K2/Caffeine For Liver Health

[Peata]

I've spent some time trying to find the threads where this is talked about, and there were several, so it got confusing. I wanted a thread for those who have done the protocol, are doing it, or thinking about it.

Some background: I was told I have mildly fatty liver a few years ago. I've never had weight issues, other than occasional gains that seem like insulin resistance (being on ssri's, being sedentary and eating too much over the winter, etc.) but mostly normal weight.

I gained the most weight of my life after eating this Peat way (25 pounds, most of it came on from last Jan - June), I figure the fattiness in my liver probably got worse. I suspect cortisol problems (probably had them my whole life), plus I have other issues like PCOS, and this weight gain might have happened to me even if I wasn't eating the Peat foods. however, though I've gained weight before, it was never this hard to lose before.

I did manage to get the weight gain to stop at least, by last July, but losing anything has been impossible, even with weights, walking, calorie restrictions, changing up macros, eliminating certain foods, taking supplements, and so on.

With the estrogen dominance and other issues, I figure it's not necessarily the "Peat" foods I'm eating causing huge issues (though eating too much or too little calories contributes no doubt), but my body is in a mildy hypo state and can't do the things with the food that it should for maximum health. There's something else going on under the surface preventing the weight loss. For example, I tried eating high protein (at least 80 g.) for a long time, but it didn't help my liver like it was supposed to. I feel the liver could be the source of many problems, and until I get it's main problems taken care of it feels like I'm putting a bandaid on. Another example, I love how progest e helps with estrogen dominance symptoms, but even months of taking high doses did not correct things (get my body to produce more progesterone). So there's something getting in the way of things. I've been doing this peat stuff for going on 2 years, and there should be more improvement, imo. BTW, I don't take thyroid and don't want to go that route if I can work on things another way.

This is getting too long, so let me say that what I I"M hoping if I can get my liver in shape, that would surely help a number of problems right at the source.

The supplements are K2 and Caffeine. Optional are Taurine and Glycine.

I know K2 amount is 15 mg. What is the caffeine amount? I saw 400 mg. (divided dose of course) mentioned.

I have had plenty of caffeine daily for a long, long time (most of my life), and that hasn't seemed to help my problem. So perhaps caffeine alone isn't enough for me to clear up my liver of the estrogens and other toxins.

I started yesterday with 15 mg. K2, divided. So, 5 mg. am, afternoon, before bed. I didn't get the caffeine nearly high enough since I've been feeling high cortisol and caffeine bothers me, but today I feel better, and so I plan to increase caffeine.

I know there were some success stories on the forum already with this. Would love to hear from anyone on this topic of fatty liver, clearing it up, dosages, etc.

 

[charlie]

Peata, I will be watching your results with interest. I also plan on doing this caffeine, K2 and glycine combination soon as I can get them.

 

[johns74]

Charlie, didn't your teeth get bad from K2? Could it be a vitamin D deficiency? Maybe K2 requires high D?

 

[Peata]

Here are the supplements I'm taking, and not all of this is for the liver, but other things too.

D3 - 2,000 - several days on this
K2 - 15 mg - day #2
Vitamin C - 1 g. - 2 months
Magnesium - 400 mg. - almost 3 weeks

edited to clarify Vitamin C

 

[charlie]

Charlie, didn't your teeth get bad from K2? Could it be a vitamin D deficiency? Maybe K2 requires high D?

Yes, but the last few days I tried some K2 thats in the estroban I have, and its not having the bad reaction to my teeth anymore. I suspect that its not happening because I have been high dosing magnesium for a couple months at least. So I want to give high dosing of K2 another shot soon as I can get ahold of some.

Haidut had said he had the same reaction as me when he tried the K2 high doses, but said magnesium seemed to fix that. I did try some magnesium short term, but it didnt alleviate the reaction. Maybe the couple of months built it up enough....

 

[Surfari]

Is anyone having their temps drop from K2? The other day I put 5 drops on my skin, and in 2 hours my temps went from 98.2 to 96.9. Of course, it could have been something else. But isn't there something with K2 that can interfere with thyroid?

