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Long term DHEA supplementation doubles androgens and progesterone in males

Mauritio

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Feb 26, 2018
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3,833
I'm not sure if this study has been posted before , at least I haven found anything under the "DHEA" tag.
Anyways, it's always good to have more in vivo evidence for peaty substances and what they do in real life.

This study gave aging men with partial androgen deficiency (58-69)the "low dose" of 25mg DHEA for one year.

First of all the scores for tiredness , depression amd joint pain were less then half of what they were before the DHEA treatment.
So they also subjectively felt a difference .
Screenshot_20210625-215304_Drive.jpg


The hormonal values are also very interesting:
DHEA : tripled
DHEA-S : quadrupled
TESTOSTERONE (total): almost doubled
TESTOSTERONE FREE: more than doubled
DHT: doubled
PROG: doubled
ALLOPREGNANOLONE: almost doubled
ANDROSTENEDIONE: almost doubled
17ohP : doubled
SHBG : slightly decreased
E1: doubled
E2 : more than doubled
LH+FSH: slightly decreased
CORTISOL :stayed the same
GH: more than doubled
20210626_084327.jpgScreenshot_20210626-084411_Drive.jpgScreenshot_20210626-084425_Drive.jpg


It increases all beneficial hormones across the board , so I'm not surprised the men also subjectively felt a lot better .
The increase in estrogen is worrisome, although estrogen antagonists like progesterone, dht and allopregnanolone also increased just as much , so the rise in estrogen isn't unopposed.
To some degree the increase in E Will be because of increased T (aromatization) ,but I suspect the biggest part is from the large dosage . Since DHEA is known to be converted into estrogen in dosages above 5mg . So I'd suspect less estrogen and similar androgen increase if they kept the dosage lower .

Also noteworthy is the gradual increase in steroids. From months 0-6 there was a gradual increase in those hormones ,from 6-12 the increase was very little .
So if someone does an experiment with it , it might be worth to wait 6 months until you get a blood test , to see DHEAs full effects .


 
Last edited:

opethfeldt

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I take 12.5mg orally every day and I feel all the benefits without any noticeable estrogen increase. I think if they started using more reasonable dosages, they'd get even more impressive results from studies like this. I'm not sure why 25mg is considered a "low" or even normal dose when a healthy young person makes about 15mg per day.
 

Blaze

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Apr 25, 2020
Messages
379
What do you mean by that ?
What Highserotonin90 probably means by his question "Same study with only pregnenolone ?" is that he infers that you might achieve the same results by using pregnenolone instead of DHEA since all the "downstream" hormones including DHEA are made from pregnenolone.
 

Mauritio

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I take 12.5mg orally every day and I feel all the benefits without any noticeable estrogen increase. I think if they started using more reasonable dosages, they'd get even more impressive results from studies like this. I'm not sure why 25mg is considered a "low" or even normal dose when a healthy young person makes about 15mg per day.
Yes , this .
But when you look studies it's hard to find any in vivo ones that use less , most are with 50 or 100 mg . So in that sense it is low dose lol
 

Mauritio

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What Highserotonin90 probably means by his question "Same study with only pregnenolone ?" is that he infers that you might achieve the same results by using pregnenolone instead of DHEA since all the "downstream" hormones including DHEA are made from pregnenolone.
This I can work with:)

I agree , progesterone and pregnenolone can both raise DHEA.
I've said a few times already that I prefer low dose topical pregnenolone or lanolin for steroids. I just found this an interesting study, worth posting!
 

Mauritio

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Here's a similar study with 100mg DHEA daily .

"In both sexes, a 100 mg daily dose of DHEA restored serum DHEA levels to those of young adults and serum DS to levels at or slightly above the young adult range"

EDIT: reading the full study paints a different picture! while it did increase DHEA levels , in males 100 mg dhea did NOT change T or DHT levels !
Pretty interesting if you compare it to the original study of this thread.


"In men,
there was no change in serum levels of T or DHT..."

Weirdly estrogen didnt change as well .
So it seems 100mg DHEA is pretty ineffective at anything besides raising DHEA levels . No increase in estrogen, which is good ,but also no increase in androgens .
Although their estrogen was already high to begin with.
" In men, neither E1
(98 6 12 to 100 6 5 pmol/l) nor E2 (80 6 7 to 68 6 4 pmol/l)
levels changed significantly with DHEA administration.


 
Last edited:

Blaze

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Apr 25, 2020
Messages
379
Here's a similar study with 100mg DHEA daily .

"In both sexes, a 100 mg daily dose of DHEA restored serum DHEA levels to those of young adults and serum DS to levels at or slightly above the young adult range"

EDIT: reading the full study paints a different picture! while it did increase DHEA levels , in males 100 mg dhea did NOT change T or DHT levels !
Pretty interesting if you compare it to the original study of this thread.


"In men,
there was no change in serum levels of T or DHT..."

Weirdly estrogen didnt change as well .
So it seems 100mg DHEA is pretty ineffective at anything besides raising DHEA levels . No increase in estrogen, which is good ,but also no increase in androgens .
Although their estrogen was already high to begin with.
" In men, neither E1
(98 6 12 to 100 6 5 pmol/l) nor E2 (80 6 7 to 68 6 4 pmol/l)
levels changed significantly with DHEA administration.


Thanks for taking the time to post those interesting studies. I think we humans have a common flaw in that we often tend to go into overkill mode with supplements and think if a little is good then logic dictates more must be better. I learned the hard way and have found that smaller physiological doses of things yield benefits that often disappear with mega doses.
 
