Low Stomach Acid Remedies

[DanielleB]

I know that one of my main issues right now is low stomach acid. I believe that this is the precursor to secondary issues that result in long-term systemic failure of the organism.

For example, I would imagine it creates a chain of events as follow:

Low stomach acid ->compromised digestion->loss of nutrients & accumulation of internal toxins->low thyroid and lowered metabolism->fungus/bacterial overgrowth...which leads to more serious complications.

So obviously, I want to nip this in the bud before I start experiencing worsening of symptoms.

I've read through the forums and it doesn't seem that there is much conclusive advice on how to improve/raise stomach acid levels. I know that Betaine HCL isn't the best option and I would like to stimulate the stomach enough so it learns to produce the right amount consistently. I know that apple cider vinegar can help stimulate acid production but I don't know when to take it (before or after meals) to achieve the right effect.

After reading some of Ray's work, it seems that Calcium and salt are huge components in stomach acid production but it also seems that too much calcium can inhibit production. I am wondering what the sweet spot is for Calcium with taking the above into consideration.

Any and all advice is much appreciated, thanks all!

 

[theLaw]

Digestion has been one of my most difficult problems to solve, and here's what worked for me (now resolved):

1. Thyroid

2. Salt (at least 1T/day min - more liquid = more salt)

3. Smaller meals (not too much protein or fat)

4. Taurine/caffeine (basically red bull with meals)

5. Milk for calcium (I add choc syrup to mine - tried eggshell powder, but milk has been better for me)

Also, Glycine (large doses) for anything overly acidic.

Basically, for me the devil is in the dose. Cheers!

 

[DDK]

Inflammation causes low stomach acid, do you have any inflammation? If you do than correcting that would be the most important thing. Zinc is important, as well as all the B Vitamins in HCL production. Salt to taste and like the law said above, maybe something acidic to drink with meals? I would opt for Coke/Pepsi over Red Bull but either way. Raw honey can also help I've heard, don't know if it's increasing HCL or it's the digestive enzymes in the honey that accounts for the improved digestion.

 

[DanielleB]

Digestion has been one of my most difficult problems to solve, and here's what worked for me (now resolved):

1. Thyroid

2. Salt (at least 1T/day min - more liquid = more salt)

3. Smaller meals (not too much protein or fat)

4. Taurine/caffeine (basically red bull with meals)

5. Milk for calcium (I add choc syrup to mine - tried eggshell powder, but milk has been better for me)

Also, Glycine (large doses) for anything overly acidic.

Basically, for me the devil is in the dose. Cheers!

Thank you for the suggestions. I would prefer to stay away from thyroid supplementation if possible as I don't know want to mess anything up further and thyroid dosing is tricky and complicated.

So 1 tbsp of salt is adequate?...it seems many here advocate for a pretty high salt intake....
How is one supposed to gauge how much they need?

I've been drinking milk for calcium, about 1.5 liters a day, do you think that's too much? For caffeine with meals, would coffee suffice?

Would glycine supplementation be best or could one use collagen powder to achieve the same effects?

 

[DanielleB]

Inflammation causes low stomach acid, do you have any inflammation? If you do than correcting that would be the most important thing. Zinc is important, as well as all the B Vitamins in HCL production. Salt to taste and like the law said above, maybe something acidic to drink with meals? I would opt for Coke/Pepsi over Red Bull but either way. Raw honey can also help I've heard, don't know if it's increasing HCL or it's the digestive enzymes in the honey that accounts for the improved digestion.

That's interesting about the raw honey, will have to give that a try. Should it be taken before meals or after?

I don't think I have any inflammation. My recent labs didn't show any. Low stomach acid can also result from other issues though, right? Do you have any studies links that show that only inflammation causes low stomach acid. It seems th8e are multiple causes such as low thyroid and lowered metabolism as well from what I've read....

 

[DDK]

That's interesting about the raw honey, will have to give that a try. Should it be taken before meals or after?

I don't think I have any inflammation. My recent labs didn't show any. Low stomach acid can also result from other issues though, right? Do you have any studies links that show that only inflammation causes low stomach acid. It seems th8e are multiple causes such as low thyroid and lowered metabolism as well from what I've read....

You could have honey with meals or even on an empty stomach. I have heard of both ways working. Honey is very acidic so it could be aiding digestion that way or like I said it could be the enzymes. Yes, inflammation is just one of the causes of low HCL. Haidut posted about how GERD was not caused by low stomach acid but by inflammation. There are certainly other causes like H. Pylori for instance or autoimmune gastritis.

 

[DanielleB]

You could have honey with meals or even on an empty stomach. I have heard of both ways working. Honey is very acidic so it could be aiding digestion that way or like I said it could be the enzymes. Yes, inflammation is just one of the causes of low HCL. Haidut posted about how GERD was not caused by low stomach acid but by inflammation. There are certainly other causes like H. Pylori for instance or autoimmune gastritis.

