How Many Fruits Is Too Much? Today I Ate 14 Apples And 1 Pear

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jet9

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UPDATE:

Yesterday my diet was something like this:
breakfast(8am) chicken, liver, romaine 4 apples + pear, salt
lunch(1pm) lamb, chicken, 7 apples, salt
snack(4pm) 3 apples
dinner(7pm) cooked vegies, fish

Had energy all day, without my usual 6pm/7pm starch i did not get tired and was productive in the evening, however as usual when i remove starch from diet i have:
1 poor sleep, today woke up at 3:30pm. 2 my thyroid hurts, kind of nagging feeling.
1 and 2 always happen when i decide to remove starch from diet and go low carb, but now i am not low carb - 14 apples + 1 pear :) still can't sleep without starch.

when i add starch however i tend to be useless after starch meal(after 6pm) and wake up a little foggy.
 
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jet9

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Guys, thank you for all your suggestions and comments, here are some answers:
How was your digestion?
ok, but i will try to cook fruits and see if i will do better.
My first thought was what was all that fruit doing to your blood sugar?
Probably not bad to do now and then, but for me- I would not do too well eating that much fruit digestively or blood sugar wise in one sitting.
i did not eat all of them in our seating. In one sitting maximum 6-7 :) Rest spread out during the day.
I checked blood sugar 1 hour after snack(3 apples) and today first thing in the morning, both readings 85.

As i told i feel pretty good, the only problem(as with my all starch free experiments) - i won't sleep properly and within couple of days i will crush because of lack of proper sleep.
 

Jennifer

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@jet9 – Have tried saving your more concentrated sources of protein for breakfast and lunch, and keeping your dinner more carb and fat based? Your evening meal seems to be more on the low carb and high protein side which if you struggle to keep liver glycogen stores filled, may be causing you to run out during the night when you're fasting, releasing stress hormones to raise your sugars and causing you to wake. I finally eliminated the 3-4am wakings by saving the denser protein for earlier in the day, and having fat with my fruit at night helps to ground me. Without it, I tend to have too much energy come bedtime, especially during the warmer months where I'm getting lots of sun.
 
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jet9

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@jet9 – Have tried saving your more concentrated sources of protein for breakfast and lunch, and keeping your dinner more carb and fat based? Your evening meal seems to be more on the low carb and high protein side which if you struggle to keep liver glycogen stores filled, may be causing you to run out during the night when you're fasting, releasing stress hormones to raise your sugars and causing you to wake. I finally eliminated the 3-4am wakings by saving the denser protein for earlier in the day, and having fat with my fruit at night helps to ground me. Without it, I tend to have too much energy come bedtime, especially during the warmer months where I'm getting lots of sun.

Jennifer, thank you for your reply.
I already learnt that protein at night = too much energy, so protein serving at night is smallish piece of fish. And morning/lunch ones - are pretty big.
But i think you are right on fat. I will try to add fat to evening meal. What fat sources do you use?
 

Jennifer

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@jet9 – You're welcome! :) My main sources of fat are coconut, avocado and olives, but that's mainly because I'm vegan and stick to whole foods. If you tolerate butter or ghee, I think that's a fine source of fat. I know some on here mention good results with cocoa butter, as well.
 

Aymen

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Apples are like that, since they usually have a bit more fructose than glucose. The Fiji apple for instance has a fructose to glucose distribution of 70:30. Since fructose doesn't release insulin, the signals downstream of that—i.e. β-endorphin and leptin—aren't activated. The banana is almost all glucose, so if you feel the need for a good insulin spike you could always eat about six of those.

I have noticed that with apples, and am convinced a person could eat easily 40 per day (~4,000·Cal).
so eating 40 fruits a day will not make a spike of insulin as eating meat or potatoes . . but will eating those huge amount of fructose a day cause fatty liver disease ?
 

Koveras

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Apples are like that, since they usually have a bit more fructose than glucose. The Fiji apple for instance has a fructose to glucose distribution of 70:30. Since fructose doesn't release insulin, the signals downstream of that—i.e. β-endorphin and leptin—aren't activated. The banana is almost all glucose, so if you feel the need for a good insulin spike you could always eat about six of those.

I have noticed that with apples, and am convinced a person could eat easily 40 per day (~4,000·Cal).

Would disagree with respect to the leptin - seems to be dependant on liver glycogen so fructose should be particularly effective in that regard

Perry, R. J., Y. Wang, G. W. Cline, A. Rabin-Court, J. D. Song, S. Dufour, X. M. Zhang, K. F. Petersen, and G. I. Shulman. "Leptin Mediates a Glucose-Fatty Acid Cycle to Maintain Glucose Homeostasis in Starvation." Cell 172, no. 1-2 (Jan 11 2018): 234-48 e17. <<< article

Bradley, C. A. "Metabolism: Leptin's Role in Starvation." Nat Rev Endocrinol 14, no. 3 (Mar 2018): 129. <<< brief commentary
 

GAF

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Fruit is not like Chips. You CAN only eat just one and you don't eat the whole bushel just because the game is on.
 

Travis

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so eating 40 fruits a day will not make a spike of insulin as eating meat or potatoes . . but will eating those huge amount of fructose a day cause fatty liver disease ?
I don't think so. While true that quite a bit of fructose is converted into fatty acids, you wouldn't be eating practically any fat on an all-apple diet. I think fructose fearmongering is made primarily by those trying to exonerate other foods, shifting the spotlight to anything they can think of. But just remember: Gluten-containing cheeseburgers—those also having sodium aluminum phosphate in the processed cheese—with french fries fried in soybean oil is never the problem, not at all, it's just that people 'don't exercise' and drink fructose (frucose, FFS!).

