Low Stomach Acid

[Xisca]

Overall very good post, except maybe the 1st sentence: if you focus on thyroid and forget about drenals, you create an umbalance between the 2. I think we do not need to stimulate thyroid directly, but 1st care about adrenals and mineral balance. I agree very much with what you said about Na and K. Also maybe have a look at the balance between Ca and P? Too much Ca to P will not help with stomach acid...

So far the best premise is to do everything to stimulate thyroid, which in turn increases acid production and helps fight SIBO and similar digestive issues.

From what I've read we need Vitamin b6 and zinc to make stomach acid. Sodium chloride and potassium chloride are the main two components; so adequate salt and potassium.
From the magnesium thread:
Magnesium Deficiency, A Brief Review

Low magnesium causes an improper use of vitamin b1, which causes low stomach acid. So Vitamin b1 is important for stomach acid production and needs magnesium for this function.
Magnesium is also needed for proper thyroid function, as well as iodine, selenium, vitamin a, zinc, etc.

Interestingly pork chops are high in vitamin b6, zinc and vitamin b1 and for a meat are pretty high in potassium, with about 10% magnesium. However higher in omega 6 pufas; I think 2-3 grams per 100ish grams of meat. I try to cook them so the fat comes out and either ditch the fat or let it settle; the saturated rises to the top as a white lard and the pufa/monosaturated sit under and is orangeish and can be discarded.

I have had great success Concentrace magnesium from Monno. 2.6 ml contains 260 mg of magnesium. However it does contain contaminates like a sea salt would. It is the concentrated minerals from the sea salt lake in Utah I believe, with the sodium removed. I believe it is magnesium chloride then? I am trying to figure out which type so I can buy a cheaper source of it and add it to water. I combine this with a lot of salt, as salt helps retain magnesium. I find it very calming and soothing, causing very deep relaxing sleeps.
I have had great difficulty with other magnesium supplements, especially citrate; citrate causing extreme irritability and aggression.

Interestingly you can find that mineral-rich spring waters can have a lot of magnesium; some 300mg per liter, and some even 600mg per liter.
I had difficulty increasing calcium with it causing inferior digestion, while this magnesium has greatly increased motility and superiority of it. Combining magnesium with calcium appears to be the best. Displaced calcium and even inefficient absorption come up with studying low magnesium in relation to calcium. Based on the spring water data it would then make sense that cultures/tribes with high calcium probably had very high magnesium diets too; their water alone would provide quite a bit.

Apple cider vinegar is very helpful, but hard on the teeth. Mixing it with some water helps dilute this and eating cheese after helps remineralize the teeth. However apple cider vinegar also increases potassium loss and I assume other minerals, as well as lowering blood sugar. So compensating with these would seem useful, especially in large doses. I read one German case of a woman who was having up to 500ml of apple cider vinegar daily over a prolonged period; diluted in water, who developed extremely low potassium as a result.

You can also read that bitters help stimulate stomach acid. The most economical source seems to be dandelion and the key is to chew on them as long and thoroughly as possible. This brings us back to making sure we chew our food thoroughly to help in the digestive process. Protein consumption appears to increase stomach acid more than anything and interestingly low protein is a key component of a slow thyroid.

I am studying this more, but came across this quote in this link:
Food Combining – Jeremy E. Kaslow, M.D.

"Sugars inhibit the secretion of the hydrochloric acid in the stomach."

This is rather interesting if true, as it makes sense; if bitters increase stomach acid, then the opposite would decrease it.
However more study is needed to verify all the details. In the link he states that sugars/starches do not require much stomach acid to digest and that too much is counter-productive when digesting them; that is a unique claim that I will study more.

He recommends consuming sugars/starches on their own. Proteins and fats separately with something like apple cider vinegar.


So it seems so far what is needed is faster thyroid, salt, potassium, b6, zinc, b1, magnesium, coffee, taurine, proteins; especially gelatin, some apple cider vinegar and less water with meals.
Milk and cheese are high ph, so hypothyroid would have difficulty with them.

Exercise wise, walking before and after meals would be helpful. I have found the days I train I have the best digestion and the day after the training. High intensity burst training to build more muscle and lung strength. Sweating as much as possible. Sauna therapy also is very helpful; dangerous if excess sweat isn't countered with water, salt and the other vitals; coconut water is the best, far superior to gatorade.

I wonder what else there is to boost stomach acid.

