Improving Liver Function With Caffeine/K2/Taurine/Glycine And Haidut's Advice/supps

Tide

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I've been familiar with Peat's ideas for a couple of years now but only recently have things slowly began to come together. Male, mid 20s, have had hypo symptoms since mid-late teens with lowered libido, holding excess water, etc. Mainly through the work of Haidut who has really helped to clear up and consolidate things into an easy to understand way. I am still coming up on things that make me confused as to how I should approach liver function and supplement/diet change down the line

I've realized that since I have gluten intolerance I also probably also had liver inefficiency (I actually remember around 8 years ago or so I had a mildly fatty liver and I'm currently under 30) so it looks like the first step is to make my liver as efficient as possible. I started on vit k2 and caffeine 4 weeks ago now, and just around 7 days ago or so I was up to 1g a day when suddenly I started to experience what I think are high estrogen symptoms. Bloating, holding water, thighs became bigger, etc. I'm not sure if the vit k2 and caffeine made my stress hormones go up or what because I was consuming more than adequate amounts of organic OJ with white sugar, protein mainly from cheese sticks/eggs/cottage cheese and other items in my diet included sugar pepsi/grapes/occasional chipotle.

I've consumed activated charcoal and carrot salad/coconut oil as well to try and clear up as many endotoxins as possible.

Yesterday I purchased glycine and taurine from vitamin world, and took 3g of glycine and 1g of taurine. I also purchased solgar vitamin e (I am ordering Haidut's Vit. E product shortly) as a stand in and took about 4000 IU in a day (400IU a capsule) and today have noticed significantly less bloat.

So moving forward, I am consuming 800g of caffeine per day in caffeine pills, consuming mainly cheese sticks/organic OJ w/ white sugar/grapes/egss, 3-4g of glycine a day, 1-2g of Taurine per day, vitamin E, 15mg of k2 a day, and estroban 8 drops a day.


So with a brief overview, my main points of concern are:

1. How do I establish more regular bowel movements, or will this simply come with time? Right now I may have 3 or so days in a row where everything is good, and then a slow down of a couple of days

2. Is my perceived raised estrogen (manifesting itself with bloat/water retension/etc) a symptom of a sluggish liver that's struggling to remove endotoxin/process estrogen curable with continued use of caffeine to the tune of ~1g a day + vitamin k2 + taurine, + glycine, or are there some other steps I should take?

3. I have temporarily discontinued the use of niacinimide and aspirin while I look to make my liver more efficient, is there a point where I should reintroduce them?

4. I will begin using TocoVit (Haidut's strong Vit E supplement extracted from Wheat Germ Oil), should I look to use over 400iu a day indefinitely to keep estrogen under control and then discontinue at a certain point once liver function looks to have improved to take over estrogen detox in the body?

5. Will other supps help expedite this process? I assume a B-complex vitamin product such as Energin would, but at the same time it looks like I will be highly dependent on supplements which for me is fine if it's going to help fix things or get me up to speed faster; if not I'm open to keeping things as simple as possible
 
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tca300

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I tried to use caffeine for a while to help with my liver. I used 400mg a day for two months. All it did for me was make me 15lbs heavier, with the same calorie intake. So even though it's highly beneficial in some people, I don't think it's for everyone, unless your health is good already maybe? Ive found protein to be better for myself and liver issues. The liver uses keto acids made from the degradation of protein as fuel, so eating enough protein while keeping unsaturated fats low, and maybe some super saturated fat like hydrogenated coconut oil are helpful along with the caffeine, Taurine, glycine, etc.. T3, and lol caffeine make me go #2 within minutes. I use Phyllium husk for bulk, since I drink a gallon or more of OJ a day, it makes me go several times per day, although Ray had mentioned it can be constipating for some. Vitamin E can interfere with K2 so be careful with how much E you take, if you keep your PUFA low for the rest of your life vitamin E won't be needed and high quantities forever.
 
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Tide

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I remember reading in a past thread by Haidut that high doses of vitamin k2 or vitamin e should be consumed approximately 6-8 hours apart. So as of now I'm planning on consuming my initial dose of 400mg caffeine + 15mg k2 upon wakeup at 6am, and then high(ish) dose of vitamin e around 1-2pm, and then estroban around 8-10pm.

It's interesting that you noticed those effects from caffeine consumption; were you using vitamin k2 at the time? It sounds like it raised your stress hormones or perhaps you weren't getting enough vitamins/nutritents to help with the perceived higher metabolism that caffeine enables. That's my very amateur guess and something that I'm trying to avoid myself.
 
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My diet is very similar to yours, but for me, I noticed that I need to eat a bit more fiber to keep estrogen cleared. I'm much older than you (and a woman), so I really feel it if I get too much estrogen.....noticeably bloated, edema in face (eyelids get puffy), water weight gain, grumpy/irritable etc.

