Low Stomach Acid

[j.]

The complexity boils down to do not consume it without food on an empty stomach.

 

[CellularIconoclast]

so you're saying you avoided the ones that caused you bloating???? I want to eventually get my body used to eating everything. . . . I thought if I keep eating the ones that bother me, my body will eventually get used to them.

Yes, I quit eating everything that caused bloating, and as much as possible of things that did not. I had previously been doing a lot of fasting and low carb dieting (thinking I could starve the gut bacteria out), and I was later operating on the theory that my metabolism was so low I was unable to produce stomach acid, causing the bloating. I needed to get food intake higher but was in a downward spiral, as I could barely eat anything. The bloating was terrifying as my mental function was very poor, and I felt extremely helpless. Usually I can make a plan of action to try to fix something, but in this case it took a long time to act and I was very scared, as I felt like I was losing the mental ability to make good decisions.

I went to a doctor and he prescribed me a proton pump inhibitor (?!??) but I refused to take this, as my theory was insufficient stomach acid, not excessive stomach acid.

After the bloating was gone for several weeks, I found I could again handle the foods that were causing bloating before. However, there are different causes of bloating and yours might be different than mine was.

I don't take the HCL anymore, as I'm not convinced it's safe or beneficial. However, I didn't think to try it during the bloating issue.

 

[Mittir]

I am doing lots of gelatin, but if gelatine is not being digested either, how is it going to help me?? If I keep at all these foods, even if one is bothering me, will my body eventually adapt?? I think I'll try lactose free milk and keep at the gelatin, salt, and taurine???? That's in gelatin no, so I dont need a supplement.

I think digestion of certain foods gets better with time, especially the one that
got to do with gut flora. There are several studies showing digestion of milk
improved even in lactose intolerant people with repeated exposure.
If someone has bad bacteria then ingesting soluble fiber will most likely
worsen digestion. You just have to pay attention how you feel when you
add new foods.
Studies showing caffeine increasing estrogen are flawed.
There is a RP reply on this in Email Advice section.
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1543&start=10
RP usually does not recommend isolated amino acids, but he has written
about glycine in magnesium glycinate supplement. I remember studies
where they saw improvement in diabetic patient using 5 grams of
glycine daily. Here is a RP quote on magnesium glycinate.
He also mentioned that Taurine is structurally similar to glycine and
has some similar benefits. RP mentioned that both Glycine and Taurine
have anti-estrogenic function. Glycine has tons of health benefits besides this.

There are several prescription drugs that protect against serotonin excess, but thyroid and gelatin (or glycine, as in magnesium glycinate) are protective against the serotonin and melatonin toxicities http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/aging-eyes.shtml

 

[pboy]

lol j. Yes coffee can help by nature of its mineral content, just don't take it black if you are already hungry (add a couple tsp sugar). Cacao or cocoa powder is available at most stores...its just the cocoa you would bake with. I prefer the unroasted kind but its more expensive and rare...might have to look in a vitamin department of health food store, but roasted is fine also. I just like the adjunct mood molecules associated with the unroasted cocoa

the pregnancy might have weakened your core muscles a bit, it happened to me when I unsuccessfully followed a vegan diet for a couple years...to where almost anything made me feel bloated or like it was just sitting there...I would literally have to massage my gut and dance around or move around sometimes to get things moving. So over time, simply allowing your muscles to get stronger or even working them out a little by bending flexing and moving more can help a lot. Most torso based muscles, the stronger they are, the easier it is to digest and move things especially coupled with movement. I know how it is when you can barely eat and don't have energy to want to expend a lot and exercise, but just, when you can, stretch a little and kind of flex the torso mucles as much as you comfortably can in the flow of your life. It will add up and eventually you wont be nearly as sensetive

 

[mamaherrera]

maybe that's part of it, maybe I"m not so bad with my stomach acid. Thanks for pointing that out. I am doing core strengthening, but anything takes time. i read about the coffee/estrogen, confusing. maybe next time I get my magnesium supplement, I'll get the magnesium glycine, and that will help give me similar effects of taurine. Thanks, again for pointing that out about pregnancy still affecting me in many ways.

