""Low Serum AM Cortisol The Cause Of My Problems?""

Vileplume

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
1,697
Location
California
How is it going so far? how much Cortex are you taking?

I remember that first time i took adrenal cortex it literally got my pulse from 55 to 80 in few days and it was this way for few weeks, then eventually pulse came back to norm, i either built some tolerance to whaever it was raised my pulse, or it cortisol inside the cortex capsule helped with accumulated thyroid in the body from previous supplementation, i could not replicate this again.

Hey man. I’m doing well. When I tried NDT months ago, it gave me a stress reaction after two days, with super high heart rate and feelings of panic. So I backed off for a bit and addressed my high adrenaline with more salt and magnesium. Then I added in T3 (cynomel) which further lowered my heart rate in a good way. The adrenal cortex never did much, the above listed things helped more.

Then, last week, I started adding in bits of NDT (tyromax) throughout the day. I realized that for me, the key is to not let NDT elevate my heart rate above 90, so I only supplement the NDT when my heart rate is low. I started waking up at 3 am to dose 2 drops of tyromax in a circadian fashion, because 3 am is when my heart rate reaches its lowest. I also supplement the NDT before bed because that’s when my HR is also low, below 75. This minimizes chances of an adrenaline attack. So far, I’m making decent progress. It’s been 1.5 weeks on NDT and I can tolerate almost a full grain, with a calm heart rate.

Big things that helped were salt, magnesium, and using T3 first—these three lowered my adrenaline enough to try NDT again.

How are you doing?
 
OP
FitnessMike

FitnessMike

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
1,647
I started waking up at 3 am to dose 2 drops of tyromax in a circadian fashion, because 3 am is when my heart rate reaches its lowest. I also supplement the NDT before bed because that’s when my HR is also low, below 75
Just checked my Fitbit and seems that my lowest pulse is around 3 am too and actually this is when i wake up every night 2nd time, i was trying to pop tyromix at this 3 am but it wakes me up, unless its only 1 drop, doesn't it wake you up when you take it at 3am?. I Do take before bed tyromix too and seems that i have more deep sleep also, i will try to maybe slowly increase 3am dose. Your pulse is really good, mine is 58-60 thru the day and in the evening gets lower... at night its below 50, one drop of tyromix every few hours is max what i tolerate, anything over this i got muscle twitches as a result of high adrenaline from too high levels of the hormone in the blood.
 

Vileplume

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
1,697
Location
California
Just checked my Fitbit and seems that my lowest pulse is around 3 am too and actually this is when i wake up every night 2nd time, i was trying to pop tyromix at this 3 am but it wakes me up, unless its only 1 drop, doesn't it wake you up when you take it at 3am?. I Do take before bed tyromix too and seems that i have more deep sleep also, i will try to maybe slowly increase 3am dose. Your pulse is really good, mine is 58-60 thru the day and in the evening gets lower... at night its below 50, one drop of tyromix every few hours is max what i tolerate, anything over this i got muscle twitches as a result of high adrenaline from too high levels of the hormone in the blood.
It does wake me up when I take it at 3am, but from a few testimonials on thyroid blog sites, it seems that this goes away after a bit. At this point, the NDT still helps my mornings more than that extra few hours of sleep would. My sleep has deepened so far with the addition of thyroid, although it has made it more difficult to fall asleep. Also, with the caveat that my gut isn't irritated -- that will mess up my sleep even with adequate thyroid.

Have you tried t3 only? Taking cynomel alone (just teeny-tiny bits, starting just 1.5 mcg's every three hours) had better effects on my adrenaline than tyromix did. The t3-only allowed me to gradually increase the t4:t3 ratio, beginning with all t3 and no t4.
 
OP
FitnessMike

FitnessMike

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
1,647
It does wake me up when I take it at 3am, but from a few testimonials on thyroid blog sites, it seems that this goes away after a bit. At this point, the NDT still helps my mornings more than that extra few hours of sleep would. My sleep has deepened so far with the addition of thyroid, although it has made it more difficult to fall asleep. Also, with the caveat that my gut isn't irritated -- that will mess up my sleep even with adequate thyroid.

Have you tried t3 only? Taking cynomel alone (just teeny-tiny bits, starting just 1.5 mcg's every three hours) had better effects on my adrenaline than tyromix did. The t3-only allowed me to gradually increase the t4:t3 ratio, beginning with all t3 and no t4.
I have got the book and he did mention that it takes time for the brain to get used to this mid-night dose, first time i tried it at 3 am with 2 drops of tyromix i remember I had a big surge in cortisol instantly, felt amazing, like training in the gym LOL, a clear wave of energy like I was ready to get up. How many days are you already in ?

I tried t3 only during the day and the night, its the same result, muscle twitches that tells me that I am overdosing unless i stick to one drop,i think ill give it a shot now for a longer while with 3 am dosing. He's saying in the book that bedtime does hinder midnight one in the book.