Even slight constipation for a day or two can start to bring on symptoms, I like to have two good BM's per day, else the estrogen laden bile builds up quickly. Adding more vegetables has helped and organic psyllium husk too if it gets really bad.....keep that sh*t moving, lol.:2cents:
 
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tca300

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@Tide ya I'm not sure why I responded that way, and yea I was taking K2 as well as caffeine.
 
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tca300

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@superhuman things are going good! My protein isn't near as high as yours, I went from about 120 grams per day up too about 180 grams. I felt fine, and my workouts seemed to be better, also my muscles seemed to stay hard for days after working them, which was new and cool. I'm really trying to keep my PUFA at 2 grams or less per day and found it was hard to do with the extra eggs, so now I'm down at about 168 grams, not including the fruit I eat. And yup!! I ordered me some tetracycline, but it's been in Mexico for almost two weeks, so I'm a little worried I might not get it and time soon.
 

superhuman

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@tca300 cool. I try keeping my protein to 100-150 now because its easier and cheaper and it should be enough.

Yeah me to, im searching the tracking number everyday and seems like its still in mexico.

I really hope that will fix things
 

sladerunner69

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1g of caffiene is a large dose in my book. I believe caffiene tolerance is highly variable from person to person. Much anecdotal evidence, on this forum and around the web, points to caffiene increasing bile production and irritating the gut and then resulting in serotonin and estrogen release. This seems to happen to me if I drink more than 100mg spread out in 3 doses through the day. I think the bile release explains why so many experience brain fog, listlessness, tiredness, shortness of breath with caffiene. Coffee seems to be something that only someone with high liver function can process and utilize correctly without ill effects. I would adve lowering the dosage to about 300mg daily and staying steady there and icnreasing slightly every couple of weeks. You may never be able to use 1g a day without bad side effects.
 
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Tide

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@Tide how is your liver now?

By the benchmark of being able to take 1G+ of caffeine/day and doing the k2, protocol, I’m doing fine.

However it never really “fixed” me. I’ve been on a mission to try and heal long standing inflammation in my stomach/intestines. Been using cyproheptadine + bcaa mix (from impower, not affiliated). People along with haidut and others mentioned that this was their initial catalyst to break long standing inflammation/seratonin issues and start the path towards healing.

Aside from that, I’m using b vitamins, fat solubles, and eating the recommended foods. I haven’t achieved a lasting feeling of lowered inflammation/seratonin yet, though i’ve been on cypro for just a little over a week.
 
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I tried to use caffeine for a while to help with my liver. I used 400mg a day for two months. All it did for me was make me 15lbs heavier, with the same calorie intake. So even though it's highly beneficial in some people, I don't think it's for everyone, unless your health is good already maybe? Ive found protein to be better for myself and liver issues. The liver uses keto acids made from the degradation of protein as fuel, so eating enough protein while keeping unsaturated fats low, and maybe some super saturated fat like hydrogenated coconut oil are helpful along with the caffeine, Taurine, glycine, etc.. T3, and lol caffeine make me go #2 within minutes. I use Phyllium husk for bulk, since I drink a gallon or more of OJ a day, it makes me go several times per day, although Ray had mentioned it can be constipating for some. Vitamin E can interfere with K2 so be careful with how much E you take, if you keep your PUFA low for the rest of your life vitamin E won't be needed and high quantities forever.

I agree with this about caffeine being helpful for some, I think the 15mg of K2 solo could be extremely helpful and then maybe trying caffeine again. Im in a boat similiar to yours, I experience tiredness + I think have high cortisol and caffeine agitates this causing some weird spells with it.
 

Mauritio

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I agree with this about caffeine being helpful for some, I think the 15mg of K2 solo could be extremely helpful and then maybe trying caffeine again. Im in a boat similiar to yours, I experience tiredness + I think have high cortisol and caffeine agitates this causing some weird spells with it.
+1
 

Momado965

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Aug 28, 2016
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By the benchmark of being able to take 1G+ of caffeine/day and doing the k2, protocol, I’m doing fine.

However it never really “fixed” me. I’ve been on a mission to try and heal long standing inflammation in my stomach/intestines. Been using cyproheptadine + bcaa mix (from impower, not affiliated). People along with haidut and others mentioned that this was their initial catalyst to break long standing inflammation/seratonin issues and start the path towards healing.

Aside from that, I’m using b vitamins, fat solubles, and eating the recommended foods. I haven’t achieved a lasting feeling of lowered inflammation/seratonin yet, though i’ve been on cypro for just a little over a week.

What effects did you get from mixing bccaas and cypro and were the effects long lasting?
 

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