K2/Caffeine For Liver Health

[charlie]

Peata thank you for the update. I am hoping to have the caffeine, glycine and K2 by the end of the week and will get started. I am also taking magnesium and taurine like you.

I read one time that vitamin D is best taken in the morning, something about it interferes with sleep if taken later in the day. Not sure how true or not that is.

 

[Katty]

Any recommended brands for the taurine?

 

[khan]

Any recommended brands for the taurine?

Now brand taurine(powder) . u can get from iherb or amazon.

 

[Peata]

I've been using glycine and caffeine again as an experiment for about a week. I'm not using the K2. For one thing, since I don't use aspirin much these days. Maybe I'll start a separate thread if I get a result with the caffeine. I'm able to take more of it now than I was back in the winter.

 

[Peata]

I can take 200 mg. caffeine at once now without problem as long as I have adequate food/sugar beforehand.

Starting today I plan to increase my amounts (am taking about 400 mg. per day). I am already up to about 600 mg. today.

 

[Katty]

I might have missed this in another thread, but if the liver isn't working, caffeine isn't tolerated as well. And yet caffeine/coffee is supposed to help heal the liver. I'm having some trouble with that. I can only tolerate around 2-3oz of coffee per day. I always drink it after food and add cream/milk and sugar. But my body doesn't seem to be able to handle more.
I seem to have this problem with a lot of the "protocols." Things that are supposed to help a certain issue just aren't tolerated or cause other problems. Anyone have any luck tolerating much more caffeine when their body doesn't seem to handle it?

 

[tara]

post 111019 I seem to have this problem with a lot of the "protocols." Things that are supposed to help a certain issue just aren't tolerated or cause other problems. Anyone have any luck tolerating much more caffeine when their body doesn't seem to handle it?

I can't solve the problem, but my current approach is to just have a little of some of these things. For me at the moment, that means about 100mg aspirin and 1/2-1 cup decaf coffee a day.

 

[answersfound]

I might have missed this in another thread, but if the liver isn't working, caffeine isn't tolerated as well. And yet caffeine/coffee is supposed to help heal the liver. I'm having some trouble with that. I can only tolerate around 2-3oz of coffee per day. I always drink it after food and add cream/milk and sugar. But my body doesn't seem to be able to handle more.
I seem to have this problem with a lot of the "protocols." Things that are supposed to help a certain issue just aren't tolerated or cause other problems. Anyone have any luck tolerating much more caffeine when their body doesn't seem to handle it?

Yea. I used a combination supplement of 100 mg caffeine with 200 mg theanine from Amazon.com I used this after a meal twice a day for the first couple weeks and eventually I was able to tolerate 500 mg caffeine after a month, and even 800 mg per day now. The theanine prevents the adrenaline response from happening as long as you have sufficient fuel. before this, I could not tolerate caffeine at all.

 

[Peata]

I was taking theanine with caffeine and yes, it does work well. I'm off the theanine at the moment, but back on Cypro... Cyproheptadine is really great to take with caffeine.

I currently can take up to 300 mg. caffeine at once (after fueling up of course). I still don't usually take more than 800 mg. per day.

 

[Katty]

Thanks everyone for your responses.
Peata, How much cypro are you taking?

 

[mirc12354]

Anyone had any success with high caffeine + K2 combo? Once one gets to the point she/he can tolerate 1000 mg or more caffeine a day she/he is considered to have a decent liver function. So at that point one should continue with such high doses of caffeine indefinitly???

 

[Amazoniac]

What's New About K2, By C.Masterjohn

"While all K vitamins are fat-soluble, they are not all equally soluble in fat. Those with longer tails are more fat-soluble than those with shorter tails; for tails of equal length, saturated tails are more fat-soluble than unsaturated tails. K vitamins that are more fat-soluble are carried deeper in the core of chylomicrons, while those that are less fat-soluble are carried more toward the edges. Let’s take the three forms most commonly found in supplements as examples: K1, MK-4, and MK-7. We would expect to find MK-7 in the center of the chylomicron, MK-4 closer to the edges, and K1 in between the two (Schurgers and Vermeer, 2002).