For teeth, you can use the xylitol mouth wash. Also mouth wash with baking soda, and carefully not swallowing any and rinse with water after. Baking soda is bad for stomach acid.

I also agree with sugar being bad for stomach acid! If I want to wake up at night with stomach burn, I just have to eat ripe bananas for dinner!
I also agree with dendelion and bitters in general. When eating less sweet, they become even more enjoyable.... I think olive leaf can also be good, they are bitter and said to be good if h. pylori. Cider vinegar with greens is good to start a meal, and then proteins.

 

[Abc123]

Overall very good post, except maybe the 1st sentence: if you focus on thyroid and forget about drenals, you create an umbalance between the 2. I think we do not need to stimulate thyroid directly, but 1st care about adrenals and mineral balance. I agree very much with what you said about Na and K. Also maybe have a look at the balance between Ca and P? Too much Ca to P will not help with stomach acid...


For teeth, you can use the xylitol mouth wash. Also mouth wash with baking soda, and carefully not swallowing any and rinse with water after. Baking soda is bad for stomach acid.

I also agree with sugar being bad for stomach acid! If I want to wake up at night with stomach burn, I just have to eat ripe bananas for dinner!
I also agree with dendelion and bitters in general. When eating less sweet, they become even more enjoyable.... I think olive leaf can also be good, they are bitter and said to be good if h. pylori. Cider vinegar with greens is good to start a meal, and then proteins.

Do you have any good tips for the adrenals? Im suffering from Adrenal Fatigue and hypothyroidism. I have low morning cortisol. From what I read its best to stay away from Sugar. Is it possible to fix adrenal fatigue with Peating? (High Sugar?)

 

[Xisca]

Do you have any good tips for the adrenals? Im suffering from Adrenal Fatigue and hypothyroidism. I have low morning cortisol. From what I read its best to stay away from Sugar. Is it possible to fix adrenal fatigue with Peating? (High Sugar?)

My conclusion is to answer NO at the moment, and I went much better with paleo diet since october, and eating as raw as possible. I reset cortisol with a fast and it worked. I believe in context but that sugar and dairy are for 1 context. My context is slow oxidizer type 1 = low thyroid and adrenals at the same time. I was advised by the lab to up to 40% of my calories in form of animal proteins except dairies, and lower sugar and fat.

 

[Abc123]

My conclusion is to answer NO at the moment, and I went much better with paleo diet since october, and eating as raw as possible. I reset cortisol with a fast and it worked. I believe in context but that sugar and dairy are for 1 context. My context is slow oxidizer type 1 = low thyroid and adrenals at the same time. I was advised by the lab to up to 40% of my calories in form of animal proteins except dairies, and lower sugar and fat.

Great Thank you! How did you do the fast for resetting cortisol?

 

[Xisca]

Just a juice fast with veggies juice, you can use Breuss protocole, 1 week and then raw grated 1 week and went on with juicing too, and eating plenty of raw and loads of proteins and much less fruits and no starch, less coconut and more olive. I have kept the raw carrot lol! But beet juice with celery root juice and cucumber mix... No more dairy appart from an occasional tiny bit.

Never go out of a fast with sugar nor fruits or you do not get the cortisol result.

Again, fasting is not for fast oxidizers, even intermitent fasting do not suit them.

 

[Abc123]

Just a juice fast with veggies juice, you can use Breuss protocole, 1 week and then raw grated 1 week and went on with juicing too, and eating plenty of raw and loads of proteins and much less fruits and no starch, less coconut and more olive. I have kept the raw carrot lol! But beet juice with celery root juice and cucumber mix... No more dairy appart from an occasional tiny bit.

Never go out of a fast with sugar nor fruits or you do not get the cortisol result.

Again, fasting is not for fast oxidizers, even intermitent fasting do not suit them.

Thank you so much! I feel like I've tried everything and nothing would work for me.

 

[Xisca]

Thank you so much! I feel like I've tried everything and nothing would work for me.

When I have this, I tell myself I tried everything but the thing that works!
hhhhh why is it so hard to go straight to the right tip!

Also I think sometimes we need more than 1 thing at the same time, and if we try them separate they do not work.

Or for fasting, you can do it right, but then ruin it by breaking fast with fruit juice or any sweet stuff!

 

[Abc123]

When I have this, I tell myself I tried everything but the thing that works!
hhhhh why is it so hard to go straight to the right tip!

Also I think sometimes we need more than 1 thing at the same time, and if we try them separate they do not work.

Or for fasting, you can do it right, but then ruin it by breaking fast with fruit juice or any sweet stuff!

