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Minocycline Antibiotic Log And Constipation Woes
- Thread starter charlie
- Start date
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Another weird wrinkle that might come into play,
just because things aren't already complicated enough!:
Seems like some bad stuff can happen, temporarily,
as the system--thyroid mainly--start to try to get cranked up.
For instance, Peat discussed in an interview
how once he fell asleep under some red light sources.
Afterwards, he quickly developed a bad case of acne.
He said, after thinking about it,
he knew that it was the increased need for vitamin A
brought on by the improved (from the red light) metabolism.
I think that's what he said,
if I'm recalling correctly.
Generally, I think I've heard him say
that as the metabolism gets stronger
so too does the need for adequate nutrition.
The vitamin A was just one example.
But the same would be the case, I'd think,
with--for instance--protein and carbs.
So, as you add thyroid sups into your diet, Charlie,
I'd be vigilant about meeting certain nutritional thresholds.
(Yes...I know there's no such thing as a Peat diet, and therefore no thresholds or generalizations,
but go ahead and try to meet them anyhow!
)
Like, be sure to eat your liver, especially for the A.
And eggs.
Peat seems to recommend eggs strongly to those struggling to get the metabolism cranked.
He notes the probably significant PUFA presence,
but says that filling nutritional deficits trumps perfect PUFA-elimination at first.
Another weird wrinkle that might come into play,
just because things aren't already complicated enough!:
Seems like some bad stuff can happen, temporarily,
as the system--thyroid mainly--start to try to get cranked up.
For instance, Peat discussed in an interview
how once he fell asleep under some red light sources.
Afterwards, he quickly developed a bad case of acne.
He said, after thinking about it,
he knew that it was the increased need for vitamin A
brought on by the improved (from the red light) metabolism.
I think that's what he said,
if I'm recalling correctly.
Generally, I think I've heard him say
that as the metabolism gets stronger
so too does the need for adequate nutrition.
The vitamin A was just one example.
But the same would be the case, I'd think,
with--for instance--protein and carbs.
So, as you add thyroid sups into your diet, Charlie,
I'd be vigilant about meeting certain nutritional thresholds.
(Yes...I know there's no such thing as a Peat diet, and therefore no thresholds or generalizations,
but go ahead and try to meet them anyhow!
)Like, be sure to eat your liver, especially for the A.
And eggs.
Peat seems to recommend eggs strongly to those struggling to get the metabolism cranked.
He notes the probably significant PUFA presence,
but says that filling nutritional deficits trumps perfect PUFA-elimination at first.
kettlebell
Member
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Really sorry to hear this Charlie, That really sucks!
Have these symptoms progressed since being on the antibiotics? Have you looked into some of the side effects/allergic reactions to such an antibiotic?
You probably have, but it might be worth keeping a food/supplement diary for a week or two to see exactly what and how much you put in your mouth every day and couple that with writing down worsening/improving symptoms of each and everything that's ailing you. You would be surprised at how quickly you can scribble things down without it interrupting your day to day activities.
I am certain that after a week or two you would see some patterns emerging and you will have some ideas on how to change things to tackle the issues. If there is any current guesswork with certain things it will soon give you hard data moving you into an measurable evidence based approach.
I do it from time to time whilst tweaking and it works a treat. Last time I measured temps several times a day, foods, eating times, quantities, pulse, mood (Out of 10), symptoms (Clear/fuzzy head)etc.
Hope some of that helps!
I really hope you feel better soon Charlie!
Charlie said:Feel like I am falling apart over here.An old foot injury that gave me a huge problem a few years ago, is starting to hurt again and I dont think I did anything physically to re-injure it. Also, I have this skin condition on my face, that turns the skin real red, it flakes, and burns a little, its gotten really bad, and spread down to my chest, the cream that usually works to slow it down isnt working, so I am just going to not use the cream and let it ride. My ankles and joints are sore. Completely constipated. I am sure I am missing something else thats wrong but just cant think of it right now. Uggggh. I am in a serious inflammation overload I think. It seems, and I could be wrong, that the further I got away from supplementing thyroid the worse I got. I really hope this thyroid supp will turn things around again.
