Low Protein Days = Less Hair Fall The Following Morning / Day ??? What Could Explain This?

[BigShoes]

Well, if theoretically a high carb, low protein, zero fat diet correlates with the fastest metabolism, then I'm not sure if that is desirable nor the ideal state. It can't be, we're not meant to eat zero fat.

I believe Lady Rae was responding to your original point.

You mentioned that low protein >> lower thyroid function (which I hadn't heard before).

But then contrarily, Lady Rae mentions that reducing methionine (and by extension, most likely reducing protein, unless all of your protein is from very low methionine sources) actually raises the metabolic rate.

 

[BigShoes]

I am currently experimenting with eating an extremely low methionine diet. I am supplementing my fruit intake with a lot of hydrolyzed multi collagen powder and beef gelatin. Eating a lot of carrot salad, ripe fruit, homemade jello with blended fruits, some masa harina gelatin pancakes.... And I agree with you, I usually eat around 150 g of protein a day.

So far, a couple days into this experiment, I've noticed that my sleep is better and I am leaner and recovering from exercise much faster with absolutely no soreness

Hi Lady Rae - thanks for your perspective.

I mentioned in the OP that I wondered if high methionine could be a factor but difficult to say.

Difficult to pin things down because diet and hair fall can change one day to the next... but it seems like even 50g of protein from beef muscle leads to more hair fall than 30g.

30g is no where near enough for my frame (I wouldn't have thought), so struggling to find a better solution (seeing as dairy is *out* for me).

Make iron panel

Apologies Methylene White (great name btw) - I missed this one completely. Do you suspect possible Iron Overload? Is there a way out of that other than blood letting? Haha!

 

[BigShoes]

Just to say another big thank you to everyone who has commented so far. Lots of names in this thread whose posts I have been reading for months / years.

 

[Neeters 27]

My hair fell out due to low thyroid, but not directly - my iron and ferritin was at 6, which is totally tanked, should have been ay 250 or higher, its because when your thyroid is low you cant absorb nutrients...iron related hair loss.

 

[methylenewhite]

Do you suspect possible Iron Overload?

Iron deficiency without anemia can cause hair fall. I chelated too much of my iron by high turmeric intake and ended up losing my hair. IV iron resolved it.

 

[RPDiciple]

Just to say another big thank you to everyone who has commented so far. Lots of names in this thread whose posts I have been reading for months / years.

you may try doing a lower protien intake for a while to see. Ray is doing the same and has mentioned that people are also doing it with a lot of success. He says 40g should be enough when eating 4k calories if above 30 years old. So yeah should not be a problem. I know people on this forum has been doing lower for healing purpose.

 

[meeka]

@BigShoes is there a particular reason dairy is not an option for you?

 

[BigShoes]

@BigShoes is there a particular reason dairy is not an option for you?

I don't think it's an allergy. My theory is that I do not digest casein protein very well.

Butter and Cream - no problems.

Milk / Cheese / Yoghurt - all cause severe constipation. As if the protein is just clumping together somewhere in the digestion path.

A glass of milk / slice or two of cheese is okay, but still can be a bit noticeable (say 10g total protein). But as soon as I get up to a liter / quart of milk per day, or say 150g cheese per day (30g of dairy protein total?) I experience very bad problems.

I have tried raw vs. pasteurized, A1 vs. A2, Cows vs. Goats, Jersey & Guernsey & Friesian etc. etc. - all cause the same issue.

 

[BearWithMe]

I don't think it's an allergy. My theory is that I do not digest casein protein very well.

Butter and Cream - no problems.

Milk / Cheese / Yoghurt - all cause severe constipation. As if the protein is just clumping together somewhere in the digestion path.

A glass of milk / slice or two of cheese is okay, but still can be a bit noticeable (say 10g total protein). But as soon as I get up to a liter / quart of milk per day, or say 150g cheese per day (30g of dairy protein total?) I experience very bad problems.

I have tried raw vs. pasteurized, A1 vs. A2, Cows vs. Goats, Jersey & Guernsey & Friesian etc. etc. - all cause the same issue.

Sounds a bit like low stomach acid. That would also explain the other issues you mentioned in this thread.

 

[LadyRae]

Sounds a bit like low stomach acid. That would also explain the other issues you mentioned in this thread.

I would just like to make a few comments regarding dairy. I see this kind of thing all over this forum. Everyone assumes that if you can't metabolize Dairy then there must be some sort of deficiency going on.

Growing up I would get recurrent sinus infections and I was quite a sickly little kid. There was lots of dairy consumption in our household. When I was in my early twenties I went to a naturopath and she did a food intolerance test called the Carol Test. This involves examining the blood under the microscope and looking for inflammation. She told me I was intolerant to Dairy and so I quit eating it even though it was extremely difficult and I seemed to crave it for several months.

So within about 6 months I lost 20 lb, which was probably inflammation and water honestly. I quit getting sinus infections. Today I am 44 and I have not had a sinus infection in years. If I do have dairy more than a couple times within a few days I will get really bad phlegm and nasal congestion.

