MORE WEIGHT LOSS TALK

OP
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“When we eat more protein or carbohydrate than we need, the excess can be converted to fats, to be stored (as triglycerides), but even on a maintenance diet we synthesize some fats that are essential parts of all of our cells, including a great variety of phospholipids.” -Ray Peat
 
OP
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UPDATE:

I have upped my milk and cut out almost all meat and feel better than ever! This past couple of weeks my diet consists of….

a lot more milk. I mixing half and half, nonfat with whole milk, and am having 5 to 6 glasses a day, custard daily, lots of marmalade, gelatin in my tea at night, iced and hot coffee with milk and sugar in the hot coffee and white whipped honey in the iced, Braunschweiger three times a week for my 3 ounces of liver a week, shrimp or crab twice a week, pastured wings once a week with the PUFA boiled out and then broiled and I have it with milk and marmalade, my (no egg or cream) ice cream a couple of times a week, tangelos or mandarins or a boiled egg with wasabi and fresh squeezed local organic orange juice (sometimes I mix it with half water, some sugar and salt to make a Gatorade. I had thin slices of grass fed cheddar used like “chips” to scoop up fresh chunky puréed salsa last night, I make a sprouted oat apple blueberry crisp once every week or so and piece is on it for a couple of days, and today I had a small slice of grass fed roasted corned beef with a ton of lingonberry jam, basically starch free eating.

I am walking to town tonight, two miles, for dinner at a Thai place and it looks almost impossible to eat healthy there, with everything fried, with starches or with conventional PUFA laden meats and farmed seafood ughh…

Edit: I am also loving a bowl of sprouted brown rice cereal with milk a couple times a week :)
 

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Philomath

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“STARCH and GLUCOSE efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat. Eating “complex carbohydrates,” rather than sugars, is a reasonable way to promote obesity. Eating starch, by increasing insulin and lowering the blood sugar, stimulates the appetite, causing a person to eat more, so the effect on fat" -Ray Peat


I have asked this question many times, how does starch plus sugar not equal a cookie? How does anybody think that is not a combination for bad health and accumulated fat? I am not saying it isn't possible to lose weight eating cookies, but Ray Peat's science isn't about weight loss, it is about a healthy metabolism and slowing down the aging process, and everything that goes with it, and cookies are not going to accomplish that goal, as we can see everywhere we look!

There are many ways to lose weight as long as there is a deficiency somewhere, whether that be low fat, low protein, low carb or low calorie, but losing weight does not mean losing fat, and sugar can be a problem or it can be helpful depending on how you use it.


"People on a standard diet will typically burn 200 or 300 more calories per day when that amount of sugar is added to their diet; but if extra fat is added, too, some of the extra calories are likely to be deposited as fat. It's important to watch the signs of changing heat production as the diet changes." -Ray Peat


If you kept your fats low, let's say around 20 to 30 grams and add in "Coke freely" it is still a VERY lowfat diet that prompts you to burn your own body's fat. No matter how many calories you consume in sugar it is still a fat burning diet. A high fat diet will create fat, but again not sugar. You can lose weight eating just potatoes without added fats because it is a ZERO fat diet and your body converts that potato to sugar, so a potato in itself does not cause weight gain it is the added fats and the slowing of digestion that creates fat. I expect ancient cultures used their potatoes differently, more as a sugar source when fruit wasn't available and didn't pile on oils or butter.

The question now is why people don't lose weight with Ray Peat recommended foods? Say you have a burger on a bun and a Coke with it, that is a recipe for disaster! The bun is already the sugar source, so the Coke adds nothing except too much! The body also has to slow down to do a lot of work converting that bun/starch into a usuable sugar source before it can use it and then spend another 6 hours to break down the protein and fats, and then we dilute all those digestive juices with a Coke? More sugar at this point just equals more calories that can't be used right away so they get stored as fat. The key to weight loss in that scenerio is to make digestion easier, by eating having the burger without the bun, or fries, and leaving your body to focus on the meat, getting it broken down quickly, by having the Coke instead, or just have the burger with the bun, or better yet open faced! Weight management is about balancing, not piling things on top of each other and expecting our bodies to fight it out with good results. That all gets even harder for a body to do when age slows everything down even more. I find the phrase "Keep it simple stupid" to be wise words to live by nowadays. That means instead of the typical American plate looking like a protein source, two sides and a dessert, my strategy is the main course IS THE MEAL, no sides, but dessert stays, just a little later! The more complicated the meal the slower the digestion and more fat not burned or stored. If I want to have a side, like mashed potatoes and gravy, I make it THE MEAL. My other strategy, to keep the jiggles at bay, is to pair fats with non fats. The excess of too much fat in one sitting gets stored until it can be used.

