Suspected "too Low Cortisol" And Iron Deficiency

[Insomnia]

Hello people it's me again.

In the past couple of months I have tried figuring out my problem that I was actually struggling even before I started supplementing (something I had on a young age). I stopped supplementing since 2 months because I wanted to find the culprit and reintroduce everything once resolved (bit of a paradox but yeah).

It's the thyroid function that has never been 100% for me and it is involved in many symptoms I experience. I also believe that I have become somewhat iron deficient, when looking back at some of my labworks. I've done wetcupping with succes but I have overdone it a bit too much (too many sessions in too little time) and my ferrithin levels dropped from what I think was health (around 60) to around 30.

There was one period where my TSH was 2.4, but all others were between 8 and 12. I can't recall what I did exactly to lower my TSH, but I suspect I did something good.

I just don't feel well, especially considering the fact that now my heart is at 140 bpm with very light/slight exercise (which was never that way). It feels my body/heart needs to pump alot of blood in order to get proper oxygenation going on. Somehow red light therapy (as of lately) is doing me no good either and I feel wayy too relaxed and I am not able to get that pump going on in the gym. It feels like my bloodpressure is going too low. When I do basic things, such as walking up the stairs I feel I'm out of breath and also feel lightheaded.


In the gym I am also very lightheaded after exercise, I do proper lifts with proper techniques and proper breathing and proper weights (I don't like lifting heavy, it's just counterproductive). I am a fan of fullbody workouts done by Leeroy Colbert, he has a great way of explaining on how the body responds to training. Nowadays alot of people overload themselves too much and the body is actually traumatized instead of getting triggered to respond properly to the weighttraining done.

Anyhow, after I went home and ate a good meal (white rice with meat and potatoes) I also drank some milk + "high quality chocolate" before bedtime. I feel that increasing my salt intake has done alot of good and in the past 2 months, increasing my salt intake has upped my body temperature substantially. I just didn't like the milk yesterday (while milk and chocolate are one of my favorite things, I don't overdo chocolate though lol) and then I went to sleep to experience something what I finally believe to be "too low cortisol". I had this extreme nightmare and in my dreams it felt like I had pain in my upper abdomen area and in the same area on the back (I think it's located at the pancreas/adrenals)? I had this same thing going on last week but without the pain thingy/nightmare and I was quite drenched in sweat when I woke up. Yesterday I woke up and I was legit even in a "hallucinating" state of mind and I got so upset and started investigating (on the phone) what exactly was going on and I came to the conclusion it must have been hypoglycemia. I also had this extreme tight feeling in my throat (thyroid area I think) going all the way down to the abodem area I pointed out, initially I thought it must have been some sort of deep neck flexor/tight muscle but it may aswell have been something else. When I ate some dates/cheese/complex carbohydrates and a coke (over the period of and hour (I know it may not have been the best combo, but I kinda freaked out and just ate what I could), BOOM suddenly some time after eating I felt like my thyroid/muscle/adrenals (or whatever it was) relaxed immediately and I was able to resume sleep. What I normally would've done (without knowing) was just sleep after such thing happened.

What I don't understand is that I did eat something 1-2 hours before bedtime and I was hoping that it would've helped me to get through the night.

I think my adrenals/thyroid (which is what I struggled with since I was little) are the problem. As of lately I don't respond to b3 aswell (this is still an assumption) because it lowers blood glucose too much. Combined with 2 days of fasting in the week (which I started since 2 months), I got very good results in gaining lean body mass but I feel that I still may have an iron deficiency that was left undiagnosed. When I look at my diet and the cupping I have done, iron is not really there in the amounts it should be. I think I have a true iron deficiency but I'm having bloodworks done on thursday. However, I also think I have a cortisol deficiency, so the thyroid should play a role in both of these and I wonder whether there is a connection between all of this?

The one time that I got hospitalized (about 2-3 months ago) after taking the multi (high in b's and minerals, basically high in everything), the doctor (from the hospital) measured my blood glucose and it was pretty darn low. I feel that it indeed may have been the blood sugar after all, even the anaphylactic symptoms I experienced at one point. My own doctor then measured all vits and I was pretty high in b12, I then decided to stop the multi and all other supps (I wasn't really overdoing them).

What I also did was fasting on some days and since 2 months I do it on 2 days of the week. I lost alot of bodyfat and gained muscle mass (probably HGH production that's playing a role here). I just don't think supplementing is helping me out when I fast because it's triggering something which causes these symptoms. The benefits from fasting besides bodyfat/mass is also more clarity etc. Because I am not a big eater (I just sure I get enough cals by choosing the right foods) I try filling in the gaps with supps but as of now it just doesn't work out. I still don't know if there is a connection between the fasting and the symptoms I described, because fasting has really done me good. I started reintroducing supps since two weeks (started out with high quality Energin) I felt I couldn't really take a full dose, even half a dose was a bit troublesome but it didn't produce anxiety (so I guess that's a good thing), I also didn't take it orally so I don't know if that makes a difference). If I fast and don't take B vits, I imply that nothing would happen.

Could anyone clarify, I just don't feel productive and have trouble thinking / coming up with the right words.
I also have trouble writing all of this and it feels I've thrown random words all over the place, so my excuses for a potential hard-to-read topic. If something is not clear or needs more clarification, please feel free to ask and I'll do my best to explain where possible.

Last thing on a sidenote: would pregnenolone/progesterone/dhea help with "too low cortisol" or fill in the gaps by producing the right hormones, I just feel that diet alone can't fix everything at this point and I need something to push me in the right direction.

 

[Insomnia]

Inviting @Makrosky @Amazoniac @Constatine @A.R to join the conversation. If I tagged someone without permission, I will make sure I won't do it in my "future threads", but as of now I am in a bit of a desperate situation. I really need to tackle this annoying problem and be done with it once and for all, the TSH has always been too high and I think the majority of the problem is also coming from there.

 

[Makrosky]

No problems, you can cite me anytime you want. I am not an expert anyway so I'll try my best.

First of all : A TSH of 8-12???? For how long?? What does your endocrinologist has to say about that??

 

[Makrosky]

If an endocrinologist sees that I guess he would prescribe a thyroid ecography to rule out nodules or stuff lile that. And also... if he is competent should teste all thyroid antibodies. Have you done that?

 

[Makrosky]

Also a check for goiter or graves disease. Please explain what your endo says about all this.

 

[Insomnia]

No problems, you can cite me anytime you want. I am not an expert anyway so I'll try my best.

First of all : A TSH of 8-12???? For how long?? What does your endocrinologist has to say about that??

If an endocrinologist sees that I guess he would prescribe a thyroid ecography to rule out nodules or stuff lile that. And also... if he is competent should teste all thyroid antibodies. Have you done that?

I basically have had all thyroid tests you can think of. The Anti-TPO ruled out hashi's so I'm glad that was allright. My doctor basically asked, believe it or not, what I felt and I described some of my symptoms at the time most notably the cold hands/feet, but now that I think of, it was way more then just that. Brainfog/lethergy was really bad and anxiety was also a thing when I look at how relaxed I am compared to how I felt then. After that, he didn't do much and said the TSH was "a bit higher' and it's something that suits me (so basically, high TSH would indeed indicate hypothyroidism but not for everyone, and I was one of the special ones who could just function well that way). When I heard that, I was like dayumn I can't believe my ears. Other doctors (which I've spoken in free time or in other settings) tell me that it should be treated, so luckily not all doctors agree on that point. The TSH was between 8-12 for a period of 6-8 months (I also experimented with iodine during these periods), I dropped to around 2-3 TSH (while still continuing iodine with companion nutrients) but I have dropped all iodine supplementation as of july 2018 and kept it simple (milk/cheese/meat/simple multi/fat-soluble vits for most of the part/red light and occasional gelatin consumption).