Gonna finish up this last gallon of milk and then stop the milk and see if that helps.
Really sorry to hear this Charlie, That really sucks!
Have these symptoms progressed since being on the antibiotics? Have you looked into some of the side effects/allergic reactions to such an antibiotic?
You probably have, but it might be worth keeping a food/supplement diary for a week or two to see exactly what and how much you put in your mouth every day and couple that with writing down worsening/improving symptoms of each and everything that's ailing you. You would be surprised at how quickly you can scribble things down without it interrupting your day to day activities.
I am certain that after a week or two you would see some patterns emerging and you will have some ideas on how to change things to tackle the issues. If there is any current guesswork with certain things it will soon give you hard data moving you into an measurable evidence based approach.
I do it from time to time whilst tweaking and it works a treat. Last time I measured temps several times a day, foods, eating times, quantities, pulse, mood (Out of 10), symptoms (Clear/fuzzy head)etc.
Hope some of that helps!
I really hope you feel better soon Charlie!
J
j.
Guest
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
I wouldn't say the nutrients in eggs trump the PUFA elimination because there is little PUFA in eggs.
I wouldn't say the nutrients in eggs trump the PUFA elimination because there is little PUFA in eggs.
kettlebell
Member
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Thats spot on Narouz,
I listened to that interview yesterday. I think it was the one about milk (I think?!)
Thats spot on Narouz,
I listened to that interview yesterday. I think it was the one about milk (I think?!)
kettlebell
Member
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Depends on the eggs BUT yes, Free range woodland organic eggs will have very little PUFA and the nutrient density of eggs far outweighs the PUFA content. I believe you can easily mitigate the damage from such a small amount of PUFA.
j. said:
Depends on the eggs BUT yes, Free range woodland organic eggs will have very little PUFA and the nutrient density of eggs far outweighs the PUFA content. I believe you can easily mitigate the damage from such a small amount of PUFA.
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Well, j., this issue has been contended.
Seems like I came out thinking, yeah...there's a significant amount...but not a horror story.
But eggs do, after all, come from chickens (another significant PUFA risk, depending....)
But my point about eggs was not to state what I think.
It was, rather, just to point out what Peat thinks about eggs.
Now...I might have it confused.
Maybe it was something other than PUFA that Peat saw as a potential danger in eggs.
But...if I'm remembering right, it was PUFA.
And for that reason, I think, Peat said he had been cutting back "recently" (whatever point that was).
But as I also said,
Peat said the nutritional value of eggs trumped the PUFA drawback
in the short term.
I think his notion there is:
little progress can be made until the metabolism is improved.
PUFA elimination should be slow, anyhow, so put it on the backburner.
j. said:
Well, j., this issue has been contended.
Seems like I came out thinking, yeah...there's a significant amount...but not a horror story.
But eggs do, after all, come from chickens (another significant PUFA risk, depending....)
But my point about eggs was not to state what I think.
It was, rather, just to point out what Peat thinks about eggs.
Now...I might have it confused.
Maybe it was something other than PUFA that Peat saw as a potential danger in eggs.
But...if I'm remembering right, it was PUFA.
And for that reason, I think, Peat said he had been cutting back "recently" (whatever point that was).
But as I also said,
Peat said the nutritional value of eggs trumped the PUFA drawback
in the short term.
I think his notion there is:
little progress can be made until the metabolism is improved.
PUFA elimination should be slow, anyhow, so put it on the backburner.
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Here is a mash-up of Peat on Eggs (and other stuff).
This first quote is, I think, what I had in my mind earlier in the thread.
It would seem to indicate to me that Peat is indeed not quite as blithe
about eggs as some here are.