 

[Curt :-)]

I haven't read the whole thread, but yes, I did HCL therapy for a few months. Results were great. PM me if you want specifics

 

[Kasper]

I wonder if this is true, from Chirs Kresser:

Note: HCL should never be taken (and this test should not be performed) by anyone
who is also using any kind of anti-inflammatory medication such as corticosteroids
(e.g. predisone), aspirin, Indocin, ibuprofen (e.g. Motrin, Advil, etc.) or other NSAIDS.
These drugs can damage the GI lining that supplementary HCL might aggravate,
increasing the risk of gastric bleeding or ulcer.

...[other page]

Although I prefer obtaining nutrients from food whenever possible, , as I explained
above, supplements are sometimes necessary – especially for short periods.
Deglycyrrhizinated licorice (DGL) has been shown to be effective in treating gastric and
duodenal ulcers, and works as well in this regard as Tagamet or Zantac, with far fewer
side effects and no undesirable acid suppression. In animal studies, DGL has even been
shown to protect the stomach lining against damage caused by aspirin and other
NSAIDs.

DGL works by raising the concentration of compounds called prostaglandins, which
promote mucous secretion, stabilize cell membranes, and stimulate new cell growth – all
of which contributes to a healthy gut lining. Both chronic stress and use of NSAIDs
suppress prostaglandin production, so it is vital for anyone dealing with any type of
digestive problem (including GERD) to find ways to manage their stress and avoid the use
of NSAIDs as much as possible.

 

[pboy]

I agree on the aspirin, ibuprofen idea...I dont take aspirin even though Peat recommends it. Such substances clearly mess with my gut, pretty much all over the counter type pain killers. Havent taken any in 7+ years. I also wouldn't take the licorice either, it can mess with kidney cortico hormones and cause electryolyte imbalance, and also mess with the gut. As for the prostaglandins promoting acid secretion and mucous secretion, ive read a lot that would suggest this is the case. If it is, the amount of PUFA in milk and cheese apparently is enough for me. Or, perhaps Mead acid can promote the same prostaglandins and therefore secretions, making dietary PUFA a non factor...cant say I know, but either way, a small amount without purposely consuming any extra is enough

 

[Kasper]

I think I've developed a mild case of gastritis or dyspepsia during the last months.
The symptoms are just mild stomach irritation, that can get much worse if I eat some foods.
Also much burping and foods that would raise all the way back to my mouth, if it is really irritated.

I'm not sure if this is due to aspirin, but maybe it is better quite te aspirin to cure this.
It is strange, aspirin seems beneficial for pain and inflammation, except for pain in the stomach.
And prostraglandin (from PUFAs) seem bad for pain and inflammation, except for inflammation in the stomach.

 

[juanitacarlos]

I've had the opposite with aspirin. Before Peating, I had quite bad acid reflux, which improved and now has gone. I was taking aspirin the whole time. So it did not seem to affect me negatively at all. I'm on about gram a day now (pure form, completely dissolved in hot water). I used to take it on an empty stomach, but now usually after a meal with the haidut mix of caffeine and B3. From Asprin, brain and cancer:

Until the 1950s and 1960s, when new products were being promoted, little was said about the possibility of stomach ulceration from aspirin. Lately, there has been more publicity about the damage it can do to the stomach and intestine, much of it in connection with the sale of the new "COX-2 inhibitors." (These new drugs, rather than protecting the circulatory system as aspirin does, damage it.) Aspirin rapidly breaks down into acetic acid and salicylic acid (which is found in many fruits), and salicylic acid is protective to the stomach and intestine, and other organs. When aspirin was compared with the other common antiinflammatory drugs, it was found that the salicylic acid it releases protects against the damage done by another drug. (Takeuchi, et al, 2001; Ligumsky, et al., 1985.) Repeated use of aspirin protects the stomach against very strong irritants. The experiments in which aspirin produces stomach ulcers are designed to produce ulcers, not to realistically model the way aspirin is used.

Of course, if you take aspirin and it irritates your stomach, then stop taking it. But it actually could be useful - maybe taken with food and fully dissolved. I started small and worked my way up.

I found bone broth worked far more effectively than gelatin/hydrolysed collagen with healing my gut issues. I really recommend it.

