Just How Damaging Is Too Much Muscle Meat?

[Motif]

About 2 per meal high in protein (as in, dinner). Sometimes 3. I don’t really like the process of dosing up until it burns, I don’t see the point. Besides having to buy into again sooner rather than later

Do you take them before you eat?

 

[Vinero]

Excessive red meat consumption has been associated with an increased prevalence of both cancer and heart disease, particularly in those with poor blood sugar regulation (diabetes); however, smaller amounts of red meat have very little association with either, and white meat consumption appears alongside favorable health outcomes.

"Dietary habits play a substantial role for increasing or reducing cancer risk. We performed a critical review of scientific literature, to describe the findings of meta-analyses that explored the association between meat consumption and cancer risk. Overall, 42 eligible meta-analyses were included in this review, in which meat consumption was assumed from sheer statistics. Convincing association was found between larger intake of red meat and cancer, especially with colorectal, lung, esophageal and gastric malignancies. Increased consumption of processed meat was also found to be associated with colorectal, esophageal, gastric and bladder cancers. Enhanced intake of white meat or poultry was found to be negatively associated with some types of cancers. Larger beef consumption was significantly associated with cancer, whereas the risk was not increased consuming high amounts of pork. Our analysis suggest increased risk of cancer in subjects consuming large amounts of red and processed meat, but not in those with high intake of white meat or poultry."

"Growing evidence suggests that effects of red meat consumption on coronary heart disease (CHD) and type 2 diabetes could vary depending on processing. We reviewed the evidence for effects of unprocessed (fresh/frozen) red and processed (using sodium/other preservatives) meat consumption on CHD and diabetes. In meta-analyses of prospective cohorts, higher risk of CHD is seen with processed meat consumption (RR per 50 g: 1.42, 95 %CI = 1.07–1.89), but a smaller increase or no risk is seen with unprocessed meat consumption. Differences in sodium content (~400 % higher in processed meat) appear to account for about two-thirds of this risk difference. In similar analyses, both unprocessed red and processed meat consumption are associated with incident diabetes, with higher risk per g of processed (RR per 50 g: 1.51, 95 %CI = 1.25–1.83) versus unprocessed (RR per 100 g: 1.19, 95 % CI = 1.04–1.37) meats. Contents of heme iron and dietary cholesterol may partly account for these associations. The overall findings suggest that neither unprocessed red nor processed meat consumption is beneficial for cardiometabolic health, and that clinical and public health guidance should especially prioritize reducing processed meat consumption."

"Red meat has been associated for a long time to an increased the risk of CVDs. However, recent findings demonstrated that despite the presence of heme iron and carnitine, red meat does not significantly increase cardiovascular risk when it is [consumed] in recommended doses. Visible fat and preservatives are the major issues in the link between red meat and increased cardiovascular risk, thus leading to a significant causal role for preserved red meats, especially if they are consumed daily. Despite some other links have been advocated, there is still debate regarding their role."

"Red meat intake was not associated with CHD (n=4 studies, RR per 100g serving/day=1.00, 95%CI=0.81–1.23,p-for-heterogeneity=0.36) or diabetes (n=5, RR=1.16, 95%CI=0.92–1.46,p=0.25). Conversely, processed meat intake was associated with 42% higher risk of CHD (n=5, RR per 50g serving/day=1.42, 95%CI=1.07–1.89,p=0.04) and 19% higher risk of diabetes (n=7, RR=1.19, 95%CI=1.11–1.27,p<0.001). Associations were intermediate for total meat intake. Red and processed meat consumption were not associated with stroke, but only 3 studies evaluated these relationships."

"Mean meat intake in quartiles ranged from 9.9 to 97.7 g/day. After adjusting for confounders, HRs of CHD in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quartiles for meat intake compared with the 1st quartile were 2.84 (95% confidence interval 1.29-6.24, p = 0.01), 3.02 (1.36-6.70, p < 0.01), and 2.99 (1.35-6.65, p = 0.01), respectively. In two groups according to meat intake, patients [with type 2 diabetes] consuming ≥ 20 g/day of meat had a 2.94-fold higher risk of CHD than those consuming < 20 g/day (p < 0.01). There was no significant association of stroke with meat intake."

References

Bronzato S, Durante A. A Contemporary Review of the Relationship between Red Meat Consumption and Cardiovascular Risk. Int J Prev Med
[Internet]. 2017 Jun 1 [cited 2018 Nov 12];8. Available from: A Contemporary Review of the Relationship between Red Meat Consumption and Cardiovascular Risk

Horikawa C, Kamada C, Tanaka S, Tanaka S, Araki A, Ito H, et al. Meat intake and incidence of cardiovascular disease in Japanese patients with type 2 diabetes: analysis of the Japan Diabetes Complications Study (JDCS). Eur J Nutr. 2017 Dec 8;

Lippi G, Mattiuzzi C, Cervellin G. Meat consumption and cancer risk: a critical review of published meta-analyses. Crit Rev Oncol Hematol. 2016 Jan;97:1–14.