Many people have interpreted Ray Peat's sugar recommendation as an invitation to snack on gummy bears and bowls of fat laden ice cream, and therein lies the problems. This isn't a have your cake and eat it TOO lifestyle, but rather enjoy a LITTLE dessert with your starch free dinner. Remember starch gets converted to sugar so more sugar isn't going to build muscle, and having abundant muscles IS NECESSARY for the body to burn fat. Starch is a baby pacifier, keeping the body busy for a long time, and not leaving enough room for the proteins needed to build those fat burning muscles.

There are endless possibilities of how to lose weight while anti-aging via Ray Peat! I would never again want to count calories, fast, cram down tons of meat low carbing, be vegan living on raw vegetables, or having the most cellulite I have ever had being a vegetarian or any of those other depriving diets that take the joy out of eating. I really don't know how it can get any better than this?
Thank you for the practical explanation @Rinse & rePeat !
So during the process of finding someone to help with my gut situation, my doctor (an ND actually) prescribed a Genova test kit, but gave me her advice on how to reduce my inflammation…
Limit sugars to 40 grams a day - which should come from complex carbs ONLY. I tuned her out after that.
It’s crazy now how many people think sugar is evil and the reason for all ills
 
OP
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Thank you for the practical explanation @Rinse & rePeat !
So during the process of finding someone to help with my gut situation, my doctor (an ND actually) prescribed a Genova test kit, but gave me her advice on how to reduce my inflammation…
Limit sugars to 40 grams a day - which should come from complex carbs ONLY. I tuned her out after that.
It’s crazy now how many people think sugar is evil and the reason for all ills

I can see why sugar get demonized m, being void of nutrients, but is can water and air. Sugar needs to be thought of as a necessity and not from a nutrient perspective. Compex carbohydrates are turned into sugar too, but has your body has to do a lot of work to convert it into sugar for energy and then you gotta add the extra fats to get it successful in and out of the body in a timely manner. Complex carbs weigh me down and slow me down. No wonder, if one eats them, Ray Peat recommends doing so at night. Night night time for me after a bowl of pasta or mashed potatoes.
 
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“Counting calories achieves approximately the same thing as measuring oxygen consumption, and is something that will allow people to evaluate the various thyroid tests they may be given by their doctor. Although food intake and metabolic rate vary from day to day, an approximate calorie count for several days can often make it clear that a diagnosis of hyperthyroidism is mistaken. If a person is eating only about 1800 calories per day, and has a steady and normal body weight, any “hyperthyroidism” is strictly metaphysical, or as they say, “clinical.” -Ray Peat
 
OP
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“Stereotypes are important. When a very thin person with high blood pressure visits a doctor, hypothyroidism isn't likely to be considered; even high TSH and very low T4 and T3 are likely to be ignored, because of the stereotypes. (And if those tests were in the healthy range, the person would be at risk for the “hyperthyroid” diagnosis.) But remembering some of the common adaptive reactions to a thyroid deficiency, the catabolic effects of high cortisol and the circulatory disturbance caused by high adrenaline should lead to doing some of the appropriate tests, instead of treating the person's hypertension and “under nourished” condition. “ -Ray Peat
 

dlind70

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@Rinse & rePeat. Do you think coffee as whole beverage contributes to weight loss or weight management?
Coffee is more than caffeine it has vitamin e selenium antioxidant some magnesium grown at high altitude some coffees are very strong in their oils if you use a French press but if you're healthy you can probably deal with it.
 