Its ok for me to take drop every like 3 hours, but of course it doesn't improve my symptoms much as at this point in very hypothyroid, I will try T3CM for a week knowing that im not falling back to sleep lol and give it fair shot.

I also do red light on my thyroid twice a day but seem it doesn't raise my pulse etc whatsoever, suboptimal cortisol or something else that im not aware of must be a limiting factor.
 
Last edited:

Ihor

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2018
Messages
216
Hi, any update?
Hi, i don't write often because there are not many changes. So I gradually got to 20mg of hydrocortisone per day, but I didn't get any noticeable improvement, so I dropped back to 10mg and now I don't know if I should gradually reduce to discontinuation, or play again with the dose adding other variables such as T3, T4.

I did the tests yesterday, here are the results:
TSH: 1,01 μMO/mL - (ref: 0,3 - 4,5);
T4f: 1,39 ng/dL - (ref: 0,89 - 1,72);
T3f: 3,75 pg/mL - (ref: 2,0 - 4,2);
Cortisol (morning blood): 213.56 ng/mL (ref: 57,2 - 194,2 ( 8:00 - 10:00 am));
DHEA: 146,8 μkg/dL 85,0 - (ref: 85,0 - 690,0);
Ceruloplasmin: 22 μg/dL - (ref: 22 - 61);
Cholesterol total: 6,55 μmol/L - (ref: <5,0);
Ferritin: 63,4 ng/mL - (ref: 25,0 - 350,0);
Prolactin, progesterone, estradiol (E2), Testosterone free and total are well.

I don’t know if this serum cortisol test is correct, but here it seems a little higher than normal, that day I woke up in the morning a little energized, but but not rested, and I didn't take hydrocortisone the day before the test his half-life time is some hours it shouldn't affect on test, and I stopped T3 and other supplements in a week before the test. Judging by the analysis of the thyroid by the numbers, then it looks normal, but by the symptoms I am hypo. By the way, it seems that my T3 intolerance has stopped, and now I don't seem to react to it at all.
What I'm looking at here with suspicion is low ceruloplasmin, which has been that way for three years since the first test, i got a lot of copper before, and high cholesterol.
Actually, the fact that my thyroid, cortisol seem to be normal and I do not respond to T3 confuses me.
 
OP
FitnessMike

FitnessMike

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
1,647
You guys know that vitamin D can restore your sensitivity to cortisol right?
Well, my Vit d levels are very good, if the guy from CT3M is right, our pituitary needs the highest level of t3 in the last 4h of sleep (like in peoples with healthy thyroid), so it can properly stimulate cortisol from the adrenals.
 

Ihor

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2018
Messages
216
This time I did serum cortisol test, not saliva because i wanted to test my general cortisol production after night for showing general adrenal activity, not only free fraction as like saliva test, so if follow these cortisol, dhea results and aldosterone mounth ago my adrenal is not in bad condition, It has been a 45 days since my hydrocortisone intake, if you can compare the previous low saliva test and the current normal blood test, can this increase in total cortisol be mistaken for the restoration of endogenous production caused by exogenous cortisone support. If my morning saliva test is already normal, or then my test would be serum, then I could compare, well, if the adrenal glands really recovered a little, why now there is no response from T3, perhaps it is not the main problem.

E-mailed Danny about them and referred to Rays response on them.

"I don't think saliva hormone tests are reliable. They are a convenient way to see whether the changes of cortisol during the day follow the normal pattern, but for judging its adequacy in an absolute sense I wouldn't pay any attention to them, since the saliva is subject to many influences that don't have much to do with the blood and other fluids. The hormones in the urine are mostly glucuronidated or sulfated, and so represent liver metabolism more than hormonal effects. Total cortisol is good. Some articles below discuss the problems with the 'free hormone' hypothesis."
 
Last edited:
OP
FitnessMike

FitnessMike

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
1,647
This time I did serum cortisol test, not saliva because i wanted to test my general cortisol production after night for showing general adrenal activity, not only free fraction as like saliva test, so if follow these cortisol, dhea results and aldosterone mounth ago my adrenal is not in bad condition, It has been a 45 days since my hydrocortisone intake, if you can compare the previous low saliva test and the current normal blood test, can this increase in total cortisol be mistaken for the restoration of endogenous production caused by exogenous cortisone support. If my morning saliva test is already normal, or then my test would be serum, then I could compare, well, if the adrenal glands really recovered a little, why now there is no response from T3, perhaps it is not the main problem.
so what happens when you take t3?

did you see this ?
 

Ihor

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2018
Messages
216
so what happens when you take t3?

did you see this ?
Yes, but it seems I have already checked all these factors and there was not much to complain about. Look, I looked at the hormone results again and it seems that the reference values that the lab refers to are not entirely correct:

IndicationResultUnitsNorms
Progesterone0.85ng/mlmale: 0,23 - 1,50
Estradiol (Е2)77.03pg/mlmale: < 87,0
Testosterone4.83ng/ml2,2 - 10,5
Testosterone free27.16pg/mlmale: 15,0 - 50,0
DHEA-S 146.8μg/dLmale: 21-30 y.: 85,0 - 690,0;

Normal values for my age (I'm 27 y.o.), which are referenced by other sources on the internet, indicate the numbers:

Estradiol: 10-40 pg/mL.
Testosterone free: 47-293 pg/mL.
DHEA: 280-640 µg/dL.