 

[mamaherrera]

And I have some in my fridge going to waste. I need to drink it, hope it's still good.

 

[honeybee]

I use hcl supplements with good results-my hair stops shedding and my fingernails are losing ridges. It's noticable. Increased age (I'm mid 40s)supposedly corresponds with a lowered hcl and bad digestion blah blah . So if you can "fix" your digestive issues and/or you are younger than 40, then you probably produce enough hcl. BUT if you have tried a lot of things and are in the long haul of correcting hypothyroid which should in turn correct digestion, this could be awhile in coming. Then you might find hcl useful for a short time frame. Just my experience. It's a tool.

 

[haidut]

I use hcl supplements with good results-my hair stops shedding and my fingernails are losing ridges. It's noticable. Increased age (I'm mid 40s)supposedly corresponds with a lowered hcl and bad digestion blah blah . So if you can "fix" your digestive issues and/or you are younger than 40, then you probably produce enough hcl. BUT if you have tried a lot of things and are in the long haul of correcting hypothyroid which should in turn correct digestion, this could be awhile in coming. Then you might find hcl useful for a short time frame. Just my experience. It's a tool.

I forgot to mention that caffeine stimulates acid production. I can't find the study right now but the effect was very strong and used relatively low dosage around 200mg. Also, coffee stimulates acid production and I think the effect was due to chlorogenic acid in the coffee.

 

[Filip1993]

I've had the opposite with aspirin. Before Peating, I had quite bad acid reflux, which improved and now has gone. I was taking aspirin the whole time. So it did not seem to affect me negatively at all. I'm on about gram a day now (pure form, completely dissolved in hot water). I used to take it on an empty stomach, but now usually after a meal with the haidut mix of caffeine and B3. From Asprin, brain and cancer:

Until the 1950s and 1960s, when new products were being promoted, little was said about the possibility of stomach ulceration from aspirin. Lately, there has been more publicity about the damage it can do to the stomach and intestine, much of it in connection with the sale of the new "COX-2 inhibitors." (These new drugs, rather than protecting the circulatory system as aspirin does, damage it.) Aspirin rapidly breaks down into acetic acid and salicylic acid (which is found in many fruits), and salicylic acid is protective to the stomach and intestine, and other organs. When aspirin was compared with the other common antiinflammatory drugs, it was found that the salicylic acid it releases protects against the damage done by another drug. (Takeuchi, et al, 2001; Ligumsky, et al., 1985.) Repeated use of aspirin protects the stomach against very strong irritants. The
experiments in which aspirin produces stomach ulcers are designed to produce ulcers, not to realistically model the way aspirin is used.

Of course, if you take aspirin and it irritates your stomach, then stop taking it. But it actually could be useful - maybe taken with food and fully dissolved. I started small and worked my way up.

I found bone broth worked far more effectively than gelatin/hydrolysed collagen with healing my gut issues. I really recommend it.

ttramone- how do you make your bone broth?

 

[north]

I thought i had stomach issues since forever due to various reasons.
Tried betaine hcl, ac vinegar, etc etc you name it.
It disappeared completely in 1 hour when i started thyroid.

 

[pboy]

that makes sense. If you think about it, low stomach acid could theoretically be because of a deficiency in near anything. Any b vitamin or mineral that is a cofactor in making enzymes necessary simply for basic ATP production, which is pretty much them all to some extent, or not taking in enough energy over time could cause low stomach acid. The fact that thyroid helped you was probably an indication of an overall coenzyme / ATP / energy lack. I find a good indicator to stomach and whole GI secretions for that matter is simply the state of your saliva, or lack thereof

 

[BibleBeliever]

So far the best premise is to do everything to stimulate thyroid, which in turn increases acid production and helps fight SIBO and similar digestive issues.

From what I've read we need Vitamin b6 and zinc to make stomach acid. Sodium chloride and potassium chloride are the main two components; so adequate salt and potassium.
From the magnesium thread:
Magnesium Deficiency, A Brief Review

Low magnesium causes an improper use of vitamin b1, which causes low stomach acid. So Vitamin b1 is important for stomach acid production and needs magnesium for this function.
Magnesium is also needed for proper thyroid function, as well as iodine, selenium, vitamin a, zinc, etc.