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OP
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Rinse. Do you think coffee as whole beverage contributes to weight loss or weight managment?
Coffee is more than caffeine it has vitamin e selenium antioxidant some magnesium grown at high altitude some coffees are very strong in their oils if you use a French press but if you're healthy you can probably deal with it.
I know when I first started drinking coffee, in my early 30’s, my pregnancy weight gain came right off. I put cream and sugar in it during that time, but when I cut out the sugar the weight came back on, so the sugar played some big roll in the weight loss. Years and years when I still drank coffee without sugar the weight didn’t come off because of coffee. I would say the milk and sugar might play more of a roll in my recent weight loss success, and fat restriction, than the coffee. Before I drank coffee I was always extremely thin and never drank coffee, but I did drink lots of milk. I did have a period in my teens when I got overweight when I worked for a vegetarian restaurant and was also hooked on Pop Tarts. Oh man was I addicted to those!
 
OP
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UPDATE:

I am down a quarter pound today from yesterday, eating lots of my homemade (egg & cream free) ice cream. I ate 3 servings yesterday, originally because I ran out of milk, but I couldn’t stop, after discovering how good it is with fresh orange zest! I ate each cup separately throughout the day, with the zest of be orange each, and put some perfectly ripe blueberries on top of the last cup, which I had at bedtime. I had two cups of hot coffee first thing in the morning yesterday with nonfat milk and sugar, and another cup with white whipped honey and a tablespoon of gelatin, iced, to go with my braunscschweiger, which I fried in coconut oil and a hint of butter, to keep it from sticking to the pan. I topped my liver source with Chinese-5 spice and coconut aminos. Before the braunschweiger I had one egg, fried in coconut oil and a hint of butter and coconut oil and topped it with Chinese-spice and coconut aminos too, and had it with a mandarin orange, cut into pieces and sprinkled with sugar. I also had a Japanese “veggie roll” for early supper, which had cooked asparagus, avocado, radish sprouts and pickle burdock root aka “Gobo”, which I topped with real wasabi and sweet picked ginger. Before my last bowl of ice cream I had quite a few marinated artichoke hearts in olive oil. I lazed around all day and played a little badminton last night, and was surprised to be down on the scale from so much ice cream, sugar and laziness. I did get a little sunshine before noon yesterday and took a milk thistle in the middle of the night to get back to sleep. In total I had about a little more than a cup of nonfat milk with my coffee yesterday.

I started today off with two small cups of brewed coffee with my melted ice cream, as a creamer, since I am still out of milk. I am about to have a bowl of my raw milk ice cream again with orange peel and those super sweet blueberries on top, as soon as I finish soaking in my daily sunshine :)
 

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OP
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UPDATE:

I had a half serving of a low iron brewer’s yeast yesterday, with coffee in the afternoon, and was surprised how it really balanced my blood sugar! I wasn’t hungry for hours. I am down another quarter pound today.

“In a study of 54 obese men and women, yeast hydrolysate reduced body weight and stomach fat without any negative effects on lean body mass.

These results coincide with data from previous animal and human studies showing decreased body weight and body fat after yeast hydrolysate supplementation.

Yeast hydrolysate is a nutritional supplement with processed and concentrated S. cerevisiae, and brewer’s yeast might not have the same effects on weight loss.

Yeast (from S.cerevisiae) reduces the hunger hormone ghrelin in mice, which may partly explain the loss in body weight.

It also decreases fat production by reducing the activity of liver enzymes required for making fatty acids.

In addition, nicotinamide riboside (found in brewer’s yeast) increases enzymes involved in fat burning (sirtuins) and energy usage, thereby increasing weight loss.”


 

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OP
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“Feeding animals a normal diet with the addition of Coca-Cola, or with a similar amount of sucrose, has been found to let them increase their calorie intake by 50% without increasing their weight gain (Bukowiecki, et al., 1983). Although plain sucrose can alleviate the metabolic suppression of an average diet, the effect of sugars in the diet is much more likely to be healthful in the long run when they are associated with an abundance of minerals, as in milk and fruit, which provide potassium and calcium and other protective nutrients.