Is it actually my free testosterone and dhea at the bottom, and estrogen is higher than normal?
 
Last edited:
OP
FitnessMike

FitnessMike

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
1,647
Yes, but it seems I have already checked all these factors and there was not much to complain about. Look, I looked at the hormone results again and it seems that the reference values that the lab refers to are not entirely correct:

IndicationResultUnitsNorms
Progesterone0.85ng/mlmale: 0,23 - 1,50
Estradiol (Е2)77.03pg/mlmale: < 87,0
Testosterone4.83ng/ml2,2 - 10,5
Testosterone free27.16pg/mlmale: 15,0 - 50,0
DHEA-S 146.8μg/dLmale: 21-30 y.: 85,0 - 690,0;

Normal values for my age (I'm 27 y.o.), which are referenced by other sources on the internet, indicate the numbers:

Estradiol: 10-40 pg/mL.
Testosterone free: 47-293 pg/mL.
DHEA: 280-640 µg/dL.

Is it actually my free testosterone and dhea at the bottom, and estrogen is higher than normal?
I would never look at the reference ranges and would always look for the optimal levels range on from different sources, but i think you might be right they do seem low if you compare them to ranges you found.
 

jomamma007

Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2021
Messages
68
Location
California
Yes, but it seems I have already checked all these factors and there was not much to complain about. Look, I looked at the hormone results again and it seems that the reference values that the lab refers to are not entirely correct:

IndicationResultUnitsNorms
Progesterone0.85ng/mlmale: 0,23 - 1,50
Estradiol (Е2)77.03pg/mlmale: < 87,0
Testosterone4.83ng/ml2,2 - 10,5
Testosterone free27.16pg/mlmale: 15,0 - 50,0
DHEA-S 146.8μg/dLmale: 21-30 y.: 85,0 - 690,0;

Normal values for my age (I'm 27 y.o.), which are referenced by other sources on the internet, indicate the numbers:

Estradiol: 10-40 pg/mL.
Testosterone free: 47-293 pg/mL.
DHEA: 280-640 µg/dL.

Is it actually my free testosterone and dhea at the bottom, and estrogen is higher than normal?
Those secondary ranges are definitely more realistic and optimal, however taking some TRT won't fix all of your problems. I'm around the same age as you with very similar bloodwork, tried TRT, Thyroid, Hydrocortisone with Aldosterone, still never figured it out. Based on your bloods, you're low thyroid with lower progesterone, dhea--s etc but fixing that problem for us seems impossible. I've found eating frequent meals throughout the day balanced with protein carbs and fat (and dense meals, not milk and sugar) has made a big difference. Eating within an hour of waking, before coffee, and having a snack before bed helps too. A lot of things in kate deerings book have helped, but honestly I'm not sure what to do. It seems we just got the ***t end of the stick.

I'm sure you can take some TRT, and some thyroid and feel a bit better, but to ever feel healthy at this point is a reach. I think really paying attention to what foods you eat and supplements as well because intestinal irritation is a gigantic thing that can go overlooked.

Also I wouldn't hyper focus on ceruloplasmin, just eat liver and oysters weekly.
 

Ihor

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2018
Messages
216
Those secondary ranges are definitely more realistic and optimal, however taking some TRT won't fix all of your problems. I'm around the same age as you with very similar bloodwork, tried TRT, Thyroid, Hydrocortisone with Aldosterone, still never figured it out. Based on your bloods, you're low thyroid with lower progesterone, dhea--s etc but fixing that problem for us seems impossible. I've found eating frequent meals throughout the day balanced with protein carbs and fat (and dense meals, not milk and sugar) has made a big difference. Eating within an hour of waking, before coffee, and having a snack before bed helps too. A lot of things in kate deerings book have helped, but honestly I'm not sure what to do. It seems we just got the ***t end of the stick.

I'm sure you can take some TRT, and some thyroid and feel a bit better, but to ever feel healthy at this point is a reach. I think really paying attention to what foods you eat and supplements as well because intestinal irritation is a gigantic thing that can go overlooked.

Also I wouldn't hyper focus on ceruloplasmin, just eat liver and oysters weekly.
Thank you for your answer. Yes, I have already tried hydrocortisone, t3, ndt, progesterone, dhea, exemestane for lowering estrogen (by my feeling now I already quite well recognize things that increase estrogen). I did not try only TRT for fear of the risk of shutdown, but once I bought bull eggs and cooked them, I don't know how much testosterone they contain, at first I felt an increase in energy but then estrogen symptoms such as lethargy, drowsiness followed.
With enough protein / calories I feel better than without them, but that’s all the benefits end, diet doesn’t solve my problems.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom