K2/Caffeine For Liver Health

[Spondive]

Ok thanks I will read up on it more

 

[Peata]

Hi Peata!

I've been having this same trouble with my weight... but I have been taking K2 (specifically the Life Extension brand Super K, which is K1 and two forms of K2 without bad additives that so many of the K2 sups have). Have had some great progress with it. I had a lot of lower back pain (kidney pain?) before taking it and I have absolutely none now at all since Christmas. My temps are also always very high now (97.8 this morning on waking) and I only have to take a tiny bit of thyroid once in the morning and once in the evening to keep my temps up. My weight has been fluctuating but to be honest I had a few drinks during the holidays and that always sets me back (as well as the occasional dining out, even just once every two weeks will add back on 2-5 lbs).

I have been trying something new, where I figured that if weight gain ultimately is caused by the presence of too much PUFAs in the body (and liver?) I have been increasing my saturated fat dramatically (the low/no fat strategy only made me gain wait and feel terrible).

I have been going through about a full stick of butter every day (in coffee, warm milk, etc). As well as eating dishes that include heavy cream and the usual Peatian friendly things like fruit, potatoes, gelatinous meats, etc. such as fruit salad with whipped cream and ricotta cheese, or chicken fricassee with homemade stock. I have, as expected, lost about a pound every day that I have been doing this, so it is definitely not adding to the weight, it also raises my temperature and keeps it there longer. Also, saturated fat is slightly antiseptic, and some of the symptoms I notice after having high carb meals (such as bloating, etc.) are nonexistent with the high fat/high protien/high carb that I'm doing. I think the stabilizing effects of increased saturated fat intake can help stabilize mitochondria, eliminate PUFAs, aid in nutrient absorption and restore cellular integrity. I will report more on this as I continue doing it!

Thanks for the info on what you're doing. I've used high saturated fat last year, and this was during the time I gained all the weight, so not sure if I should increase it. as it is now, I try to keep fat under 40 g. total per day. The last few days I've been craving more fat such as dairy products (even ice cream which I've hardly touched since last winter). I'm going along with it while trying not to go overboard on the calories. For example, I'm putting some ice cream in a glass and using skim milk mixed in it to make a milkshake, which helps me satisfy the craving, but makes it lower fat and helps balance the fat and sugar with some protein). I'm glad to hear the higher fat food is working for you, and will look forward to updates. Are you watching calories or no? What gender and age?

 

[natedawggh]

Not watching calories at all. Even a slight deficit in calories (which I used to do easily 4 years go before I got sick) causes me huge discomfort and stress. When I tried to do either a low/no fat or decreased calories diet to lose weight last year (Peat friendly), I didn't lose any at all, and I lose weight up to a pound a day doing this Peat friendly high fat/high carb/high protein. I'm 34 and male.

 

[barbwirehouse]

Here are the supplements I'm taking, and not all of this is for the liver, but other things too.

D3 - 2,000 - several days on this
K2 - 15 mg - day #2
C - 1 g. - 2 months
Magnesium - 400 mg. - almost 3 weeks

I'm assuming C is caffeine? 1 gram is quite a lot. A strong dose is 150 - 400 mg. Are you aware?

Does anyone take the 15mg dosage? Seems like overkill.

I believe it is overkill, probably just to sell more product.

 

[jaa]

Thankfully it's easy to take 1/15 of the dose.

 

[tara]

Does anyone take the 15mg dosage? Seems like overkill.

My understandin is that for normal health maintenance, a few hundred mcg is plenty. I mg is good for protecting against a little regular aspirin intake. There are some studies showing 15mg and higher - eg 45mg doses may have beneficial effects for recovery from some kinds of system imbalances, including liver troubles. Probably safe at high doses, but expensive. Lately I've been taking 4-5 drops some days - maybe roughly every 2-3 days. Considering increasing to every day, if I can remember it, along with all the other things. :)

 

[jaa]

Thanks for that comprehensive explanation tara!

 

[Peata]

Lately I've slacked off on the D, but will try upping it again. Is there any other supp that high K will affect negatively?

thanks

I am making sure to get adequate calcium, plus I supplement D and magnesium. And probably good to get some vitamin A in there. I think it's important to have these vitamins and minerals that work together, rather than just take K alone. My concern would be that taking a lot of K without the others would cause an imbalance.

 

[Peata]

Peata - I'm also interested to see how this goes for you. I've been supplementing K2 for quite some time with good results, but only 5 mg. Maybe I will up my dose. It's done wonders for my teeth and bones - I can feel it.

If lower amount works for you, maybe it's not necessary to go higher.

 

[lindsay]

Peata - I'm also interested to see how this goes for you. I've been supplementing K2 for quite some time with good results, but only 5 mg. Maybe I will up my dose. It's done wonders for my teeth and bones - I can feel it.

If lower amount works for you, maybe it's not necessary to go higher.

Yes, but I don't have a gallbladder, so I'm not sure how much I'm actually absorbing. And I have issues with water weight all the time, despite taking thyroid. I feel there is something off with my liver, but not sure. It could just be in my head.

 

[Peata]

Here are the supplements I'm taking, and not all of this is for the liver, but other things too.