And his vigilance extends to other PUFA fat sources--
"beef, oysters, etc."
Interesting too that this has caused a significant shift
in his thoughts about general ratios of foods:
sugars intake up, PUFA fat sources down.
"Our foods usually contain enough PUFA, unavoidably, to make fats matter to some extent. After about twenty years of carefully avoiding them, I'm still getting about 2% of my fat as PUFA (beef, oysters, eggs, etc.). That's why I'm making an effort to increase my sugar intake, to displace some fat."--Peat, @DRoddy
"For a while, the vitamin A is very important, and the PUFA isn't crucial in the short term, so 2 or 3 eggs would be o.k., though in the longer run it's good to eat liver about twice a month, limiting the daily eggs to one or two."--Peat, @DR
"Eating protein by itself can cause a big surge of cortisol. Preceding the protein with some carbohydrate makes the protein go farther, otherwise under the influence of cortisol a lot of protein is used just for energy. Your diet might below in vitamin A, so it would be better to have eggs for breakfast,preceded with a generous amount of orange juice."--Peat, @DR
Here is a mash-up of Peat on Eggs (and other stuff).
This first quote is, I think, what I had in my mind earlier in the thread.
It would seem to indicate to me that Peat is indeed not quite as blithe
about eggs as some here are.
And his vigilance extends to other PUFA fat sources--
"beef, oysters, etc."
Interesting too that this has caused a significant shift
in his thoughts about general ratios of foods:
sugars intake up, PUFA fat sources down.
"Our foods usually contain enough PUFA, unavoidably, to make fats matter to some extent. After about twenty years of carefully avoiding them, I'm still getting about 2% of my fat as PUFA (beef, oysters, eggs, etc.). That's why I'm making an effort to increase my sugar intake, to displace some fat."--Peat, @DRoddy
"For a while, the vitamin A is very important, and the PUFA isn't crucial in the short term, so 2 or 3 eggs would be o.k., though in the longer run it's good to eat liver about twice a month, limiting the daily eggs to one or two."--Peat, @DR
"Eating protein by itself can cause a big surge of cortisol. Preceding the protein with some carbohydrate makes the protein go farther, otherwise under the influence of cortisol a lot of protein is used just for energy. Your diet might below in vitamin A, so it would be better to have eggs for breakfast,preceded with a generous amount of orange juice."--Peat, @DR
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Addendum: Eggs
"There can be a great difference between eggs from chickens that really have adequate pasture, and the standard ones, but the labels aren't likely to contain enough information. "Organic-free range" chickens in the US are usually fed soy and corn in a crowded outdoor pen. In the US I seldom eat more than one large egg per day, in Mexico where I know where the chickens live and what they eat, I eat more of them."--Ray Peat @DannyR
Addendum: Eggs
"There can be a great difference between eggs from chickens that really have adequate pasture, and the standard ones, but the labels aren't likely to contain enough information. "Organic-free range" chickens in the US are usually fed soy and corn in a crowded outdoor pen. In the US I seldom eat more than one large egg per day, in Mexico where I know where the chickens live and what they eat, I eat more of them."--Ray Peat @DannyR
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Charlie, some interesting Peat takes on constipation, Vit. A, thyroid, liver:
"Cream, butter, eggs, and liver are good sources of vitamin A. When people supplement thyroid and eat liver once or twice a week, their acne and dandruff (and many other problems) usually clear up very quickly. It was acne and dandruff that led me into studying the steroids and thyroid, and in the process I found that they were related to constipation and food sensitivity."
Charlie, some interesting Peat takes on constipation, Vit. A, thyroid, liver:
"Cream, butter, eggs, and liver are good sources of vitamin A. When people supplement thyroid and eat liver once or twice a week, their acne and dandruff (and many other problems) usually clear up very quickly. It was acne and dandruff that led me into studying the steroids and thyroid, and in the process I found that they were related to constipation and food sensitivity."