Chylomicrons move in and out of the bloodstream rapidly, with a half-life of 15-20 minutes (César, 2006). This means that once we eat a meal, 95% of the chylomicrons that enter our blood are fully cleared in the first hour. Very few tissues actually take up the whole chylomicron. Instead, most tissues use the enzyme lipoprotein lipase (LPL) to siphon off its nutrients bit by bit. While LPL is best known for feeding the heart, skeletal muscle, and adipose tissue, it also feeds other tissues such as the lungs, kidneys, mammary glands, and brain (Kersten, 2014). LPL spreads across the capillary beds that feed our great diversity of tissues, allowing widespread access to the fat-soluble nutrients we ingest in a meal. Presumably, these tissues all have greater access to the nutrients carried closer to the edges of the chylomicrons, such as MK-4.

As these many tissues feast on the chylomicrons, the chylomicrons get smaller and smaller until they become chylomicron remnants. A small handful of tissues donate apolipoprotein E (ApoE) to the chylomicron remnants, and then use the LDL receptor and other related receptors to bind to the ApoE and take up the whole remnant. This allows them to score everything left in the particle right down to its chewy center. In this sense, ApoE is like the bait on a fishing line, and the receptor is like the hook. While the liver is best known for fishing out chylomicron remnants in this manner, our bones and spleen do as well. Our bones primarily derive nutrients through the uptake of whole lipoprotein particles, and take up about a fifth as many chylomicron remnants as our liver (Shearer, 2008). Thus, we should expect bone and liver to primarily have access to nutrients carried in the center of chylomicrons, including K1, but especially the MKs with longer tails, such as MK-7."

"If we compare the results of the 2012 study to the earlier 2002 study, we can surmise that the dose of MK-4 in the 2012 study was low enough that the initial LPL feast in the first hour fully distributed it to a variety of tissues so that it was all gone by two hours, and that MK-7 circulated for such a long time because, like MK-9, it was redistributed in LDL particles. We should expect from this that MK-4 is good at nourishing most tissues, but not very good at nourishing liver or bone. By contrast, we should expect that MK-7 is good at nourishing the liver and even better at nourishing bone.

At the present time, there is no direct support for this, but there are hints that it may be the case. Sato (2012) cited a Japanese paper as finding that 1.5 milligrams of MK-4, but not 500 μg, improved the carboxylation of osteocalcin. Not even the abstract seems to be available in English, so it is difficult to evaluate the study. Later, Nakamura (2014) showed that only 600 μg of MK-4 is needed, but in this study the researchers simply gave the same people higher and higher doses each week and waited for osteocalcin carboxylation to improve. For all we know, their lowest dose, 300 μg, would have worked if they had given it longer than a week. In seeming contrast to MK-4, MK-7 improves osteocalcin carboxylation with as little as 100 μg (Knapen, 2012; Inaba, 2015).

Placing these studies side by side, they seem to suggest that improvements in osteocalcin carboxylation require much lower doses of MK-7 than of MK-4. However, the studies had different designs and were conducted in different populations that may have had different nutritional needs and different responses to vitamin K supplementation. In fact, Inaba (2015) fed MK-7 for four weeks while Nakamura (2014) only fed each dose of MK-4 for one week. This alone could explain the difference. To date, no one has compared the osteocalcin response to MK-4 and MK-7 head-to-head."

 

[TubZy]

Peata thank you for the update. I am hoping to have the caffeine, glycine and K2 by the end of the week and will get started. I am also taking magnesium and taurine like you.

I read one time that vitamin D is best taken in the morning, something about it interferes with sleep if taken later in the day. Not sure how true or not that is.

Yes, because it can interfere with melatonin (just like sunshine should be exposed during the morning/day as part of the body's natural rythmn )

 

[charlie]

Yes, because it can interfere with melatonin.

Thank you sir.

 

[A. squamosa]

@Peata just wondering how you are with your liver health now, did you keep up with all these supplements?

 

[Mauritio]

@Peata just wondering how you are with your liver health now, did you keep up with all these supplements?

I'd like to know too. Since so many people start this protocol and then their results get lost along the way . I could use some success stories . I know haidut said he fixed his liver with the caffeine / k2 combo, but are there any others?

 

[Motif]

Would like to hear some updates too.
Did it work for you?

 

[Mauritio]

not really . dont really tolerate k2 or caffeine well . I am trying Inosine at the moment.

 

[Motif]

not really . dont really tolerate k2 or caffeine well . I am trying Inosine at the moment.

With success?

 

[Mauritio]

With success?

Cant say yet, Im on my third day. And according to haidut with the doses i take it takes several days to replenish the ATP levels and get the related benefits.