 

[yoshiesque]

as far as i know the only thing K2 can do is stop the blood thinning effects if aspirin. I have not read anything else.

I dont notice any differences when I take K2 and I take 15drops, 3x/day. Thats quite a large drop, i highly doubt it would be a few drops of K2.

 

[sunmountain]

I'm trying the protocol too although my caffeine intake isn't high enough. I drink coffee in milk twice a day. I put two heaping T of coarse coffee in the press, make a concentrate, and mix with warm milk. I don't know how much caffeine that is.

But I am taking 15mg of K per day, all in one go.

I'm also taking glycine and have been for a while now. I seem to have my stomach swell up on green can and switched to glycine. I take several heaping teaspoons a day.

I might add taurine at bedtime.

Lately I've slacked off on the D, but will try upping it again. Is there any other supp that high K will affect negatively?

thanks

 

[loess]

Lately I've slacked off on the D, but will try upping it again. Is there any other supp that high K will affect negatively?

If you are taking a significantly high dose of either vitamin K2 or vitamin E you might want to take those away from each other. I think haidut has mentioned that they tend to inhibit the absorption of the other, but it's not a big deal in smaller doses.

 

[sunmountain]

I'm not actually taking any E at present...got tired of rubbing lotioncrafter on arms and taking a break. Should high K be balanced by E away from each other?

 

[loess]

sunmountain, I didn't mean to imply that vitamin K2 at any dose would directly deplete the body's stores of vitamin E or that you would always need to balance one with the other even if taken separately. Just that I had come across haidut's post about them being possibly antagonistic of each other in terms of absorption if higher dosing one or the other and taken at the same time.

I'm not well-versed enough in the various functions of K2 to even begin to give any comprehensive analysis of how it affects certain things, but since one of its functions is to direct calcium out of the soft tissues, out of the blood, and into the bones, then it seems to me that if you are taking higher doses of K2 you probably will want to ensure you are taking in enough magnesium, since magnesium is closely involved with the proper assimilation of calcium.

Also I don't mean to veer off topic but if you have lost patience with topical application of Lotioncrafter and still want to supplement it, you might try taking it orally? I found it very unpleasant to ingest on its own, but discovered that it goes down much easier when mixed with a little coconut oil. The best way I have found is to take a wooden chopstick (or a tooth pick or even a butter knife) and get your dose of Lotioncrafter on there, and then smear that onto the palm of your other hand. Then do the same with a bit of coconut oil, enough to dilute the Lotioncrafter so that it's not so sticky and globby. Stir them both together in your palm; the stirring and the warmth of your hand will help melt the coconut oil and get everything somewhat emulsified. Sometimes I will stir some pregnenolone powder in with it. Then you can scoop it up a few times with the chopstick into your mouth (or just lick your palm and swallow). I usually rub whatever small bit of residue remains on my hand into my other wrist. I usually chase it with OJ or coffee/milk.

 

[natedawggh]

I gained the most weight of my life after eating this Peat way (25 pounds, most of it came on from last Jan - June), I figure the fattiness in my liver probably got worse. I suspect cortisol problems (probably had them my whole life), plus I have other issues like PCOS, and this weight gain might have happened to me even if I wasn't eating the Peat foods. however, though I've gained weight before, it was never this hard to lose before.

The supplements are K2 and Caffeine. Optional are Taurine and Glycine.

Hi Peata!

I've been having this same trouble with my weight... but I have been taking K2 (specifically the Life Extension brand Super K, which is K1 and two forms of K2 without bad additives that so many of the K2 sups have). Have had some great progress with it. I had a lot of lower back pain (kidney pain?) before taking it and I have absolutely none now at all since Christmas. My temps are also always very high now (97.8 this morning on waking) and I only have to take a tiny bit of thyroid once in the morning and once in the evening to keep my temps up. My weight has been fluctuating but to be honest I had a few drinks during the holidays and that always sets me back (as well as the occasional dining out, even just once every two weeks will add back on 2-5 lbs).

I have been trying something new, where I figured that if weight gain ultimately is caused by the presence of too much PUFAs in the body (and liver?) I have been increasing my saturated fat dramatically (the low/no fat strategy only made me gain wait and feel terrible).