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
More along the same lines...
"I found that I had an extremely high vitamin A requirement, increased by stress or bright light, and that it related to thyroid function. Usually, thyroid and vitamin A are the supplements that stop acne."-Peat @ DR
"I avoid carotene, because it blocks thyroid and steroid production, and very large, excessive, amounts of vitamin A, retinol, can do the same. I use halibut liver oil-derived vitamin A, or retinyl palmitate."-Peat @DR
More along the same lines...
"I found that I had an extremely high vitamin A requirement, increased by stress or bright light, and that it related to thyroid function. Usually, thyroid and vitamin A are the supplements that stop acne."-Peat @ DR
"I avoid carotene, because it blocks thyroid and steroid production, and very large, excessive, amounts of vitamin A, retinol, can do the same. I use halibut liver oil-derived vitamin A, or retinyl palmitate."-Peat @DR
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Anyone know anything about the oxidised cholesterol in scrambles? Ive heard egg powder, with its oxidised cholesterol, is how they induce heart disease in experimental animals. I dont believe everything i hear though...
Anyone know anything about the oxidised cholesterol in scrambles? Ive heard egg powder, with its oxidised cholesterol, is how they induce heart disease in experimental animals. I dont believe everything i hear though...
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Yes, more vitamin A I agree. I was recently talking to clint and he said he gets 4 egg yolks in a day. So yesterday, I ate 4 eggs yolks. I will probably do at least 3 egg yolks a day for a while. Liver, well, I dunno.
Kettlebell, man I so dont want to log my food but it might be a good idea. If I dont improve in a week or two I might consider it. Thank you though for the suggestion as its a really good one. I just dont want the stress of logging. I know, I should stop being a wuss. I definitely think the antibiotic kicked my arse ten different ways. However, I think maybe the tide might be turning so we shall see. Thank you for the well wishes!
Dang narouz, you are coming which such good stuff my head it going to explode! Damn dain bramage!
Yes, that is very interesting and I have definitely increased the A starting yesterday, and today, my red skin problem is noticeably better. Imagine that. I am going to keep pumping in the A via eggs and supplement, maybe I will force myself to get some liver, uggh.
And, I also dramatically increased sugar. Oh, and I changed milk. So if it all works out I wont know what helped the change!!! 
narouz said:
Yes, more vitamin A I agree. I was recently talking to clint and he said he gets 4 egg yolks in a day. So yesterday, I ate 4 eggs yolks. I will probably do at least 3 egg yolks a day for a while. Liver, well, I dunno.
Kettlebell, man I so dont want to log my food but it might be a good idea. If I dont improve in a week or two I might consider it. Thank you though for the suggestion as its a really good one. I just dont want the stress of logging.
I know, I should stop being a wuss. I definitely think the antibiotic kicked my arse ten different ways. However, I think maybe the tide might be turning so we shall see. Thank you for the well wishes!narouz said:
Dang narouz, you are coming which such good stuff my head it going to explode! Damn dain bramage!
Yes, that is very interesting and I have definitely increased the A starting yesterday, and today, my red skin problem is noticeably better. Imagine that. I am going to keep pumping in the A via eggs and supplement, maybe I will force myself to get some liver, uggh.
And, I also dramatically increased sugar.
Oh, and I changed milk. So if it all works out I wont know what helped the change!!! Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Charlie, i know its carotene, and i know its starch, but i had some really well steamed potato mash yesterday and the effects were very positive. Greasy skin has cleared up, vision was good this morning too, despite waking up from dream sleep. Definitely getting vit A from it, rather than carotene problems. My gut was extremely flat both immediately after eating and this morning, so no bacteria have had at it clearly
Charlie, i know its carotene, and i know its starch, but i had some really well steamed potato mash yesterday and the effects were very positive. Greasy skin has cleared up, vision was good this morning too, despite waking up from dream sleep. Definitely getting vit A from it, rather than carotene problems. My gut was extremely flat both immediately after eating and this morning, so no bacteria have had at it clearly
kettlebell
Member
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
The great thing about egg yolks is they contain a good amount of B1, B2, B5, Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium and Zinc. Four normal sized egg yolks will give you approximately 9mg Zinc and 1.4mg Vitamin A. Add that to the A from milk, cheese and butter and you can easily be getting 2.5mg per day every day which is a good amount.