 

[Makrosky]

I basically have had all thyroid tests you can think of. The Anti-TPO ruled out hashi's so I'm glad that was allright. My doctor basically asked, believe it or not, what I felt and I described some of my symptoms at the time most notably the cold hands/feet, but now that I think of, it was way more then just that. Brainfog/lethergy was really bad and anxiety was also a thing when I look at how relaxed I am compared to how I felt then. After that, he didn't do much and said the TSH was "a bit higher' and it's something that suits me (so basically, high TSH would indeed indicate hypothyroidism but not for everyone, and I was one of the special ones who could just function well that way). When I heard that, I was like dayumn I can't believe my ears. Other doctors (which I've spoken in free time or in other settings) tell me that it should be treated, so luckily not all doctors agree on that point. The TSH was between 8-12 for a period of 6-8 months (I also experimented with iodine during these periods), I dropped to around 2-3 TSH (while still continuing iodine with companion nutrients) but I have dropped all iodine supplementation as of july 2018 and kept it simple (milk/cheese/meat/simple multi/fat-soluble vits for most of the part/red light and occasional gelatin consumption).

Ok so we can rule out nodules, antibodies, graves, etc.? Ok.

A TSH of 8-12 to me it looks like complete clinical hypothyroidism.

All your other blood labs are ok? Like B12, iron levels, etc...? You said your iron was out of range but how is it now?

Have you tried NDT? I don't know if using thyroid is advised with high TSH?


I would stop 100% fasting and training for now. They can be very harmful for hypothyroid.

 

[Insomnia]

Also a check for goiter or graves disease. Please explain what your endo says about all this.

All of the other tests were fine I think, I'll post some lab results below so you can see how it shifted:


23-02-2017 (an old one of 2017 while I was using iodine, not sure):

TSH 8.4 mIU/L range is 0.40 - 4.7
T4 (free) 14 pmol/L range is 12 - 22
Testosterone 34nmol/L range is 7.0 - 25)
Anti-TPO <28 kU/l range is, should not exceed 60
25-OH Vitamin D3 130 nmol/l range is 50 - 150

03-11-2017:
TSH 12 mIU/L range is 0.40 - 4.7
T4 (free) 13 pmol/L range is 11.5 - 23.0
Testosterone 30nmol/L range is 7.0 - 25
Ferrithin 90 ug/L range is 20.0 - 280.0
Transferrin 2.4 g/L range is 2.0 - 4.1
Transferrin saturation: 28% range is 20 - 45
Iron 17 umol/L range is 14 - 35
25-OH Vitamin D3 90 nmol/l range is 50 - 150
Anti-TPO <28 kU/l range is, should not exceed 60

20-12-2017:

TSH 7.6 mIU/L range is 0.30 - 4.2
T4 (free) 14 pmol/L range is 12 - 22
Testosterone 29nmol/L range is 7.0 - 25)
25-OH Vitamin D3 96 nmol/l range is 50 - 150

01-08-2018:

TSH 2.8 mIU/L range is 0.40 - 4.7
T3: 1.2 nmol/L range is 1.0 - 2.8
T4 (free) 14.6 pmol/L range is 11.5 - 23.0
Testosterone 28nmol/L range is 7.0 - 25 (I think 28 nmol is 808 ng/dl)

02-03-2018

TSH 8.5 mIU/L range is 0.40 - 4.7
T4 (free) 13.5 pmol/L range is 11.5 - 23.0
Ferrithin 38.7 ug/L range is 20.0 - 280.0

22-06-2018 (I think this was right after the fasting month)

TSH 3.7 mIU/L range is 0.40 - 4.7
T3: 1.2 nmol/L range is 1.0 - 2.8
T4 (free) 16.7 pmol/L range is 11.5 - 23.0
Testosterone 29nmol/L range is 7.0 - 25
Ferrithin 53..5 ug/L range is 20.0 - 280.0
Transferrin 2.4 g/L range is 2.0 - 4.1
Transferrin saturation: 30% range is 20 - 45
Iron 18 umol/L range is 14 - 35

A couple of months after that I had another (wet)cupping session btw, removing bad blood.