So I thought that only a certain kind of honey, like Manuka honey, was suggested for use... something about antifungal or antimicrobial properties?

I certainly don't have GERD, H Pylori or gastritis, thank goodness, but I do believe that left untreated, low stomach acid could certainly evolve into any one of those health issues.

 

[theLaw]

Thank you for the suggestions. I would prefer to stay away from thyroid supplementation if possible as I don't know want to mess anything up further and thyroid dosing is tricky and complicated.

So 1 tbsp of salt is adequate?...it seems many here advocate for a pretty high salt intake....
How is one supposed to gauge how much they need?

I've been drinking milk for calcium, about 1.5 liters a day, do you think that's too much? For caffeine with meals, would coffee suffice?

Would glycine supplementation be best or could one use collagen powder to achieve the same effects?

https://raypeatforum.com/community/...-intake-is-at-least-230-higher-than-rda.4860/

Drink as much milk as you can. You might try coffee vs caffeine powder to see if one is better for your digestion.

I used glycine in pretty high doses to deal with gut inflammation, which might be hard to get from collagen.

 

[DDK]

So I thought that only a certain kind of honey, like Manuka honey, was suggested for use... something about antifungal or antimicrobial properties?

I certainly don't have GERD, H Pylori or gastritis, thank goodness, but I do believe that left untreated, low stomach acid could certainly evolve into any one of those health issues.

You don't need Manuka honey. It is way overpriced and over hyped. Just look for local raw wildflower honey. You should be able to find it at farmer's markets or local health food stores. All honey is antimicrobial not just Manuka, again this is just how they market Manuka honey. Local raw honey is just as antimicrobial and just as effective as Manuka, at least that is what I have seen with myself and others. Also, it's way cheaper.

Also, make sure you are getting enough macros, especially protein. Protein stimulates HCL production. Also, you need sufficient calories. A caloric deficit decreases stomach acid.

 

[Ras]

I know that Betaine HCL isn't the best option ...

Why?

 

[DDK]

Why?

Ray isn't a fan because betaine causes overmethylation.

 

[DanielleB]

You don't need Manuka honey. It is way overpriced and over hyped. Just look for local raw wildflower honey. You should be able to find it at farmer's markets or local health food stores. All honey is antimicrobial not just Manuka, again this is just how they market Manuka honey. Local raw honey is just as antimicrobial and just as effective as Manuka, at least that is what I have seen with myself and others. Also, it's way cheaper.

Also, make sure you are getting enough macros, especially protein. Protein stimulates HCL production. Also, you need sufficient calories. A caloric deficit decreases stomach acid.

Thank you so much for the advice!

 

[Dave Clark]

Ray isn't a fan because betaine causes overmethylation.

Isn't he talking about TMG, not betaine HCL? TMG is referred to as betaine, from what I read, and is helpful for methylation, however, I have never heard that about betaine HCL.

 

[Dave Clark]

I have seen graphs showing that at about age 18 a person produces about 200 ml/hr of stomach acid, by the time they are 50 years old they produce about 69 to 70 ml/hr. Not sure what study that came from. Shows that 'everybody' has some insufficiency of stomach acid in certain age groups.

 

[DanielleB]

I have seen graphs showing that at about age 18 a person produces about 200 ml/hr of stomach acid, by the time they are 50 years old they produce about 69 to 70 ml/hr. Not sure what study that came from. Shows that 'everybody' has some insufficiency of stomach acid in certain age groups.

Stomach acid production seems to naturally decrease with age but people who have low metabolism either from low thyroid or inflammation will have lowered stomach acid production regardless of age.

 

[Ras]

Isn't he talking about TMG, not betaine HCL? TMG is referred to as betaine, from what I read, and is helpful for methylation, however, I have never heard that about betaine HCL.

I thought that, too, but unless I'm reading it wrong, they seem to have identical chemical structures, save that Betaine HCl is Trimethylglycine carrying a Chloride. Either way, I'd say the methylation is worth it, considering the benefits of actually digesting food and guarding the bowels against pathogens.

 

[Zpol]

I used glycine in pretty high doses to deal with gut inflammation, which might be hard to get from collagen.

@theLaw Would you mind sharing how many grams you took to minimize gut inflammation? Did you take it in divided doses with meals or at night on an empty stomach? Some people report that glycine is somewhat sedating, hence, most people take at night. As for dosage, I've read most people take 3g to 5g, but this is coming from people using it to enhance sleep, whereas, I would like to take it to help with digestion and gut inflammation in hopes it will help me be able to eat more quantity of food (I have gastroparesis) and help with malabsorption syndrome. I've heard of one account where a person was taking 20g per day, pure glycine (not sure if this was in addition to gelatin or in absence of gelatin), I'm trying to determine if this is a good therapeutic dose to take for a while. I weigh 100 lbs, so I'll have to take that into account, I'll probably need a bit less than most people.