Consider that Ray recommends eating liver once "Every week or two" (Something I have heard Ray say in interviews and on Danny Roddys site(?)). Lets say you eat it once every two weeks. A 250gm serving has very roughly (Depending on the animal) 40mg vitamin A, which equates to 2.9mg per day over a two week period.
There isn't much difference there. Now, we may need to consider that Ray might believe that both make up the desired daily amount, 5mg or so but that would depend heavily on the current state of your metabolism. As we are all aware, too much vitamin A, when things are not functioning properly, will further suppress the thyroid function and metabolism. Balance and context.
The benefits of eating eggs (Good free range woodland organic) yolks massively outweigh the negatives t0 the point of (and this is my opinion) virtual insignificance, especially if they are eaten with OJ, Milk, coffee, cheese, and cooked in butter/coconut oil. With those thing your body rids itself of the PUFA before it has a chance to do damage. That is one massively metabolism boosting breakfast.
Not that I read anything into it BUT the Recommended Daily Allowance for Vitamin A in the UK is 0.7mg per day. 2.5+mg per day is a considerable amount more than that which is likely very good.
Charlie said:narouz said:
Yes, more vitamin A I agree. I was recently talking to clint and he said he gets 4 egg yolks in a day. So yesterday, I ate 4 eggs yolks. I will probably do at least 3 egg yolks a day for a while. Liver, well, I dunno.
Kettlebell, man I so dont want to log my food but it might be a good idea. If I dont improve in a week or two I might consider it. Thank you though for the suggestion as its a really good one. I just dont want the stress of logging.
narouz said:
Dang narouz, you are coming which such good stuff my head it going to explode! Damn dain bramage!
Yes, that is very interesting and I have definitely increased the A starting yesterday, and today, my red skin problem is noticeably better. Imagine that. I am going to keep pumping in the A via eggs and supplement, maybe I will force myself to get some liver, uggh.
And, I also dramatically increased sugar.
The great thing about egg yolks is they contain a good amount of B1, B2, B5, Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium and Zinc. Four normal sized egg yolks will give you approximately 9mg Zinc and 1.4mg Vitamin A. Add that to the A from milk, cheese and butter and you can easily be getting 2.5mg per day every day which is a good amount.
Consider that Ray recommends eating liver once "Every week or two" (Something I have heard Ray say in interviews and on Danny Roddys site(?)). Lets say you eat it once every two weeks. A 250gm serving has very roughly (Depending on the animal) 40mg vitamin A, which equates to 2.9mg per day over a two week period.
There isn't much difference there. Now, we may need to consider that Ray might believe that both make up the desired daily amount, 5mg or so but that would depend heavily on the current state of your metabolism. As we are all aware, too much vitamin A, when things are not functioning properly, will further suppress the thyroid function and metabolism. Balance and context.
The benefits of eating eggs (Good free range woodland organic) yolks massively outweigh the negatives t0 the point of (and this is my opinion) virtual insignificance, especially if they are eaten with OJ, Milk, coffee, cheese, and cooked in butter/coconut oil. With those thing your body rids itself of the PUFA before it has a chance to do damage. That is one massively metabolism boosting breakfast.
Not that I read anything into it BUT the Recommended Daily Allowance for Vitamin A in the UK is 0.7mg per day. 2.5+mg per day is a considerable amount more than that which is likely very good.
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
D'oh my post above should read sweet potato mash.
Just to compare, not trying to get anyone into my sweet potato cult...