Interestingly pork chops are high in vitamin b6, zinc and vitamin b1 and for a meat are pretty high in potassium, with about 10% magnesium. However higher in omega 6 pufas; I think 2-3 grams per 100ish grams of meat. I try to cook them so the fat comes out and either ditch the fat or let it settle; the saturated rises to the top as a white lard and the pufa/monosaturated sit under and is orangeish and can be discarded.

I have had great success Concentrace magnesium from Monno. 2.6 ml contains 260 mg of magnesium. However it does contain contaminates like a sea salt would. It is the concentrated minerals from the sea salt lake in Utah I believe, with the sodium removed. I believe it is magnesium chloride then? I am trying to figure out which type so I can buy a cheaper source of it and add it to water. I combine this with a lot of salt, as salt helps retain magnesium. I find it very calming and soothing, causing very deep relaxing sleeps.
I have had great difficulty with other magnesium supplements, especially citrate; citrate causing extreme irritability and aggression.

Interestingly you can find that mineral-rich spring waters can have a lot of magnesium; some 300mg per liter, and some even 600mg per liter.
I had difficulty increasing calcium with it causing inferior digestion, while this magnesium has greatly increased motility and superiority of it. Combining magnesium with calcium appears to be the best. Displaced calcium and even inefficient absorption come up with studying low magnesium in relation to calcium. Based on the spring water data it would then make sense that cultures/tribes with high calcium probably had very high magnesium diets too; their water alone would provide quite a bit.

Apple cider vinegar is very helpful, but hard on the teeth. Mixing it with some water helps dilute this and eating cheese after helps remineralize the teeth. However apple cider vinegar also increases potassium loss and I assume other minerals, as well as lowering blood sugar. So compensating with these would seem useful, especially in large doses. I read one German case of a woman who was having up to 500ml of apple cider vinegar daily over a prolonged period; diluted in water, who developed extremely low potassium as a result.

You can also read that bitters help stimulate stomach acid. The most economical source seems to be dandelion and the key is to chew on them as long and thoroughly as possible. This brings us back to making sure we chew our food thoroughly to help in the digestive process. Protein consumption appears to increase stomach acid more than anything and interestingly low protein is a key component of a slow thyroid.

I am studying this more, but came across this quote in this link:
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/food_combining.html

"Sugars inhibit the secretion of the hydrochloric acid in the stomach."

This is rather interesting if true, as it makes sense; if bitters increase stomach acid, then the opposite would decrease it.
However more study is needed to verify all the details. In the link he states that sugars/starches do not require much stomach acid to digest and that too much is counter-productive when digesting them; that is a unique claim that I will study more.

He recommends consuming sugars/starches on their own. Proteins and fats separately with something like apple cider vinegar.


So it seems so far what is needed is faster thyroid, salt, potassium, b6, zinc, b1, magnesium, coffee, taurine, proteins; especially gelatin, some apple cider vinegar and less water with meals.
Milk and cheese are high ph, so hypothyroid would have difficulty with them.

Exercise wise, walking before and after meals would be helpful. I have found the days I train I have the best digestion and the day after the training. High intensity burst training to build more muscle and lung strength. Sweating as much as possible. Sauna therapy also is very helpful; dangerous if excess sweat isn't countered with water, salt and the other vitals; coconut water is the best, far superior to gatorade.

I wonder what else there is to boost stomach acid.

 

[Beehelp]

I would suggest eating more meat, pickles, apples, oranges, tomatoes, onions and sauerkraut

 

[moringa]

So far the best premise is to do everything to stimulate thyroid, which in turn increases acid production and helps fight SIBO and similar digestive issues.

From what I've read we need Vitamin b6 and zinc to make stomach acid. Sodium chloride and potassium chloride are the main two components; so adequate salt and potassium.
From the magnesium thread:
Magnesium Deficiency, A Brief Review

Low magnesium causes an improper use of vitamin b1, which causes low stomach acid. So Vitamin b1 is important for stomach acid production and needs magnesium for this function.
Magnesium is also needed for proper thyroid function, as well as iodine, selenium, vitamin a, zinc, etc.

