspberry or strawberry, artichoke hearts, bamboo shoots, carrots, raw honeys and honeycomb, salsa and other hot sauces, zucchini, sweet onion and green onions, fresh apples peeled and fresh pressed with purple or white rainbow carrots, canned oysters in oyster stew, salted caramel maple syrup, Lakewood pineapple, Concord grape and cherry juices, fresh seasonal watermelon or store bought fresh pressed watermelon juice, fresh mango, liver, maybe twice a month grass fed beef or lamb, well cooked broccoli or it’s cooking water, masa tortillas or yeastless sourdough on rare occasions, jello, sometime lecithin free chocolate or homemade peanut butter with raspberry”

Thanks for the reply. I am not eating much variety but I will make an effort to do so. It just makes it so simple to eat the same things. I do have different proteins at my dinner meal but I may do like you suggested a couple of posts back and eat it late afternoon.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thanks for the reply. I am not eating much variety but I will make an effort to do so. It just makes it so simple to eat the same things. I do have different proteins at my dinner meal but I may do like you suggested a couple of posts back and eat it late afternoon.

That is a really good idea. I know what you mean though about the same things being easy, I tend to get hooked on something and go on and on with it for a while, just because it is so yummy! This week I am trying to have more homemade bone broths in place of the powdered collagen. One way or another I am making sure I get gelatin in everyday. It surely makes a difference :)

 

[Jennifer]

@Rinse & rePeat, may I ask, have you noticed a difference between simple sugars on fat loss? Or have you noticed fat loss from coffee/caffeine alone? I've lost inches all over since I started drinking black tea daily 2 1/2 months ago, but I also replaced a good portion of my fruit calories with white sugar (1 cup daily) and I'm trying to figure out which is responsible and the mechanism involved. Do you know if caffeine acts like thyroid hormone or helps liver function so it's more efficient at converting T4 to T3?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

@Rinse & rePeat, may I ask, have you noticed a difference between simple sugars on fat loss? Or have you noticed fat loss from coffee/caffeine alone? I've lost inches all over since I started drinking black tea daily 2 1/2 months ago, but I also replaced a good portion of my fruit calories with white sugar (1 cup daily) and I'm trying to figure out which is responsible and the mechanism involved. Do you know if caffeine acts like thyroid hormone or helps liver function so it's more efficient at converting T4 to T3?

I did well eating my honey, but I feel that the white sugar, coffee and gelatin combo sped up the fat loss process. One because they are nonfat or low-fat and each coffee has 11 grams of protein, which takes the place of a fatty meal. So I would say yes that coffee helps liver function, just from my couple of profound experiences with it. My first was when I first started drinking it in my thirties after giving birth to my second son. With my first son I worked my butt off in the gym for a year and never got back down to my pre pregnancy weight, but after my second son I started drinking coffee, for the first time in my life, and all of my pregnancy weight came off plus the fat I couldn’t get rid off with my first pregnancy, four years earlier. I did put in those crappy flavored creamers back then at first, and now looking back, when coffee stopped working for me is when I took the sugar out and only use the powdered unsweetened creamer.

“Coffee drinkers have a lower incidence of thyroid disease, including cancer, thannon-drinkers.” -Ray Peat


“Caffeine has remarkable parallels to thyroid and progesterone, and the use of coffee or tea can help to maintain their production, or compensate for their deficiency. Women spontaneously drink more coffee premenstrually, and since caffeine is known to increase the concentration of progesterone in the blood and in the brain.” -Ray Peat

 

[Jennifer]

Thank you for sharing your experience and Ray’s quotes, @Rinse & rePeat. That’s exactly what I was looking for. I knew caffeine helped with progesterone production, but wasn’t sure if I was remembering correctly that it also acted like thyroid hormone so I’m really happy you included those quotes. I started drinking the black tea when my mum died and found it helped lift my mood and prevented the night terrors related to the moment of her passing so seeing those quotes, I’m glad I didn’t succumb to the fear of its fluoride content having potential negative effects on my thyroid and bones. I listened to an Herb Doctor interview with Ray where Sarah was telling him about a client she had who needed a cup of sugar daily to recover from surgery and sleep through the night and since I was waking multiple times at night upset about my mum and ran out of honey and needed something to sweeten my tea, I figured I would give sugar a shot and was pleasantly surprised to discover it no longer caused bloating and I finally slept through the night. It’s also improved my digestion and my skin is loving it—it’s been keeping it really soft and hydrated through the dry winter months. Bonus is, unlike fruit, it’s consistently sweet and cheap. Anyhow, thanks again!