 

[Insomnia]

Ok so we can rule out nodules, antibodies, graves, etc.? Ok.

A TSH of 8-12 to me it looks like complete clinical hypothyroidism.

All your other blood labs are ok? Like B12, iron levels, etc...? You said your iron was out of range but how is it now?

Have you tried NDT? I don't know if using thyroid is advised with high TSH?


I would stop 100% fasting and training for now. They can be very harmful for hypothyroid.

B12 on the last test, for which I called to the doctors office, was substantially higher (1.5x the range), I should get those printed out aswell. The thing is, I was able to workout like crazy in 2017 but felt horrible back then (perhaps I was running too high on stress hormones, I dunno). Now I feel more relaxed/better compared to back then but what happened lately is is so contraindicating. I'd expect that the symptoms I have now was something I would've experienced back then. Another thing on a sidenote is that in april 2017 or 2018 (lol memory isn't working with me right now) I even deadlifted 200kg at 64-66kg bodyweight (not to brag) but I can't believe I was able to pull that off. I overtrained back then and it was until I saw Leeroy Colbert's method of training that I was less stressed and grew more muscle/less bloating/fat percentage and felt better at the same time. I don't even lift those crazy weights since 1-1.5 years now because I wanted to be more responsible and give the body what it needs, it was also during this time I got more into peating. Something is not alright....

 

[Makrosky]

I don't know how to interpret labs sorry. What are the exact symptoms/problems/labs you are worried RIGHT now? Not in the past. Don't worry I know you feel anxious, try to keep it concise.

The TSH looks good for medical standards, high for Peat standards. Have you tried NDT?

 

[Makrosky]

I see... 140bpm... jeez... I don't really know. Your blood pressure is ok?

 

[Makrosky]

One thing for sure : stop training if it makes you feel so bad. And of course STOP fasting.

 

[Insomnia]

I don't know how to interpret labs sorry. What are the exact symptoms/problems/labs you are worried RIGHT now? Not in the past. Don't worry I know you feel anxious, try to keep it concise.

The TSH looks good for medical standards, high for Peat standards. Have you tried NDT?

I have never tried NDT. I also never experienced with hormones before. As of typing this one thing worth mentioning is that I have warm hands something I never had back then when I would sit at a desk. I am also more relaxed but what I experienced past days is kinda freaking me out, there has the be a big player/culprit. I personally think it could be iron or the thyroid (most certainly that thyroid isn't ideal right now) but I am not sure ofcourse. I

If I try NDT, will that not shut off my bodies natural production? Sorry for coming over as stupid (shows how little I know about hormones lol), but could something like Tyromax or Tyromix be used aswell? I'd only use those as a "kickstarter" or when in desperate times, perhaps 1-2x a week at minium/half dose to keep things going and cycle it off for a week or two. Would that be too cautious when it comes to dosing or can I use something more liberal.

If I try someting like hormones, I'd see them as the way I see vitamins/minerals, they need to fill the gaps. Vitamins/minerals should help the body to maintain natural production of hormones but sometimes we need heavier stuff I suppose?

 

[Insomnia]

One thing for sure : stop training if it makes you feel so bad. And of course STOP fasting.

Blood pressure is okay from what I can recall, never had visible issues when measured by the doctor. Is fasting really that bad btw?

 

[Makrosky]

Blood pressure is okay from what I can recall, never had visible issues when measured by the doctor. Is fasting really that bad?

- Do I get it right? Your problems are only from a few days ago? Then I think you should stop training, stop fasting, stop supplements and redlight etc. Take rest, eat properly and try to stay calm.