Micha R, Michas G, Mozaffarian D. Unprocessed Red and Processed Meats and Risk of Coronary Artery Disease and Type 2 Diabetes – An Updated Review of the Evidence. Curr Atheroscler Rep. 2012 Dec;14(6):515–24.

Micha R, Wallace SK, Mozaffarian D. Red and processed meat consumption and risk of incident coronary heart disease, stroke, and diabetes: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Circulation. 2010 Jun 1;121(21):2271–83.​

I used to be a big red meat eater. I would eat steak at least once a day, sometimes twice.
During a few months of high beef intake I developed some dark spots on my skin. I think it was lipofuscin. I realized then that the high iron intake makes beef a risky food to ingest in high amounts. Luckily supplementing Vitamin E has mostly reversed those dark spots.

 

[Vinero]

In other words, has anyone had much experience with alleviation of symptoms by removing muscle meats from the diet? Has anyone done personal experimentation along these lines?

Replacing chicken breast instead of beef works for me. I also use a zinc supplement once every 3 days to make up for the zinc I would have gotten from the beef. This way I get a low iron and high zinc intake.

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

Do you take them before you eat?

yes

 

[Cirion]

I think because meat has limited usefulness in a nutritious diet (due to the heavy Iron content and whatnot), I now think its best to only consume meat that are super-nutritious (such as organ meat). The only meat I eat now is grass-fed liverwurst pretty much (ground beef / heart / liver / kidney).

 

[Braveheart]

I think because meat has limited usefulness in a nutritious diet (due to the heavy Iron content and whatnot), I now think its best to only consume meat that are super-nutritious (such as organ meat). The only meat I eat now is grass-fed liverwurst pretty much (ground beef / heart / liver / kidney).

A good steak provides all the vitamins and nutrients we need.

 

[Cirion]

Can you provide me a link showing me this (nutrient profile of steak)? I've never heard this before.

I do know Stan Efferding loves his steak and white rice (he uses these for the bulk of his diet).

 

[Runenight201]

I've been eating meat exclusively with broth made from bones/skin/cartilage, and I find it to be the most optimal way to eat meat.

Eating meat in this fashion gives me great warmth and nourishment, and I usually just eat to appetite. Chicken soup for lunch, meat soup for dinner. Yucca with my chicken, white rice noodles with my meat (pho style =P).

It usually ends up being about .35-.5 pounds of meat per sitting I'd say, varies based on appetite and muscular damage I've induced via exercising.

I think this is the best way to eat meat. Eating meat without broth just doesn't seem appealing to me anymore now that I know what its like to eat meat with the accompanied broth.

I usually find soda to be the best companion of soup. Jarritos strawberry soda is the knockout winner.

 

[Braveheart]

Can you provide me a link showing me this (nutrient profile of steak)? I've never heard this before.

I do know Stan Efferding loves his steak and white rice (he uses these for the bulk of his diet).

Don't take my word for it...the info is out there...you will be more satisfied w the answer from your own research... nutritional tracking FitDay and/or Cronometer will give you a quick overview...but the discussions on nutrition of meat are most enlightening.

 

[fradon]

Tuna is muscle meat though. In fact, it's closer to meat/poultry than whitefish are, at least going by texture (not sure about AA profile)

it is muscle meat but the texture is so soft i consider it closer to egg because of the BIO AVAILABLITY of the protein. FISH is pretty easy to digest but the best is EGGS as it has BV of 100

eggs then fish then chicken then beef and then pork or something like that.

 

[DaveFoster]

I used to be a big red meat eater. I would eat steak at least once a day, sometimes twice.
During a few months of high beef intake I developed some dark spots on my skin. I think it was lipofuscin. I realized then that the high iron intake makes beef a risky food to ingest in high amounts. Luckily supplementing Vitamin E has mostly reversed those dark spots.

That's very interesting. Thank you. Dr. Peat has said that iron has a direct contributory effect to lipofuscin, and some researchers have posited the heme iron in red meat as the source of meat's harmful effects.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Over the summer I would drink a pint of OJ immediately upon waking, then follow it up with a 12 oz. ribeye for breakfast, with two fried eggs, toast, and coffee with cream and sugar. Never felt better in my life. I actually looked forward to waking up every day, which is extremely unusual for me.

Unfortunately, I’m back to dorm food until the end of term, but otherwise I would have kept doing this. I fully intend to start up again once I’m home.

From all the experiments I've done on myself am leaning to the same eating style. Milk and dairy makes feel spaced out and grumpy with zero libido. Except butter.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

From all the experiments I've done on myself am leaning to the same eating style

Let us know how your hairline will be.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Let us know how your hairline will be.