I have been going through about a full stick of butter every day (in coffee, warm milk, etc). As well as eating dishes that include heavy cream and the usual Peatian friendly things like fruit, potatoes, gelatinous meats, etc. such as fruit salad with whipped cream and ricotta cheese, or chicken fricassee with homemade stock. I have, as expected, lost about a pound every day that I have been doing this, so it is definitely not adding to the weight, it also raises my temperature and keeps it there longer. Also, saturated fat is slightly antiseptic, and some of the symptoms I notice after having high carb meals (such as bloating, etc.) are nonexistent with the high fat/high protien/high carb that I'm doing. I think the stabilizing effects of increased saturated fat intake can help stabilize mitochondria, eliminate PUFAs, aid in nutrient absorption and restore cellular integrity. I will report more on this as I continue doing it!

 

[SQu]

So I remortgaged the house, sold the kids etc to buy k2, got it home to find I'd done all of that for 50 pathetic 100ug capsules - with silicon dioxide. What a ripoff the supplement market is. Anyway. does anyone know if dissolving in CO then filtering through a coffee filter would work for k2 as it seems to for progesterone? Or should I swallow the expensive beach sand this once?

 

[tara]

Can you return it and import thorne K2? 1mg per drop. More than a month's supply at the recommended 15mg daily dosage, more than a year's supply at a smaller 1mg dosage.

 

[jaa]

Does anyone take the 15mg dosage? Seems like overkill.

 

[Peata]

I'm trying the protocol too although my caffeine intake isn't high enough. I drink coffee in milk twice a day. I put two heaping T of coarse coffee in the press, make a concentrate, and mix with warm milk. I don't know how much caffeine that is.

But I am taking 15mg of K per day, all in one go.

I'm also taking glycine and have been for a while now. I seem to have my stomach swell up on green can and switched to glycine. I take several heaping teaspoons a day.

I might add taurine at bedtime.

Lately I've slacked off on the D, but will try upping it again. Is there any other supp that high K will affect negatively?

thanks

How long have you been taking 15 mg. K?

I think gelatin made my belly swell too. I had to stop using it.

I thought that a lot of vitamin E would deplete K, not sure if it works the other way or not.

 

[lindsay]

Peata - I'm also interested to see how this goes for you. I've been supplementing K2 for quite some time with good results, but only 5 mg. Maybe I will up my dose. It's done wonders for my teeth and bones - I can feel it.

Regarding the caffeine, if I might make a suggestion?? If you don't already, invest in a cheap but decent espresso machine and switch to a stronger coffee. For one, you get more caffeine with less liquid. Also, the magnesium content will be higher, which means you don't have to supplement magnesium. I've been able to stop magnesium supplementation with an extra 4 oz. of espresso daily, when I need it. You can get a coffee grinder and fresh espresso or good beans and grind them to espresso strength. I know I say this on here regularly, but of all the things that have made a difference in how I feel on a daily basis, switching from regular coffee to espresso was a big one. When I go to visit someone who doesn't drink really strong coffee (like my parents'), I feel off. Everyday I drink at least 8 oz. of really strong coffee - in winter it's more like 12 oz. If you don't like it this strong, just add a tiny bit of water or some milk and sugar.

Regarding the Taurine/Glycine, Dr. Brind's supplement (proglyta is what it's called), is made with glycine, taurine and proline. I emailed him and asked. It seems pretty decent - I've thought about trying it. The price is a small one for good health.

 

[Spondive]

What is mechanism or science behind K2 helping liver?

 

[lindsay]

What is mechanism or science behind K2 helping liver?

K2 is found at highest levels in liver (which is why eating liver or supplementing K2 is important), so maybe the liver needs it.

 

[dd99]

This is what haidut wrote about K2 and liver:

I believe vitamin K2 works by stabilizing the so-called Kuppfer cells in the liver:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupffer_cell
At least that's what the studies I have seen on PubMed say. Also, we know that quinones like K2 makes mitochondria work better, so that's probably another mechanism behind K2 effects.