I will be avoiding caffeine, gluten, soy and dairy. Consuming mainly animal protein and veggies. I think starch 2x per week might be ok? I am an athlete and its tough to get in the carbs I need without elevating fiber too much.

Dried fruit made it extremely easy before. Ill see what I can do with these new changes. I been consuming a lot of baked brussel sprouts which are tasty

 

[moringa]

I will be avoiding caffeine, gluten, soy and dairy. Consuming mainly animal protein and veggies. I think starch 2x per week might be ok? I am an athlete and its tough to get in the carbs I need without elevating fiber too much.

Dried fruit made it extremely easy before. Ill see what I can do with these new changes. I been consuming a lot of baked brussel sprouts which are tasty

beware of undereating, athlete or not, you need to cover you basal metabolic rate and activity consumption in calories... one hour of workout can burn 500calories, BMR can be anywhere from 1500- 2500kcal per day, your daily activity(walking, working, siting) consumes more calories as well. Train 1 - 2 days and get one day TOTAL rest from working out... Ideally workout on monday, wednesday, friday and MAYBE saturday, tuesdat, thursday, sunday TOTAL rest from working out.

My BMR and daily activity would add up to 4000- 6000/kcal per day.. I ate probably 2000- 3000kcal per day, extreme calorie deficiency.

Im an elite athlete, I underate pretty much all this year, I am now dying, bed ridden. I am wasting away, my heart beats weakly and slowly and hurts, cant breath.

ALso, I experimented with zero salt diet in June July, while training 3- 5 hours per day, 6 days per week in extreme heat, I probably eliminated 500- 1500g of salt in 2 months from my body... One can eliminate between 1/2 to 1 tsp of salt per 1 hour of workout. Make the calculations

If you want to die at 29 like myself, ignore me.

IF you want to do sports, do it right, cover ur calories and salt and water intake FIRST. Veggies are very low in calories.

High Salt Diets & Athletic Performance w/ Dr. James Dinicolantonio:

 

[Abc123]

beware of undereating, athlete or not, you need to cover you basal metabolic rate and activity consumption in calories... one hour of workout can burn 500calories, BMR can be anywhere from 1500- 2500kcal per day, your daily activity(walking, working, siting) consumes more calories as well. Train 1 - 2 days and get one day TOTAL rest from working out... Ideally workout on monday, wednesday, friday and MAYBE saturday, tuesdat, thursday, sunday TOTAL rest from working out.

My BMR and daily activity would add up to 4000- 6000/kcal per day.. I ate probably 2000- 3000kcal per day, extreme calorie deficiency.

Im an elite athlete, I underate pretty much all this year, I am now dying, bed ridden. I am wasting away, my heart beats weakly and slowly and hurts, cant breath.

ALso, I experimented with zero salt diet in June July, while training 3- 5 hours per day, 6 days per week in extreme heat, I probably eliminated 500- 1500g of salt in 2 months from my body... One can eliminate between 1/2 to 1 tsp of salt per 1 hour of workout. Make the calculations

If you want to die at 29 like myself, ignore me.

IF you want to do sports, do it right, cover ur calories and salt and water intake FIRST. Veggies are very low in calories.

High Salt Diets & Athletic Performance w/ Dr. James Dinicolantonio:

Thank you so much of your reply! I've been taking in about 2800cals. I think I need to take in more calories for sure. Its been a tough battle to stay lean and progress with my training. I do include lots of Salt in my diet. Macros are 100F/300C/200P. I don't do too well with lots of carbs, I feel insulin resistant. Or maybe just not on enough thyroid hormone. Temps were low but I'm slightly warmer today. Thank you for your help!

 

[Luann]

the main things involved in gastric acid production are peptide hormones (enough protein), sodium chloride, potassium chloride, and CO2...so have enough protein, potassium and salt (sodium chloride, not baking soda) mainly...and don't be dehydrated. You also just need enough raw energy to produce CO2 that can be split and used in HCL production. If you are already low, it can be hard because you obviously need to digest energy to then produce energy. I think milk could actually be a good tool if you are fine with lactose. If not, decoct (boil in water and strain) cacao powder or nibs or something with a lot of potassium, coffee could be helpful but sometimes it is too strong...gauge it by taste (fruit might be hard if the digestion is already low, and fiberous food), add a bit of cane sugar and pinch salt to help. Carrot juice, though not recommended long term or in large amounts, is actually a really good tool to rebuild digestion...tons of potassium, some sodium and chloride, easy to digest...some protein but youd probably want something else in addition.

You gotta keep in mind though, you cant just fix digestion and expect it to stay fully firing, you kind of have to get into a flow of consistenly keeping it up...basically through diet is the main way. Stress can temporarily lower it, but if it was already strong to begin with it will spring back as or almost as strong after the stress subsides...where as if it was low to begin with, even lowering stress wouldn't bring it up to par

Great post, I've been realizing protein digestion as a source of food intolerance over the last few days. There are some articles about it that are good, and personally I would notice that whenever I tried to eat more protein over a couple of days, it would culminate in The Headache every time. I wind up feeling like I am unintentionally hurting myself, need to make over my diet, a moment of seriously-what-did-I-do-so-wrong. Now I think that proline, one of the more problematic proteins if your enzymes aren't up to it, was probably building up every time I tried to increase protein and eventually became too much to handle.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Is Vitamin B3 Dependency a Causal Factor in the Development of Hypochlorhydria and Achlorhydria?

"[..]hypochlorhydria is a condition where the parietal cells of the stomach secrete insufficient amounts of HCl when stimulated by the presence of food or other known stimulators such as fasting,[9] caffeine, [10] alcohol,[10] and calcium carbonate.[10]"

"While several studies have demonstrated that HCl production apparently decreases with advancing age,[25-27] the Feldman and Barnett study demonstrated that an elevated basal pH had the same clinical significance regardless of the age of the subject. A study by Hurwitz et al demonstrated that with advancing age there is not a decline in HCl production.[28] The study assessed the prevalence of basal gastric acidity and atrophic gastritis in 248 Caucasian male and female subjects aged 65 years or older. The results revealed that only 16% of the study subjects were deficient in their ability to secrete stomach acid, and that this compared almost equally to the 14% frequency that occurs among a much younger (mean age, 30 years) population group. Furthermore, the incidence of achlorhydria among the study participants did not exceed 11%, which evidently does not differ significantly when compared to younger people either."

"In summary, HCl secretion does not necessarily decline with advancing age as the prevalence of impaired HCl secretion appears to affect the elderly and young population groups equally. If age is not the most important factor to be considered, there must be another reason to account for impaired HCl secretion. It is my belief that vitamin B3 dependency, if not corrected, is a causal factor in the development of hypochlorhydria, and, in severe cases, achlorhydria. Furthermore, one of the early manifestations of vitamin B3 dependency is hypochlorhydria."

"[..]a vitamin B3 dependency denotes an increased metabolic need for the vitamin. The definition of a vitamin dependency has been well described in many publications.[1,3,32] The cause of a vitamin B3 dependency probably stems from long-term environmental-genetic stresses that impair biochemical processes dependent upon a constant supply of the vitamin."

"Kaufman’s work showed that as little as 50-100 mg of niacinamide three times per day was all that was required to completely ameliorate the troublesome signs and symptoms of aniacinamidosis.[36] His work demonstrated that no one is immune to the aniacin-amidosis syndrome, as it occurs in children and adults, and that the subtle progressive deterioration of mental and physical health is often “attributed mistakenly by the patient and his associates to be part of the natural aging process.”[37] This also implies that hypochlorhydria, as part of the aniacinamidosis syndrome, is not a function of aging, but rather a consequence of vitamin B3 dependency."

"As previously stated, deficiency of vitamin B3 is extremely rare although a dependency on the vitamin is not. Many people living in our highly industrialized society suffer from “affluent malnutrition,” a term coined by Hoffer.[3] This term presumes that present day food practices and habits (i.e., processed foods, unnatural synthetic food compounds, too many refined sugars, and too much saturated fat) promote malnutrition and/or disrupts the in vivo conversion of dietary tryptophan into a sufficient amount of niacin. Even though these individuals will not exhibit clinical features of vitamin B3 deficiency, they will probably manifest hypochlorhydric symptoms early in the course of their dependent state. In his article, 'Vitamin B3 Dependency: Chronic Pellagra', Hoffer states that any “chronic gastrointestinal syndrome will probably lead to one or more vitamin dependencies,”[3] with vitamin B3 being one of them. In the Encyclopedia of Human Nutrition, achlorhydria is listed as one of the clinical features of the pellagrous disease.[38] Perhaps many patients having achlorhydria simply suffer from a chronic form of advanced vitamin B3 dependency that has persisted for many years."

"Only when the other neurotransmitter-hormonal substances (acetylcholine and gastrin) are present will the available histamine enable a strong release of HCl production to occur. Histamine is by far the most important of the three mediators. When H2- receptor antagonists such as cimetidine block the effect of histamine, acetylcholine and gastrin cannot produce adequate amounts of HCl secretion. Therefore, the stimulus for HCl secretion depends upon histamine being present with acetylcholine and gastrin."

"Half the parietal cell volume is occupied by mitochondria,[55] making the parietal cells the largest storehouse of mitochondria among all eukaryotic cells.[56] Basic biochemistry has revealed to us that the free energy produced by oxidative phosphorylation within the mitochondria is used to produce ATP. A report by Spenney,[55] elucidating the mechanisms of HCl secretion, has shown it to be an ATP-dependent process."

"A deficiency in HCl production will inevitably favor the colonization of H. pylori. Vitamin B3 is critical for the maintenance of optimal parietal cell function and is integral for the production of ATP that drives HCl secretion. An uncorrected vitamin B3 dependency could lead to histological changes among the parietal cells, a weakened gastric defense system, leading to gastric mucosal damage, the development of acute and/or chronic gastritis, hypo- and achlorhydria, and H. pylori infection."

"Even though I consider vitamin B3 to be the primary treatment for hypo- and achlorhydria, other nutritional interventions may be necessary as part of an optimum orthomolecular treatment plan. For instance riboflavin (vitamin B2) and/or pyridoxine (vitamin B6) dependencies can impair the biosynthesis of tryptophan into niacin. Riboflavin is the coenzyme for kynurenine hydroxylase and pyridoxine is the coenzyme for kynureninase – both enzymes enable the in vivo conversion of tryptophan to niacin.[31] If a dependency of any one of these vitamins exists, clinical features of vitamin B3 dependency may manifest with hypochlorhydria being the first sign of such a problem."

"Mycotoxins deplete tissue stores of vitamin B3 and may play a role in the development of gastrointestinal symptoms.[31] An excess of dietary leucine inhibits kynureninase, and depletes the formation NAD.[31] An imbalance of leucine due to an excessive intake will further deplete NAD synthesis as it is a competitive inhibitor of tryptophan for tissue uptake.[31] Estrogen metabolites are competitive inhibitors of kynureninase, whereas progesterone or its conjugates may reduce the activity of kynurenine hydroxylase.[72] Hormonal imbalances may precipitate vitamin B3 dependency and cause chronic gastrointestinal symptoms."

"The use of niacin may be more therapeutic than niacinamide due to its functional ability to indirectly stimulate the release of HCl from parietal cells. Both forms of vitamin B3 appear to restore “health” to the parietal cells in a manner that is related to mitochondrial function."​

 

[JohnP]

Generally 3 capsules of Betaine HCL (650mg per capsule) is more than enough. I actually tested it using the pH meter and beyond 3 capsules per meal it is mostly useless and waste of money.

 

[RayPeatFan777]

Generally 3 capsules of Betaine HCL (650mg per capsule) is more than enough. I actually tested it using the pH meter and beyond 3 capsules per meal it is mostly useless and waste of money.

but thats just for your stomach, right?

 

[ddjd]

Both caffeine and taurine increase stomach acid and a safe way to get both is to drink RedBull.

redbull also contains niacinamide, rather than regular niacin, so another great reason

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I suspect I have Hypochlorhydria.

• Things like coffee, RedBull, coke, help with getting bowel movements. They do not improve bloating.
• I also supplemented Zinc, B6 (pyridoxine) for a while, no effect on digestion.
• Baking soda: no effect on digestion.
• ACV: minimal positive effects on degestion, does not reduce bloating. Feels good taking it
• Taking thyroid (1 week on it)- does not reduce bloating, does not improve transit time.
• carrot salad - minor improvements in transit time, no effect on bloating.

I have 1-2 bowel movements / day, so I'm good in this regard. My problem is permanent bloating. Every food gives me bloating.
I ordered charcoal, should arrive in a few days.

 

[Sofia]

That could be problem with pancreas, which is not making digestive enzymes.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@Sofia Oh, forgot to mention. Neither Taurine had no effect on my digestion, too. Nor high dose Magnesium.

 

[davvid_1]

Is the betaine test accurate> Im on 4-5 pills with a meal with no side effects yet, can I be sure my stomach acid is a bit low

 

[orewashin]

Would an acidic fluid like vinegar, lemon, or lime help low stomach acid?