1 Cup sweet potato has 51631 IU of vitamin A - Retinol Activity Equivalent 2.6mg - (IF you can convert carotene - and dispose of the excess properly)
0.2g PUFA compared to 4 egg yolks at 2.9g and liver at 1.9g per 250g
Tastes beautiful - egg yolks are nice, but liver tastes like ****
imo a cup of sweet pot is far more satisfying than either egg yolk or liver, and has;
Sucrose 4690mg
Glucose 1771mg
Fructose 1410mg
Maltose 10956mg
so reasonably Peaty as far as carbs go..
Ray says carotene is generally well handled. Carotenemia seems to be more a symptom of Hypothyroidism than a cause.
D'oh my post above should read sweet potato mash.
Just to compare, not trying to get anyone into my sweet potato cult...
1 Cup sweet potato has 51631 IU of vitamin A - Retinol Activity Equivalent 2.6mg - (IF you can convert carotene - and dispose of the excess properly)
0.2g PUFA compared to 4 egg yolks at 2.9g and liver at 1.9g per 250g
Tastes beautiful - egg yolks are nice, but liver tastes like ****
imo a cup of sweet pot is far more satisfying than either egg yolk or liver, and has;
Sucrose 4690mg
Glucose 1771mg
Fructose 1410mg
Maltose 10956mg
so reasonably Peaty as far as carbs go..
Ray says carotene is generally well handled. Carotenemia seems to be more a symptom of Hypothyroidism than a cause.
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Combie, I am doing all I can to stay away from starches. Peat has made the argument well, and I cannot deny it any longer. Doesnt mean I wont have a potatoe occasionally, but for the most part, starches are out of my life. I do love me some sweet potatoes and butter though!
Kettlebell, thanks so much for doing the math for me! Right on!! So it looks like my vitamin A ingestion is doing well, plus, I do supplement a little bit of it, so I should definitely be good to go. Eggs also have biotin in them which is super good. So I am definitely going to stick with at least 3 eggs a day for now but most likely 4 and see how it goes.
Combie said:
Combie, I am doing all I can to stay away from starches. Peat has made the argument well, and I cannot deny it any longer. Doesnt mean I wont have a potatoe occasionally, but for the most part, starches are out of my life. I do love me some sweet potatoes and butter though!
Kettlebell, thanks so much for doing the math for me! Right on!! So it looks like my vitamin A ingestion is doing well, plus, I do supplement a little bit of it, so I should definitely be good to go. Eggs also have biotin in them which is super good. So I am definitely going to stick with at least 3 eggs a day for now but most likely 4 and see how it goes.
Re: Minocycline Antibiotic Log
Has Ray specifically argued against Sweet Pots? In terms of starch, i think he makes the fruit is better, and really cook it well arguments but not the have none at all argument. The arguments re starch are that its all glucose, no fructose. Sweet pots have a glucose:fructose ratio of 4:1, which according to a study he cites in one of the sugar podcasts is within acceptable range for fructose to catalyse glucose metabolism. Then theres persorption, which is eliminated when all the starch granules have gelatinised, either via cooking really well, like with roots, or preparing in a certain way, like nixtamalised corn for example.
You have to try these things, and im glad i did, because sweet pots are the shiz-nit imo.
Charlie said:
Has Ray specifically argued against Sweet Pots? In terms of starch, i think he makes the fruit is better, and really cook it well arguments but not the have none at all argument. The arguments re starch are that its all glucose, no fructose. Sweet pots have a glucose:fructose ratio of 4:1, which according to a study he cites in one of the sugar podcasts is within acceptable range for fructose to catalyse glucose metabolism. Then theres persorption, which is eliminated when all the starch granules have gelatinised, either via cooking really well, like with roots, or preparing in a certain way, like nixtamalised corn for example.
You have to try these things, and im glad i did, because sweet pots are the shiz-nit imo.
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