D3 - 2,000 - several days on this
K2 - 15 mg - day #2
C - 1 g. - 2 months
Magnesium - 400 mg. - almost 3 weeks

I'm assuming C is caffeine? 1 gram is quite a lot. A strong dose is 150 - 400 mg. Are you aware?

Does anyone take the 15mg dosage? Seems like overkill.

I believe it is overkill, probably just to sell more product.

Sorry, I meant Vitamin C. It's not Peaty to supplement it, but I'm doing an experiment.

 

[Peata]

Peata - I'm also interested to see how this goes for you. I've been supplementing K2 for quite some time with good results, but only 5 mg. Maybe I will up my dose. It's done wonders for my teeth and bones - I can feel it.

If lower amount works for you, maybe it's not necessary to go higher.

Yes, but I don't have a gallbladder, so I'm not sure how much I'm actually absorbing. And I have issues with water weight all the time, despite taking thyroid. I feel there is something off with my liver, but not sure. It could just be in my head.

I'm going to stop the supplements or at least cut back a lot, including K2, because I have medical tests coming up that I'm concerned could be affected, and realize I did not pick a good time to start a therapeutic regimen. At least people are talking about helping the liver which does seem like a root cause of some of our hormonal issues. I'm going to keep researching it.

 

[narouz]

Peata-
Sorry, coming to your thread very late.
In your original post,
"I wanted a thread for those who have done the protocol"
what protocol does that refer to?

 

[Peata]

Peata-
Sorry, coming to your thread very late.
In your original post,
"I wanted a thread for those who have done the protocol"
what protocol does that refer to?

I don't know if protocol was the right way to put it. It referred to some posts by haidut about caffeine and k2 good for liver. Here's one from the Surrogates for thyroid hormone thread:

I think my slightly elevated liver enzymes were the result of exhaustive exercise and muscle damage. Only my AST was elevated and I was told that it is actually used as a marker for muscle damage from overtraining, including damage to the heart muscle in heart attacks!
Anyways, I think my problems with metabolizing sugar were due to years of low-carb Paleo diet and "aerobic" exercise. Then then I switched to the Peat diet I piled on some weight like many other people here. Then my doctor asked me lose weight, which I never have a problem doing through exercise, but it seemed to make my sugar/insulin resistance worse due to burdening the liver even more. So, I stopped the running and started taking caffeine and K2 which normalized AST, lowered the other enzymes by 40%-50% and now I seem to be able to eat sugar without getting a sugar crash or storing as fat. My blood glucose levels also went down and my blood pressure normalized as well. Blood pressure was not high before but it would shoot high after not eating for a while, most likely due to adrenalin and cortisol. Now it is fairly stable.
Not sure what else I can add, but liver health seems to be crucial to handling sugar and I think it also affects thyroid. You can have a perfectly good thyroid producing T4 and if the live is not converting it into T3 then you have an issue no matter how much supplemental NDT you take. Also, with burdened liver the sugar you are loading up with hopes of converting more T4 into T3 will likely fatten up the liver instead. So, get liver working well and estrogen / sugar should not be an issue any more.

But remember nobody is prescribing anything for anyone else, just logging what worked or didn't for them.

 

[Peata]

here's panda's thread, viewtopic.php?t=5652

 

[4peatssake]

Have you considered pau d'arco, Peata?

I posted some additional Peat info about it yesterday on this thread. I'm late to the party here. :)

http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=67766#p67766

I'm on day 4 taking it as a tea, specifically to cleanse my liver. Also doing Thorne K2 and I already drink a lot of coffee.

 

[Peata]

Have you considered pau d'arco, Peata?

I posted some additional Peat info about it yesterday on this thread. I'm late to the party here. :)

http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=67766#p67766

I'm on day 4 taking it as a tea, specifically to cleanse my liver. Also doing Thorne K2 and I already drink a lot of coffee.

No but I'll look into it if this doesn't work. Ages ago, an herbalist had me on it for a while but I don't remember why.

 

[Peata]

I'm taking 2,500 - 5,000 K2 most days. Also increasinsg my caffeine. I've been taking around 250 mg. daily so far. I drank Red Bull for several days, but it tastes like Robitussin cough syrup. I have taurine capsules so I'm planning to use 1 g. of that with caffeine.

 

[charlie]

Peata are you seeing any results?

 

[Peata]

Peata are you seeing any results?

Not yet, but I feel i have a little program put together now that I can stick with and i don't see anything being so extreme as to affect medical tests (maybe i'm being paranoid but with what tests cost i don't want to risk skewing anything from a short-term protocol).

I'm using 2,500 - 5,000 k2 most days.
Vitamin A 15,000 iu (not everyday)
2,000 iu D3 (taken mid-day/early afternoon)
400 mg. magnesium (divided by a.m./p.m.)
1 g. Taurine (5th day with this)
Caffeine is going to be 250 mg. +
i'm also taking Vitamin C around 1 g.

Some of these I've been taking for a while now, others just started. Maybe i should add B vitamins and Zinc. I guess i'm looking not only at liver, but hormones too.

From my earlier experiments with haidut's surrogate thyroid suggestions, i know it's important to have plenty of food around the time of the caffeine, or else i get a headache or sick feeling or too shaky. Adding that the taurine does seem to take the harshness off the caffeine somewhat.