Last edited:

Mauritio

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Thanks for taking the time to post those interesting studies. I think we humans have a common flaw in that we often tend to go into overkill mode with supplements and think if a little is good then logic dictates more must be better. I learned the hard way and have found that smaller physiological doses of things yield benefits that often disappear with mega doses.
Yes same for me !
 

Hgreen56

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E1 and E2 are estrogens right? that are more than doubled to. no good.
i guess thats why Ray advised not more that 15mg a day
 
Last edited:

haidut

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Mar 18, 2013
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I'm not sure if this study has been posted before , at least I haven found anything under the "DHEA" tag.
Anyways, it's always good to have more in vivo evidence for peaty substances and what they do in real life.

This study gave aging men with partial androgen deficiency (58-69)the "low dose" of 25mg DHEA for one year.

First of all the scores for tiredness , depression amd joint pain were less then half of what they were before the DHEA treatment.
So they also subjectively felt a difference .
View attachment 24594


The hormonal values are also very interesting:
DHEA : tripled
DHEA-S : quadrupled
TESTOSTERONE (total): almost doubled
TESTOSTERONE FREE: more than doubled
DHT: doubled
PROG: doubled
ALLOPREGNANOLONE: almost doubled
ANDROSTENEDIONE: almost doubled
17ohP : doubled
SHBG : slightly decreased
E1: doubled
E2 : more than doubled
LH+FSH: slightly decreased
CORTISOL :stayed the same
GH: more than doubled
View attachment 24596View attachment 24597View attachment 24598


It increases all beneficial hormones across the board , so I'm not surprised the men also subjectively felt a lot better .
The increase in estrogen is worrisome, although estrogen antagonists like progesterone, dht and allopregnanolone also increased just as much , so the rise in estrogen isn't unopposed.
To some degree the increase in E Will be because of increased T (aromatization) ,but I suspect the biggest part is from the large dosage . Since DHEA is known to be converted into estrogen in dosages above 5mg . So I'd suspect less estrogen and similar androgen increase if they kept the dosage lower .

Also noteworthy is the gradual increase in steroids. From months 0-6 there was a gradual increase in those hormones ,from 6-12 the increase was very little .
So if someone does an experiment with it , it might be worth to wait 6 months until you get a blood test , to see DHEAs full effects .



Already posted, and I think more than once.

Also, here is why one would not want to take more than 15mg DHEA daily.

As far as using pregnenolone only - it may work.

That being said, adding just 5mg DHEA to the larger pregnenolone does drastically increases its effects and the conversion downstream.
@Highserotonin90
 

haidut

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Do we know if DHEA supplementation negatively affects fertility / sperm count?

No, it doesn't, even in massive doses (200mg daily), but I would still not take more than 15mg daily due to the risk of estrogen conversion.
 

Mauritio

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Thread starter
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Already posted, and I think more than once.

Also, here is why one would not want to take more than 15mg DHEA daily.

As far as using pregnenolone only - it may work.

That being said, adding just 5mg DHEA to the larger pregnenolone does drastically increases its effects and the conversion downstream.
@Highserotonin90
Cool! I guess I doesnt hurt to have it posted again . Because even when I looked for it to didnt show up. Thats why people should use the tags :)

Any idea on why 100 mg didn't raise estrogen?
 

Julian

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Dec 3, 2019
Messages
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Sounds interesting. I figure I'll try a dose of 15mg for a while and see what it brings me.

Would a combination of DHEA and preg, or progesterone be preferred?

I'm a 34-year-old male and I'm looking to lose weight. I'm currently not taking progesterone because I believe it can lead to weight gain. Would DHEA only be best when trying to lose weight? Or what other combo in what doses?
 

Healthia

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Nov 2, 2016
Messages
111
Here's a similar study with 100mg DHEA daily .

"In both sexes, a 100 mg daily dose of DHEA restored serum DHEA levels to those of young adults and serum DS to levels at or slightly above the young adult range"

EDIT: reading the full study paints a different picture! while it did increase DHEA levels , in males 100 mg dhea did NOT change T or DHT levels !
Pretty interesting if you compare it to the original study of this thread.


"In men,
there was no change in serum levels of T or DHT..."

Weirdly estrogen didnt change as well .
So it seems 100mg DHEA is pretty ineffective at anything besides raising DHEA levels . No increase in estrogen, which is good ,but also no increase in androgens .
Although their estrogen was already high to begin with.
" In men, neither E1
(98 6 12 to 100 6 5 pmol/l) nor E2 (80 6 7 to 68 6 4 pmol/l)
levels changed significantly with DHEA administration.


Pretty sure I read the same study a while back. The males were already on TRT if I remember correctly.
 

Mauritio

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Thread starter
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
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Pretty sure I read the same study a while back. The males were already on TRT if I remember correctly.
I cant get the full text anymore , so if you have it please share ,but from the abstract it doesn't seem like it:

"Subjects and design: Healthy non-obese age-advanced (50-65 yrs of age) men (n = 9) and women (n = 10) were randomized into a double-blind placebo-controlled cross-over trial. Sixteen subjects completed the one-year study of six months of placebo and six months of 100 mg oral DHEA daily."
 

Vajra

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No, it doesn't, even in massive doses (200mg daily), but I would still not take more than 15mg daily due to the risk of estrogen conversion.
That's a pretty tiny sample size. What are the known negative effects of coming off DHEA? Does it reduce production of DHEA itself? What about FSH?
I cant get the full text anymore , so if you have it please share ,but from the abstract it doesn't seem like it:
Sci-Hub, homie.
 

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