""Low Serum AM Cortisol The Cause Of My Problems?""

[FitnessMike]

When you tried adrenal cortex, is this what you did? I know you said you built a tolerance to it or something

I tried to but if I don't take even a tiny bit of thyroid supplement my symptoms became unbearable, its like when i take thyroid some symptoms gets better and some worse, it works to some extent but because it uses up cortisol sort of, it lowers already low adrenal reserve and make other symptoms worse.

Yesterday i took few drops of tyromix throughout the day and i had heart palpitations and i had raised adrenaline clearly, its like your bodu isnt ready to raise metabolism if your adrenal reserve or other aspects aren't in place, so i decided to stop taking for week or two then maybe start reintroducing slowly tyromix and if i wont still tolerate it i will take a break again and increase HC to 10 mg , 5 am 5 afternoon and then start tyromix again. I need to do whatever it takes to start tolerating thyroid, and hope that it is true that physiological doses of HC are perfectly safe as i read multiple times.

 

[FitnessMike]

"""
Thyroid alone gave me some very bad side effects at first -- full body tremor, muscle weakness, severe intracranial pressure, nausea and various other unpleasant effects. I tried it on and off for almost a year at different doses, different brands, different forms (ndt, synthetic, t4 solo, etc), all to no avail.

I had very low cortisol after years of hypothyroidism, and had to support them in order to tolerate thyroid. You may be the same, so be aware of that if you don't react well at first. To support the adrenals, you can use adrenal cortex extract + progesterone + dhea. If your body temps change by more than 0.4-5c each day (I.e, you wake up at 35.8, and mid-afternoon an hour after eating its 36.6 -- an increase of 0.8c) you may need adrenal support first. Peat hasn't covered this much, but even he admits some can do well with 5mg of hydrocortisone at first. Preg and/or prog + adrenal cortex extract should be able to the job instead of hc, however.

Took maybe a year in total. Once I had my temps held solid at 36.6c waking, 37 by mid-afternoon, I slowly tapered off everything and they held."""

 

[FitnessMike]

"""You don't have to take cortisol supplements forever - once you get cortisol high enough to support good thyroid function, the adreanls will start to repair and you can start to taper off after a couple of months or so."""

""""
The book I mentioned before suggests supporting adrenals for two weeks prior to introducing thyroid (if adrenal issues are suspected based on symptoms). It suggests adrenal cortex extract, but it also says taking 35mg of pregnenolone will suffice if the situation isn't terrible (which is was for me - thyroid gave me an adrenal crisis first time I tried it). If you already started on thyroid and didn't have a bad reaction, you're adrenals aren't in too bad a shape.

The excessive urination is high adrenaline, not high cortisol. Adrenaline is usually produced in excess whilst hypothyroid and low in cortisol as a compensatory mechanism, so anything that requires an excess of cortisol will result in an excess of adrenaline as the former isn't available. I used to have the same - every time I exercised, my heart rate would stay elevated all day and night, couldn't sleep if I'd been the gym, and even a small amount of stress or excess of liquid would make me urinate excessively and it was completely clear."""

 

[FitnessMike]

"""Thyroid increases the rate of cortisol metabolism and clearance, so if the adrenals are impaired - either by adrenal atrophy or secondary adrenal insufficiency from too low ACTH - taking thyroid can quickly trigger a full blown adrenal crisis if the cortisol is already low enough."""

Adrenal insufficiency and thyroid replacement therapy - PubMed

Adrenal insufficiency and thyroid replacement therapy

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Acute adrenal crisis precipitated by thyroxine.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Adrenal insufficiency and thyroid replacement therapy - PubMed

Adrenal insufficiency and thyroid replacement therapy

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Korven]

Thank you for sharing this information @FitnessMike

For a while I've suspected my adrenals are fried/HPA downregulation = inadequate cortisol = feel like death, especially in the AM. History of severe emotional stress for many years, spending way too much time in the gym lifting weights (even though I felt awful afterwards), eating restrictive diets e.g intermittent fasting, drinking way too much coffee, carnivore, vegan, shredding down etc. It all adds up I guess.

I am going to get some testing done to see where my hormones are at. But in the meantime I'll do an experiment to see whether adrenal gland extract (+ preg?) helps or not.

 

[FitnessMike]

For a while I've suspected my adrenals are fried/HPA downregulation = inadequate cortisol = feel like death, especially in the AM. History of severe emotional stress for many years, spending way too much time in the gym lifting weights (even though I felt awful afterwards), eating restrictive diets e.g intermittent fasting, drinking way too much coffee, carnivore, vegan, shredding down etc. It all adds up I guess.

LOL, tell me about it, we made so many same mistakes... i think chronic starving is biggest in equation one, I believe there are many like us, that messed up with thyroid due to chronic stress and wasn't aware enough to address it properly at the beginning, and then not tolerating thyroid meds as a result of suboptimal cortisol...

I think a good test is to check blood pressure sitting and then standing, the latter should be higher, in case of poor adrenal reserve its either the same or standing gets even lower if im right, mine drops or stays same, never higher, also when you get postural hypotension good one i think, its when you get lightheaded when standing quickly, i got it too few times a day, not severely but its there.

 

[FitnessMike]

"T3 interact with cortisol production and even in micro-doses it still can be a problem for a majority of people with subpar adrenals function."

 

[FitnessMike]

@FitnessMike Hi, how are you? I have been taking Cortef for about 2 weeks at a dose of 10 mg/day. At first I divided the tablet into 4 equal parts of 2.5 mg, and from these 10 mg I didn't feel anything especially, then I tried to divide into 3 parts 5/2.5/2.5 and it seems that the first dose of 5 mg gives a better effect than 2.5, so I think I will try to gradually rise to 15-20 mg. for the experiment and if it doesn't give affect, then just as gradually go down. Also I try to balance these hydrocortisone with 5-10 mg of DHEA, although I didn't test my levels, so I don't know is that good idea because it can suppress my already low cortisol.
Also on the background I try again to add 1-2 mg of T3 witch I stopped, it seems it take away my brain fog a little.

Keep us updated

 

[Ihor]

Keep us updated

So far unchanged at a dose of 10 mg. I get distracted, try new things, add/remove new variables into the equation and don't want to play with so many at once.
I had pantothenic acid (vitamin B5) lying around in my closet, which I had been drinking in small doses for several years. I remembered that b5 is a precursor of cortisol for the adrenal glands and also remembered a study where it significantly increases the synthesis of cortisol in doses of 1500 mg/day (3 doses of 500 mg.) and decided to finish pills. I'm not sure if this is exactly the effect of cortisol, but after taking these dosages yesterday and today, I was very surprised when it raised my body temperature and pulse, almost like some hydrocortisone. It is a pity that the capsules are running out, the remaining is enough for a few days. If this is correct, I wonder what equivalent of hydrocortisone this dose gave me b5. These studies will need to be reread.
I also have the assumption that I am toxic to copper and iron. Earlier, I often met information that with adrenal insufficiency/low cortisol, the body can't synthesize ceruloplasmin, therefore, copper doesn't bind and is not absorbed. Without ceruloplasmin, the removal of copper and iron from cells through non-functional ferroportin is also impaired. One of the key factors in copper absorption are two proteins, ATP7A and ATP7B, which are also dependent on the thyroid, which is also turned off by low cortisol. Therefore, in a place with non-functional copper, the body is also overloaded with iron, which is partially under the control of copper and it seems that this also becomes both a consequence of this and the cause of non-functional adrenal, thyroid glands. I measured my ceruloplasmin for several years and it was always low. I would like to know my adrenal glands were working all this time, I have never tested them, but judging by the functional symptoms, they are not. I wonder if adding hydrocortisone and possibly thyroid later will correct this cascade slowly.
As for t3, I put it off again for later, This gives me all the negative symptoms of overstimulation that we already know here. If I get any improvement from cortisone, I will try Paul Robinson's CT3M again, maybe then my body will be more ready for it. Until these conditions were met, the introduction of a thyroid supplement didn't bring me any benefit.

 

[ddjd]

has anyone considered the idea that very poor insulin sensitivity causes a bad response to T3??

 

[FitnessMike]

So far unchanged at a dose of 10 mg. I get distracted, try new things, add/remove new variables into the equation and don't want to play with so many at once.
I had pantothenic acid (vitamin B5) lying around in my closet, which I had been drinking in small doses for several years. I remembered that b5 is a precursor of cortisol for the adrenal glands and also remembered a study where it significantly increases the synthesis of cortisol in doses of 1500 mg/day (3 doses of 500 mg.) and decided to finish pills. I'm not sure if this is exactly the effect of cortisol, but after taking these dosages yesterday and today, I was very surprised when it raised my body temperature and pulse, almost like some hydrocortisone. It is a pity that the capsules are running out, the remaining is enough for a few days. If this is correct, I wonder what equivalent of hydrocortisone this dose gave me b5. These studies will need to be reread.
I also have the assumption that I am toxic to copper and iron. Earlier, I often met information that with adrenal insufficiency/low cortisol, the body can't synthesize ceruloplasmin, therefore, copper doesn't bind and is not absorbed. Without ceruloplasmin, the removal of copper and iron from cells through non-functional ferroportin is also impaired. One of the key factors in copper absorption are two proteins, ATP7A and ATP7B, which are also dependent on the thyroid, which is also turned off by low cortisol. Therefore, in a place with non-functional copper, the body is also overloaded with iron, which is partially under the control of copper and it seems that this also becomes both a consequence of this and the cause of non-functional adrenal, thyroid glands. I measured my ceruloplasmin for several years and it was always low. I would like to know my adrenal glands were working all this time, I have never tested them, but judging by the functional symptoms, they are not. I wonder if adding hydrocortisone and possibly thyroid later will correct this cascade slowly.
As for t3, I put it off again for later, This gives me all the negative symptoms of overstimulation that we already know here. If I get any improvement from cortisone, I will try Paul Robinson's CT3M again, maybe then my body will be more ready for it. Until these conditions were met, the introduction of a thyroid supplement didn't bring me any benefit.

Thanks for keeping us updated.

That's really interesting about vit b5, actually, when i saw you mentioned i had quick look thru my boxes with supplements lol and found now foods b5 250x500mg, i think i never give it a go because i read that it caused the hair to fall outt, but i will surely now try it out now.

I also stopped thyroid and with it heart palps and muscle twitches stopped as well. With regards to HC, i honestly do not feel anything from 2.5mg twice a day, maybe because i am 6ft.6 115kg weight hmm...

I'm still thinking if i should do short synacthen test to see how my adrenals are and how much ACTH my brain stimulates because i didn't go far into HC so i could probably still do it, but endo said its difficult to arrange an appointment because of corona. Anyway, i plan to take 5mg around 8am, and another 5mg early afternoon.

Regarding iron, funny thing, my iron saturation is borderline high, so that would explain your premise about iron.

Also maybe its worth for us to take low dose t4, i never tried t4 itself, and I was rereading one of my old posts and one member here said as quoted below.

"As for the thyroid, sometimes experimenting without any T3 short term and using small amount of T4 only can help for certain cortisol issues. As long as the T4 dose is kept «physiological»....by that, I mean between 12,5 to 25 mcg of T4 max."

"T3 interact with cortisol production and even in micro-doses it still can be a problem for a majority of people with subpar adrenals function."

That would explain why even a fraction of medication containing t3 causes twitches/palpitations from increased adrenaline in my case.

 

[FitnessMike]

has anyone considered the idea that very poor insulin sensitivity causes a bad response to T3??

no I never

 

[FitnessMike]

"These results clearly demonstrated that pantothenic acid supplementation stimulates the ability of adrenal cells in male rats to secrete corticosterone and progesterone. Additionally, these results also showed that pantothenic acid supplementation induced adrenal hyperresponsiveness to ACTH stimulation, and PRL further stimulated adrenal sensitivity to ACTH."

Effects of pantothenic acid supplementation on adrenal steroid secretion from male rats - PubMed

The effects of pantothenic acid-supplementation on the adrenal secretion of corticosterone and progesterone in male rats were investigated using an in vitro cell culture system. Male rats at 21 d of age were given 0.03% pantothenic acid in their drinking water for 9 weeks. After 9 weeks of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[FitnessMike]

"""But for most others, supporting the adrenals with adaptogens and slowly raising thyroid levels can also work. This is because thyroid and corticosteroid-binding globulin (CBG) have an inverse relationship. As thyroid levels come up, CBG goes down, leaving more cortisol free. Cortisol is also released from CBG as body temperature rises, and body temperature correlates positively with thyroid levels. So raising thyroid can naturally raise cortisol levels. [1,13] But any increases must be done slowly–weekly thyroid increases are too much too soon and do not give the body time to adjust. Some people are so sensitive that they can only raise 1/4 grain of desiccated thyroid or 12.5 mcg of T4 every 12 weeks. If someone has poor T4 to T3 conversion, then taking smaller amounts of T3 throughout the day (including bedtime), instead of once a day, will also give all organs, including the adrenals, a more steady supply of energy to perform their function."""

"""Adrenal fatigue seems common in those with thyroid problems. Are the adrenals somehow connected to the thyroid? Apparently they are, because without adequate thyroid levels, the adrenals themselves atrophy. Rats were given anti-thyroid drugs like carbimazole or methimazole; these drugs are used to lower thyroid levels in Graves’ patients. [14] Their adrenals atrophied when hypothyroid, and the adrenal cortex actually shrank in size, especially the zona fasciculata, which is where cortisol is produced. As expected, blood cortisol levels were lower in the hypothyroid rats. Interestingly, Brewer’s yeast, which is high in B vitamins and selenium, appeared to have a protective effect on the adrenal gland, somewhat offsetting the methimazole-induced atrophy. [16] Thyroidectomized dogs exhibited the same effect–their cortisol levels dropped significantly only seven days post-thyroidectomy. Their adrenocortical function was restored after they were given levothyroxine"""

http://www.tiredthyroid.com/hc.html

 

[Vileplume]

I’ve been trying small T3 doses throughout the day (2-3 mg every three hours) and a bit of t4 before bed. Daily it’s about 14 mcg T3 and 6 mcg t4, and so far it has increased my heart rate a bit, and hasn’t raised temperature nor lowered it. However, I feel more energized. Last night I got lots of deep sleep. Gonna stick with this for a bit, see how it goes.

Also taking magnesium, selenium, adrenal cortex, and cyproheptadine. I just saw my endocrinologist and she was appalled that I was taking t3–she thought it was a terrible idea. She told me that my body temperature of 97.5 is normal, citing 96-98 as the “normal range.” 96-98 as the normal range body temperature? So people are walking around in the 96’s thinking that’s normal. Oh no.

 

[FitnessMike]

I’ve been trying small T3 doses throughout the day (2-3 mg every three hours) and a bit of t4 before bed. Daily it’s about 14 mcg T3 and 6 mcg t4, and so far it has increased my heart rate a bit, and hasn’t raised temperature nor lowered it. However, I feel more energized. Last night I got lots of deep sleep. Gonna stick with this for a bit, see how it goes.

Also taking magnesium, selenium, adrenal cortex, and cyproheptadine. I just saw my endocrinologist and she was appalled that I was taking t3–she thought it was a terrible idea. She told me that my body temperature of 97.5 is normal, citing 96-98 as the “normal range.” 96-98 as the normal range body temperature? So people are walking around in the 96’s thinking that’s normal. Oh no.

Nice, me too was testing low doses tyromix, seems like i slowly will start tolerating thyroid. Yesterday i took 6mg t3+12mg t4 before sleep and had no adrenaline rushes, then woke up after 4 hours! which is big for me and fit bit showed loads of deep sleep in this span of time, but then i got brave and took same amount(2 drops) at 2am and i could not fall asleep anymore, I should have taken 1 drop. I got CT3m book today and will be slowly increasing doses before bed and in the middle of the night, should be easy for me as i always wake up at night at least 2 times. CT3M makes so much sense, if you haven't got enough ft3 at night when it should be at its highest, then your adrenals/brain or whatever else is involved doesnt have enough ft3 to do its job and stimulate optimal cortisol. I really think that raising your t3 at night can help big time.

Also, i am building today red light and reading this Red Light Therapy / LLLT Cures Hypothyroid? , there are guys who supposedly fixed hypo with good lights, 150£ for the light but who cares.

Let's keep each other updated here, we got this mate.

 

[Lucas]

Nice, me too was testing low doses tyromix, seems like i slowly will start tolerating thyroid. Yesterday i took 6mg t3+12mg t4 before sleep and had no adrenaline rushes, then woke up after 4 hours! which is big for me and fit bit showed loads of deep sleep in this span of time, but then i got brave and took same amount(2 drops) at 2am and i could not fall asleep anymore, I should have taken 1 drop. I got CT3m book today and will be slowly increasing doses before bed and in the middle of the night, should be easy for me as i always wake up at night at least 2 times. CT3M makes so much sense, if you haven't got enough ft3 at night when it should be at its highest, then your adrenals/brain or whatever else is involved doesnt have enough ft3 to do its job and stimulate optimal cortisol. I really think that raising your t3 at night can help big time.

Also, i am building today red light and reading this Red Light Therapy / LLLT Cures Hypothyroid? , there are guys who supposedly fixed hypo with good lights, 150£ for the light but who cares.

Let's keep each other updated here, we got this mate.

Hello.
Thanks to this post I started treatment with hydrocortisone, because I can't tolerate T3, it acts like melatonin in me, I die of sleep when I take it. Up to 2.5 mcg of t3 makes me sick. With T4 alone I feel good, I react on the first dose of T4, the problem is that I have a symptom that won't go away, which is the stiffness in my two knees and that stiffness is associated with the thyroid because the first time I tried NDT the stiffness went away automatically, but it only lasted one day, so I think my problem is related to cortisol.

I am taking 5 mg of hydrocortisone in the morning and another 2.5 mg before 1 pm and even then I am not able to tolerate t3.

My temperature has a strange behavior.

I wake up at 36 degrees Celsius, stay in the day at 36.5 and only from 7 pm I reach 36.8, but I never reach 37. And interestingly, I feel much better at night, with my body hot and full of energy. Even so, I don't have insomnia, because I take magnesium before bed and sleep well.

Could it be that my problem is that my cortisol is low during the day and only at night does it become normal? How do I reverse this behavior? Do I have to take something that reduces cortisol at night so that it gets back up in the morning when I wake up?
Thank you so much.

 

[FitnessMike]

Hello.
Thanks to this post I started treatment with hydrocortisone, because I can't tolerate T3, it acts like melatonin in me, I die of sleep when I take it. Up to 2.5 mcg of t3 makes me sick. With T4 alone I feel good, I react on the first dose of T4, the problem is that I have a symptom that won't go away, which is the stiffness in my two knees and that stiffness is associated with the thyroid because the first time I tried NDT the stiffness went away automatically, but it only lasted one day, so I think my problem is related to cortisol.

I am taking 5 mg of hydrocortisone in the morning and another 2.5 mg before 1 pm and even then I am not able to tolerate t3.

My temperature has a strange behavior.

I wake up at 36 degrees Celsius, stay in the day at 36.5 and only from 7 pm I reach 36.8, but I never reach 37. And interestingly, I feel much better at night, with my body hot and full of energy. Even so, I don't have insomnia, because I take magnesium before bed and sleep well.

Could it be that my problem is that my cortisol is low during the day and only at night does it become normal? How do I reverse this behavior? Do I have to take something that reduces cortisol at night so that it gets back up in the morning when I wake up?
Thank you so much.

First thing first do cortisol saliva test

 

[FitnessMike]

I’ve been trying small T3 doses throughout the day (2-3 mg every three hours) and a bit of t4 before bed. Daily it’s about 14 mcg T3 and 6 mcg t4, and so far it has increased my heart rate a bit, and hasn’t raised temperature nor lowered it. However, I feel more energized. Last night I got lots of deep sleep. Gonna stick with this for a bit, see how it goes.

Also taking magnesium, selenium, adrenal cortex, and cyproheptadine. I just saw my endocrinologist and she was appalled that I was taking t3–she thought it was a terrible idea. She told me that my body temperature of 97.5 is normal, citing 96-98 as the “normal range.” 96-98 as the normal range body temperature? So people are walking around in the 96’s thinking that’s normal. Oh no.

How is it going so far? how much Cortex are you taking?

I remember that first time i took adrenal cortex it literally got my pulse from 55 to 80 in few days and it was this way for few weeks, then eventually pulse came back to norm, i either built some tolerance to whaever it was raised my pulse, or it cortisol inside the cortex capsule helped with accumulated thyroid in the body from previous supplementation, i could not replicate this again.

 

[FitnessMike]

So far unchanged at a dose of 10 mg. I get distracted, try new things, add/remove new variables into the equation and don't want to play with so many at once.
I had pantothenic acid (vitamin B5) lying around in my closet, which I had been drinking in small doses for several years. I remembered that b5 is a precursor of cortisol for the adrenal glands and also remembered a study where it significantly increases the synthesis of cortisol in doses of 1500 mg/day (3 doses of 500 mg.) and decided to finish pills. I'm not sure if this is exactly the effect of cortisol, but after taking these dosages yesterday and today, I was very surprised when it raised my body temperature and pulse, almost like some hydrocortisone. It is a pity that the capsules are running out, the remaining is enough for a few days. If this is correct, I wonder what equivalent of hydrocortisone this dose gave me b5. These studies will need to be reread.
I also have the assumption that I am toxic to copper and iron. Earlier, I often met information that with adrenal insufficiency/low cortisol, the body can't synthesize ceruloplasmin, therefore, copper doesn't bind and is not absorbed. Without ceruloplasmin, the removal of copper and iron from cells through non-functional ferroportin is also impaired. One of the key factors in copper absorption are two proteins, ATP7A and ATP7B, which are also dependent on the thyroid, which is also turned off by low cortisol. Therefore, in a place with non-functional copper, the body is also overloaded with iron, which is partially under the control of copper and it seems that this also becomes both a consequence of this and the cause of non-functional adrenal, thyroid glands. I measured my ceruloplasmin for several years and it was always low. I would like to know my adrenal glands were working all this time, I have never tested them, but judging by the functional symptoms, they are not. I wonder if adding hydrocortisone and possibly thyroid later will correct this cascade slowly.
As for t3, I put it off again for later, This gives me all the negative symptoms of overstimulation that we already know here. If I get any improvement from cortisone, I will try Paul Robinson's CT3M again, maybe then my body will be more ready for it. Until these conditions were met, the introduction of a thyroid supplement didn't bring me any benefit.

Hi, any update?