Primates consume a good deal of fruit and appear healthier than most humans. Humans that consume a good deal of fruit often appear likewise.
Glucose has it's own structural purpose: The extracellular space is contains a good deal of polysaccharides and these are formed from glucose: hyaluronic acid, chondriotin sulfate, and glycogen all are extracellular glucose—or N-acetylglucose—polymers. To counter Lustig-style fearmongering with a bit of my own, I propose that high glucose consumption will inflate glycogen storage spaces throughout the entire body; these spaces are intramuscular and extracellular, and could promote that sort-of fluffy and swollen look characteristic of mass starch-eaters (but this isn't all that bad, really, as it tends to promote that round Asian look after a few generations).
 
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lollipop

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I think fructose fearmongering is made primarily by those trying to exonerate other foods, shifting the spotlight to anything they can think of. But just remember: Gluten-containing cheeseburgers—those also having sodium aluminum phosphate in the processed cheese—with french fries fried in soybean oil is never the problem, not at all, it's just that people 'don't exercise' and drink fructose (frucose, FFS!).
Truth.
 

Jennifer

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I don't think so. While true that quite a bit of fructose is converted into fatty acids, you wouldn't be eating practically any fat on an all-apple diet. I think fructose fearmongering is made primarily by those trying to exonerate other foods, shifting the spotlight to anything they can think of. But just remember: Gluten-containing cheeseburgers—those also having sodium aluminum phosphate in the processed cheese—with french fries fried in soybean oil is never the problem, not at all, it's just that people 'don't exercise' and drink fructose (frucose, FFS!).

Primates consume a good deal of fruit and appear healthier than most humans. Humans that consume a good deal of fruit often appear likewise.
Yeah, that!

Whenever I see debates over whether or not whole foods like fruit, broccoli, kale, spinach ect. are bad for us, I think of this morbidly obese monkey who got that way by gorging on junk food left behind by tourists and it helps put things into perspective for me. Here's a primate who, like us, suffered the same fate we do not from eating fruits and veggies but from eating junk.

Morbidly obese monkey put on strict no-junk-food diet
 

Birdie

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I'd say, only you know how much is too much for you. For me, the more the better. My whole diet is centered on ripe fruit. Like GAF, fruit helped save my life. It's the only food that keeps my blood sugars stable and my depression and pain away. If you felt good consuming that much fruit but are concerned of its safety, here is what Ray has said about fruit:

Effects Of Stress And Trauma On The Body Podcast with Ray Peat

Ray Peat

ELUV: So let’s talk about someone who perhaps is not that healthy and does have stress which is quite common. What would be the recommended diet for them, what some other things that they can eat?

RAY PEAT: One of the reasons that the single meal eaters tend to get fat and diabetic, is that it triggers a great surge of insulin, and the insulin then triggers cortisol. So if you can eat foods that don't trigger insulin, that's the ideal thing and fruit happens to be the best single type of food for not triggering the stress reactions, because it combines very small amounts of protein, with large amounts of sugar and minerals. Potassium happens to handle sugar in place of insulin, and the fructose component of fruit sugar doesn't require insulin. So, eating a lot of fruit, even at one meal a day, produces much smaller amount of insulin, obesity, and cortisol, than eating, for example, just one big meal of meat and potatoes for example. Meat powerfully stimulates insulin and cortisol and starches are more stimulating to insulin than sugars.

ELUV: So it's almost counterintuitive, when you're talking about taking in fructose in the form of fruit, with people that are insulin sensitive?

RAY PEAT: For about 100 years, fructose has been recognized as the ideal sugar for diabetics because they can metabolize it without needing insulin. It used to be sold in health food stores all across the country and you can still find it in most health food stores for diabetics.
Thanks for this. I listened to that interview often when I first started this venture. Really love that one. Now, thanks to you, I just sent it to a few family members who are just starting Peat. Thanks again.
 

Birdie

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I have a lot of trouble sticking to the tropical fruits that Ray says are safest to eat. My solution to that has been to eat mostly the ones he recommends and to have some others with that. Others being mango, banana, pineapple. That's how I approach it. Then we get variety and get to eat them all! Glad he recommends grapes. Unfortunately, I have to limit grapes, but again, I still eat them but mixed with other fruits.
 

Jennifer

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Thanks for this. I listened to that interview often when I first started this venture. Really love that one. Now, thanks to you, I just sent it to a few family members who are just starting Peat. Thanks again.
You're welcome, Birdie! :):
 

Bernio

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I don't think that too much is applicable to fruits and vegetables in general. If you feel yourself good same day and day after than no issues.
 

Light

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Remembered this from my vegan days:

Can You Eat Too Much Fruit? | NutritionFacts.org

"Seventeen people were made to eat 20 servings a day of fruit.
Despite the extraordinarily high fructose content of this diet, presumably about 200 g/d—eight cans of soda worth,
the investigators reported no adverse effects (and possible benefit actually) for body weight, blood pressure,
and insulin and lipid levels after three to six months
.

More recently, Jenkins and colleagues put people on about a 20 servings of fruit a day diet for a few weeks
and found no adverse effects on weight or blood pressure or triglycerides,
and an astounding 38 point drop in LDL cholesterol.
"
 

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