This topic is relevant to me so I happen to have a few posts collected that members on this thread might find useful (@haidut posts)...

I don't like betaine because it is a methyl donor. The human studies showed that humans do best on no more than 0.2mg/kg methionine daily - i.e lose fat and buid muscle, and reverse their type II diabetes. So, with all the methyl donors we ingest every day in the form of cysteine and methionine I don't think we need more in the form of betaine. I like the acid recipe more, it is more in line with the benefit of Lewis acids on metabolism.
Also, if these methyl donors were needed to process homocysteine then how come glycine (which is a huge methyl sink/depletor) lowers homocysteine?? In fact, that study says methionine (a methyl donor) raises homocysteine.
Suppression of methionine-induced hyperhomocysteinemia by glycine and serine in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Something about that theory of needing extra methyl groups to prevent inflammation does not add up...

A few recent human studies showed high homocystein is simply a symptom of vitamin B6 deficiency. So, you can try a bit of that if the goal is to reduce homocysteine. Glycine can lower both methionine and homocysteine, so that would be another thing to try. Glycine also improves gastric acid production, which is why most people take betaine Hcl. So, glycine could (maybe) safely replace betaine Hcl supplementation altogether.

Not so much gastric acid, but bile acid synthesis. Glycine can do both, but is better than taurine for gastric acid because it has effect on chloride channels, which taurine does not.

Would glycine supplementation be best or could one use collagen powder to achieve the same effects?

I've heard/read Chris Masterjohn talk on this topic, he says that it's different for different people. Some do best on pure glycine, some do best on collagen.

 

[theLaw]

@theLaw Would you mind sharing how many grams you took to minimize gut inflammation? Did you take it in divided doses with meals or at night on an empty stomach? Some people report that glycine is somewhat sedating, hence, most people take at night. As for dosage, I've read most people take 3g to 5g, but this is coming from people using it to enhance sleep, whereas, I would like to take it to help with digestion and gut inflammation in hopes it will help me be able to eat more quantity of food (I have gastroparesis) and help with malabsorption syndrome. I've heard of one account where a person was taking 20g per day, pure glycine (not sure if this was in addition to gelatin or in absence of gelatin), I'm trying to determine if this is a good therapeutic dose to take for a while. I weigh 100 lbs, so I'll have to take that into account, I'll probably need a bit less than most people.

This topic is relevant to me so I happen to have a few posts collected that members on this thread might find useful (@haidut posts)...I've heard/read Chris Masterjohn talk on this topic, he says that it's different for different people. Some do best on pure glycine, some do best on collagen.

I took around 20G max in a single dose to deal with significant inflammation (ulcer) based on this thread:

https://raypeatforum.com/community/...revent-esophagus-damage-caused-by-gerd.13840/

Also, I used it to lower cortisol and help with blood sugar regulation based on this:

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/glycine-powerfully-lowers-cortisol.9512/

So basically, I used high doses (10-20G initially) to deal with inflammation, then around 4G a few times per day with meals, or before bed.

Never found it to be sedative even at 20G. Also, I think that Haidut posted about there essentially being no harmful dose of glycine at <60G/day.

Whenever I'm unsure about dosage of a sup, I use a small amount every hour or two (1G for example) to see the effect.

 

[Zpol]

I took around 20G max in a single dose to deal with significant inflammation (ulcer) based on this thread:

https://raypeatforum.com/community/...revent-esophagus-damage-caused-by-gerd.13840/

Also, I used it to lower cortisol and help with blood sugar regulation based on this:

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/glycine-powerfully-lowers-cortisol.9512/

So basically, I used high doses (10-20G initially) to deal with inflammation, then around 4G a few times per day with meals, or before bed.

Never found it to be sedative even at 20G. Also, I think that Haidut posted about there essentially being no harmful dose of glycine at <60G/day.

Whenever I'm unsure about dosage of a sup, I use a small amount every hour or two (1G for example) to see the effect.

Thanks, this is extremely helpful! Your idea of taking small doses every hour or two seems like a good starting point for me.

 

[Wagner83]

Effect of diet on gastric secretion. - PubMed - NCBI

Effect of diet on gastric secretion.
Brooks FP.
Abstract
Meals stimulate gastric acid secretion in man and animals. The lowest pH of gastric content in man, however, occurs during the early morning hours. Protein meals are both effective buffers raising the gastric pH immediately after ingestion and potent stimulants to acid secretion lowering the pH as the meal is emptied. Two methods, intragastric titration and marker dilution methods are available for measuring acid output in man to a meal. Acid secretion is influenced by the appetizing qualities and the chemical and physical characteristics of the meal. In man and cat acid secretion in response to a meal can equal the maximal response to histamine and pentagastrin. In the dog, it exceeds it. Fat delays the acid secretory response. Both the vagus nerves and gastrin are implicated in mediating the response.