Avoiding the starches such as cereals and beans, and using fruits as a major part of the diet helps to minimize the effects of the polyunsaturated fats.” -Ray Peat
 
OP
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“Liver is another rich source of the B vitamins as well as the oily vitamins, but it can suppress thyroid function, so usually one meal a week is enough.“ -Ray Peat
 

kYgirl

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“Feeding animals a normal diet with the addition of Coca-Cola, or with a similar amount of sucrose, has been found to let them increase their calorie intake by 50% without increasing their weight gain (Bukowiecki, et al., 1983). Although plain sucrose can alleviate the metabolic suppression of an average diet, the effect of sugars in the diet is much more likely to be healthful in the long run when they are associated with an abundance of minerals, as in milk and fruit, which provide potassium and calcium and other protective nutrients.

Avoiding the starches such as cereals and beans, and using fruits as a major part of the diet helps to minimize the effects of the polyunsaturated fats.” -Ray Peat
This is interesting! Back in my 20's (which was in the 1990's) I drank one Big Red a day and ate practically nothing but carbs being as low fat as possible (cereal, popcorn, cookies, etc). I was thin even giving birth to three kids that decade, I always lost every pound of the weight gain. I wonder back then though if they were using real sugar and not HFCS?
 
OP
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This is interesting! Back in my 20's (which was in the 1990's) I drank one Big Red a day and ate practically nothing but carbs being as low fat as possible (cereal, popcorn, cookies, etc). I was thin even giving birth to three kids that decade, I always lost every pound of the weight gain. I wonder back then though if they were using real sugar and not HFCS?
[/QUOTE}

Here is what I found…..

“In 1984, a bomb went off in the food industry that forever changed the course of consumption: Coca Cola and Pepsi stopped using sugar in soft drinks, replacing it with high fructose corn syrup.”
 
OP
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“The metabolic rate (eating more without gaining extra weight) and ability to regulate body temperature are increased by early tryptophan deprivation. (Ashley and Curzon, 1981; Segall and Timiras, 1975.) The ability to oxidize sugar is impaired by serotonin, and several drugs with antiserotonin actions are being used to treat diabetes and its complications, such as hypertension, obesity, and foot ulcers.” Ray Peat
 

nigma

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UPDATE:

I had a half serving of a low iron brewer’s yeast yesterday, with coffee in the afternoon, and was surprised how it really balanced my blood sugar! I wasn’t hungry for hours. I am down another quarter pound today.

“In a study of 54 obese men and women, yeast hydrolysate reduced body weight and stomach fat without any negative effects on lean body mass.

These results coincide with data from previous animal and human studies showing decreased body weight and body fat after yeast hydrolysate supplementation.

Yeast hydrolysate is a nutritional supplement with processed and concentrated S. cerevisiae, and brewer’s yeast might not have the same effects on weight loss.

Yeast (from S.cerevisiae) reduces the hunger hormone ghrelin in mice, which may partly explain the loss in body weight.

It also decreases fat production by reducing the activity of liver enzymes required for making fatty acids.

In addition, nicotinamide riboside (found in brewer’s yeast) increases enzymes involved in fat burning (sirtuins) and energy usage, thereby increasing weight loss.”


It is very high in phosphorus though right?
 
OP
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It is very high in phosphorus though right?
Like milk, meat and grains, yes. Having phosphorus with calcium takes care of that problem though. I had my brewer’s yeast, those couple of times, with some milk, with coffee and sugar in it.
 

nigma

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In this link tanksnowgod posted a study confirming why my weight came off faster dropping the meat and upping the gelatin.


gelatin = 0.7% methionine
milk = 2.7% methionine
beef = 2.7% methionine
lamb = 2.7% methionine
chicken /wout skin = 2.9% methionine
chicken /w skin = 1.8% methionine
fish = 2.8% methionine

cheddar cheese = 2.2% methionine
swiss cheese = 3.0% methionine
parmesan cheese = 2.8% methionine
 
OP
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These chocolates are just what every “Peater” has been looking for! Sorry, but I ate the blue one :)


 

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