- Stay away from NDT until you learn more about it. It seems you have to read quite a few more things about it.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

That's really weird. You have really high TSH, but really high heart rate. I also agree about stopping the fasting. The reason why niacinamide gives you low blood sugar is because of glycogen issues. I think taurine and doing Nathan Hatch's sodium acetate combo with grape juice (and other carbs) helped me with that. I used to have that problem when using niacinamide in certain situations.

Iron deficiency and anemia are not the same thing. I don't think you were conflating the two, but just wanted to be clear. Anemia can have many causes.

I believe Peat has said B1 improves verbal fluency.

Maybe look at this paper and see if it sparks any ideas: The thyroid hormone, parathyroid hormone and vitamin D associated hypertension

I wouldn't be surprised if you have a severe deficiency or two of some sort. Most likely a mineral or metal, but could be a B vitamin (not all of them are in Energin).

I don't know, maybe you have a rare genetic disease.

 

[Makrosky]

I am curious what a doctor would say about the 140 bpm. Maybe you can try asking them?

 

[Hans]

PTH, lactate, cortisol, estrogen, etc., increases TSH.

Progesterone decreases TSH and increases free T4.
T4 levels and TSH is usually inversely correlated, because high T4 reduces TSH levels.
Your T3 seem a bit low so I assume conversion rate is low. This can be due to elevated cortisol, inflammation, mineral deficiencies, such as selenium, etc.
It might be good to test T4 (not free) and PTH.

Your T is also above the mentioned upper limit. Maybe it would be good to test estrogen (estradiol & estrone sulphate) and prolactin too.

 

[Constatine]

Can you describe in more detail the "hallucinating" state you were in? Were your lymph nodes swollen? If you have anemia then you should probably eat a lot of beef liver (high in both iron and vitamin A, vitamin A deficiency can cause anemia as well). I know you take a lot of vitamin K but perhaps you should stop for a little bit and see if it helps, vitamin K can definitely cause rapid heart rates and other weird symptoms by lowering tissue calcium too much. In fact I would stop all supplements for at least a week and see if anything changes. Big changes in calcium metabolism can cause symptoms that resemble anemia.
Its worth noting that I've had symptoms very similar to yours before in the past when on too many supplements and overstimulating my metabolism.

 

[Insomnia]

Yes I had one bad similiar experience a couple of months ago (low blood glucose) can't recall whether it was the vitamins/training combo but then I stopped it alltogether and recovered.

Now I try to

That's really weird. You have really high TSH, but really high heart rate. I also agree about stopping the fasting. The reason why niacinamide gives you low blood sugar is because of glycogen issues. I think taurine and doing Nathan Hatch's sodium acetate combo with grape juice (and other carbs) helped me with that. I used to have that problem when using niacinamide in certain situations.

Iron deficiency and anemia are not the same thing. I don't think you were conflating the two, but just wanted to be clear. Anemia can have many causes.

I believe Peat has said B1 improves verbal fluency.

Maybe look at this paper and see if it sparks any ideas: The thyroid hormone, parathyroid hormone and vitamin D associated hypertension

I wouldn't be surprised if you have a severe deficiency or two of some sort. Most likely a mineral or metal, but could be a B vitamin (not all of them are in Energin).

I don't know, maybe you have a rare genetic disease.

Hi Steven, thanks for replaying. At this point, I don't know my exact TSH, the bloodtest of tomorrow should be the most accurate one since it's the least amount of time away from the symptoms I am experiencing right now. I do fear however, it's going to be higher then it should be. I will up my carb intake before training today, if I don't respond well today I will lay off training for another week.

Thanks for posting the study, I think my vitamin D levels dropped quite severely as I didn't touch anything for a long time. I will get that tested aswell tomorrow. Very curious, because this will be the first time where I actually stopped taking vitamin D for quite a while and now I will see how that amount of time affects the vitamin D levels in the body.