Sure thing! At this point I don't care about hair so buzzed it because of the obsession I had with it and I go by overall well being. I probably have so kind of sensitivity to milk/dairy which doesn't seem to go away so quitting it completely is reasonable at this point. I eat gelatin and use eggshell for calcium.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@Vladimir Erfán It's the Ca: P ratio I had in mind. Started eating red meat again, makes me feel really good. But I also need to improve my hair.

 

[SOMO]

Many see this as heresy, but switching whole meat to ground meat can be very beneficial, the composition is much more balanced when you eat the "leftovers"

Ground meat, as in ground beef is NOT "leftovers."

I think you're wrongly assuming ground beef is made up of the nutritionally-superior organ meats, and it's not.

Ground beef is ground muscle meat, not ground organ meat.
Ground beef is the same stuff as regular cuts of meat or burger meat except...ground.

In most countries there are laws which require the labeling of organ meat as such.

 

[rei]

No i did not mean it. I meant that it contains more of the "bad"/undesired stuff like ligaments, collagen etc. and often fat compared to whole cuts. Which can end up being nutritionally superior.

 

[Amazoniac]

Milk has has higher % tryptophan than muscle meat. I do not understand this forum's aversion to muscle meats, especially good ground beef.

Indeed. It's quite low in it in terms of amino acids profile when compared to other proteins:
- Amino Acid Content And Profile Of Some Proteinaceous Foods

It's considered limiting:
- Protein quality

Raj has mentioned that lack of protein leads to extreme serotonin dominance or something along these lines. Muscle catabolism must not be a contributor because amino acids could be released in the proportions above. If bone is broken down together, you can have a balanced self-meal due to the degradation of collagen (hydroxyproline is a marker of bone dissolution).

I think that this was already posted in another thread:

- Modern nutrition in health and disease (978-1-60547-461-8)

Spoiler

There can be a considerable loss of liver protein in fasting.

From what I was reading the other day in Nate's book, tryptophan is a double edged sword.

- KISS Website

 

[PxD]

Since I started adding gelatin (2 tablespoons) to my daily regimen, eating more calcium/dairy, low-fat seafood, and fruit, and drinking coffee and broth, I've had to cut my muscle meat consumption by 30-40% on a calorie basis in order to make room for the Peaty stuff. Since then (3 years ago), I've noticed that I sleep better and I have become progressively physically more resilient over that time. I used to eat muscle meat on a daily basis, lunch and dinner. Now, much less.

Concrete examples:
1. I have pretty bad seasonal allergies. These used to consist of body-wide fatigue as well as rhinitis, runny eyes, etc. Now, the fatigue is gone and it's just the runny nose and eyes that I'm left with, which makes it much more manageable.
2. Used to have a fairly high need for sleep (8+ hours), and used to sleep lightly, waking frequently. Now, I can get by with 5-6 for several days if I have to with no real impact to my daily function. If I take gelatin before bed, I sleep like a log and have vivid dreams.
3. Physical recovery is faster. A weight lifting workout used to leave me stiff and sore for about 3 days afterwards. Now, I'm recovered by the next day. I'm considering trying a run of 30 straight days of squat workouts, just to see if I can do it and what it might accomplish in terms of breaking strength plateaus. I think I could handle it.

I love a good steak and I think muscle meat is generally tremendously nutritious, but as I've been experimenting on myself for the past few years I've learned that there is huge benefit to balancing out the diet and especially balancing out the amino acid profile.

 

[HumanLife]

Since I started adding gelatin (2 tablespoons) to my daily regimen, eating more calcium/dairy, low-fat seafood, and fruit, and drinking coffee and broth, I've had to cut my muscle meat consumption by 30-40% on a calorie basis in order to make room for the Peaty stuff. Since then (3 years ago), I've noticed that I sleep better and I have become progressively physically more resilient over that time. I used to eat muscle meat on a daily basis, lunch and dinner. Now, much less.

Concrete examples:
1. I have pretty bad seasonal allergies. These used to consist of body-wide fatigue as well as rhinitis, runny eyes, etc. Now, the fatigue is gone and it's just the runny nose and eyes that I'm left with, which makes it much more manageable.
2. Used to have a fairly high need for sleep (8+ hours), and used to sleep lightly, waking frequently. Now, I can get by with 5-6 for several days if I have to with no real impact to my daily function. If I take gelatin before bed, I sleep like a log and have vivid dreams.
3. Physical recovery is faster. A weight lifting workout used to leave me stiff and sore for about 3 days afterwards. Now, I'm recovered by the next day. I'm considering trying a run of 30 straight days of squat workouts, just to see if I can do it and what it might accomplish in terms of breaking strength plateaus. I think I could handle it.

I love a good steak and I think muscle meat is generally tremendously nutritious, but as I've been experimenting on myself for the past few years I've learned that there is huge benefit to balancing out the diet and especially balancing out the amino acid profile.

That's great news! What gelatin did you use by the way? The sleep factor seems really promising.