Interestingly pork chops are high in vitamin b6, zinc and vitamin b1 and for a meat are pretty high in potassium, with about 10% magnesium. However higher in omega 6 pufas; I think 2-3 grams per 100ish grams of meat. I try to cook them so the fat comes out and either ditch the fat or let it settle; the saturated rises to the top as a white lard and the pufa/monosaturated sit under and is orangeish and can be discarded.

I have had great success Concentrace magnesium from Monno. 2.6 ml contains 260 mg of magnesium. However it does contain contaminates like a sea salt would. It is the concentrated minerals from the sea salt lake in Utah I believe, with the sodium removed. I believe it is magnesium chloride then? I am trying to figure out which type so I can buy a cheaper source of it and add it to water. I combine this with a lot of salt, as salt helps retain magnesium. I find it very calming and soothing, causing very deep relaxing sleeps.
I have had great difficulty with other magnesium supplements, especially citrate; citrate causing extreme irritability and aggression.

Interestingly you can find that mineral-rich spring waters can have a lot of magnesium; some 300mg per liter, and some even 600mg per liter.
I had difficulty increasing calcium with it causing inferior digestion, while this magnesium has greatly increased motility and superiority of it. Combining magnesium with calcium appears to be the best. Displaced calcium and even inefficient absorption come up with studying low magnesium in relation to calcium. Based on the spring water data it would then make sense that cultures/tribes with high calcium probably had very high magnesium diets too; their water alone would provide quite a bit.

Apple cider vinegar is very helpful, but hard on the teeth. Mixing it with some water helps dilute this and eating cheese after helps remineralize the teeth. However apple cider vinegar also increases potassium loss and I assume other minerals, as well as lowering blood sugar. So compensating with these would seem useful, especially in large doses. I read one German case of a woman who was having up to 500ml of apple cider vinegar daily over a prolonged period; diluted in water, who developed extremely low potassium as a result.

You can also read that bitters help stimulate stomach acid. The most economical source seems to be dandelion and the key is to chew on them as long and thoroughly as possible. This brings us back to making sure we chew our food thoroughly to help in the digestive process. Protein consumption appears to increase stomach acid more than anything and interestingly low protein is a key component of a slow thyroid.

I am studying this more, but came across this quote in this link:
Food Combining – Jeremy E. Kaslow, M.D.

"Sugars inhibit the secretion of the hydrochloric acid in the stomach."

This is rather interesting if true, as it makes sense; if bitters increase stomach acid, then the opposite would decrease it.
However more study is needed to verify all the details. In the link he states that sugars/starches do not require much stomach acid to digest and that too much is counter-productive when digesting them; that is a unique claim that I will study more.

He recommends consuming sugars/starches on their own. Proteins and fats separately with something like apple cider vinegar.


So it seems so far what is needed is faster thyroid, salt, potassium, b6, zinc, b1, magnesium, coffee, taurine, proteins; especially gelatin, some apple cider vinegar and less water with meals.
Milk and cheese are high ph, so hypothyroid would have difficulty with them.

Exercise wise, walking before and after meals would be helpful. I have found the days I train I have the best digestion and the day after the training. High intensity burst training to build more muscle and lung strength. Sweating as much as possible. Sauna therapy also is very helpful; dangerous if excess sweat isn't countered with water, salt and the other vitals; coconut water is the best, far superior to gatorade.

I wonder what else there is to boost stomach acid.

never read ACV reduces potassium or other minerals... quite the opposite, the acids in ACV will help mineral absorption... do u have any literature for that claim?

 

[Mary Pruter]

Maybe the wrong place to ask this question but here goes....

Since my 91 year old mothers stay in the hospital and had to have a catheter, she has been suffering from a UTI that only seems to calm down and come back. She has dementia and talks to herself almost constantly. When she is doing this I give her ACV, a little over a tablespoon in water and she calms down and goes to sleep. She seems so much better for a few days to a week and then it' starts back up again. I am concerned that the ACV could be flushing her supplements she takes for her dementia out of her system or weakening their affect. Since her return home from the hospital in early August, her dementia has gotten so much worse. She is telling me she has talks with voices in her head, that people keep telling her things. It's like she's schizophrenic now. My question is, could the ACV be flushing the supplements out of her system?