A few years ago when I started healing from keto and intermittent fasting, I started using some of ideal labs T3 product, Tyronene. Danny Roddy had convinced me in a couple podcasts that people with low thyroid couldn't metabolize Dairy so I thought I would give Dairy another try. Over the next several months I had several head colds, I gained 10 lb, and broke out with horrible acne....

Suffice it to say, after a few months of that disastrous Dairy experiment, I quit eating it again and I have never felt better now. I am a 44 year old mother of four, I am 5'10 and 128 lbs. Just finished an epic 300 mile backpacking trip with my 17 year old daughter. One can lead a fabulous life without dairy, and without having to hear from other people that there's something wrong with you for not eating it!

 

[BearWithMe]

I would just like to make a few comments regarding dairy. I see this kind of thing all over this forum. Everyone assumes that if you can't metabolize Dairy then there must be some sort of deficiency going on.

Growing up I would get recurrent sinus infections and I was quite a sickly little kid. There was lots of dairy consumption in our household. When I was in my early twenties I went to a naturopath and she did a food intolerance test called the Carol Test. This involves examining the blood under the microscope and looking for inflammation. She told me I was intolerant to Dairy and so I quit eating it even though it was extremely difficult and I seemed to crave it for several months.

So within about 6 months I lost 20 lb, which was probably inflammation and water honestly. I quit getting sinus infections. Today I am 44 and I have not had a sinus infection in years. If I do have dairy more than a couple times within a few days I will get really bad phlegm and nasal congestion.

A few years ago when I started healing from keto and intermittent fasting, I started using some of ideal labs T3 product, Tyronene. Danny Roddy had convinced me in a couple podcasts that people with low thyroid couldn't metabolize Dairy so I thought I would give Dairy another try. Over the next several months I had several head colds, I gained 10 lb, and broke out with horrible acne....

Suffice it to say, after a few months of that disastrous Dairy experiment, I quit eating it again and I have never felt better now. I am a 44 year old mother of four, I am 5'10 and 128 lbs. Just finished an epic 300 mile backpacking trip with my 17 year old daughter. One can lead a fabulous life without dairy, and without having to hear from other people that there's something wrong with you for not eating it!

OP have issues with all kinds of protein, though. Not just dairy. That's the point of this whole thread.

 

[LadyRae]

OP have issues with all kinds of protein, though. Not just dairy. That's the point of this whole thread.

Considering that the most recent posts this morning are discussing Dairy specifically, my previous post is definitely on point with the thread...

 

[BearWithMe]

You can digest starches and fat with low stomach acid, but you can't digest a lot of protein with low stomach acid.

Protein is rotting instead of being digested -> Endotoxin overload, large particles of undigested protein entering bloodstream -> Inflammation -> Hair loss

Also, constipation after high calcium foods (like milk) is a textbook symptom of low stomach acid.

I'm not saying this is 100% OP's issue, I have no way of knowing that.

I'm saying this is a possibility worth looking into.

 

[BigShoes]

You can digest starches and fat with low stomach acid, but you can't digest a lot of protein with low stomach acid.

Protein is rotting instead of being digested -> Endotoxin overload, large particles of undigested protein entering bloodstream -> Inflammation -> Hair loss

Also, constipation after high calcium foods (like milk) is a textbook symptom of low stomach acid.

I'm not saying this is 100% OP's issue, I have no way of knowing that.

I'm saying this is a possibility worth looking into.

I appreciate this - thank you. It's not something I'd thought about.

I suppose the following questions require some searching on my part, but starting with 'low stomach acid' as a premise, I am now wondering:

- how and why would low stomach acid happen in the first place? (I am an otherwise relatively healthy 30 y/o)

- how could low stomach acid be managed / treated / cured in a more natural way? I generally come with a premise that the human body *wants* to be healthy - if a defect persists, and requires constant intervention to manage / treat, then something is still wrong...

- I definitely do not notice any kind of digestive problems at the upper end of the GI system... no stomach discomfort, gas, GERD, discomfort, reflux / heartburn etc. - wouldn't there have been some more obvious symptoms?

- That said, I developed vitiligo c. 10 years ago, which I have strongly suspected was due to "leaky gut" for a long time (I used to eat a lot of cereal grains and general junk foods when I was young, which I "cleaned up" around 10 years ago). The stomach could have been the root cause, but I had originally assumed it was leaky gut from consuming bad foods (which I no longer do).

 

[Sergey]

TL;DR: when I cut my complete protein intake from 70g-80g per day down to 30g-40g per day from animal foods, I experience significantly lower hair fall the following morning (or day/s). Why might this be?

Have you tried taking large doses of biotin or biotin/b5 combo? Maybe you have an issue around biotinidase activity/biotin (or biotin and b5) absorption and it is aggravated by high protein diet.

 

[BearWithMe]

- how and why would low stomach acid happen in the first place? (I am an otherwise relatively healthy 30 y/o)

Hypothyroidism, poor nutrition and stress would be the leading causes. You need certain nutrients and cofactors for production of stomach acid. When these nutrients are depleted, stomach acid can't be made.

Once stomach acid get low, it tends to stay low, even when the original underlying cause is resolved. This also means occasional/short term use of antacids might cause chronically low stomach acid.

I generally come with a premise that the human body *wants* to be healthy - if a defect persists, and requires constant intervention to manage / treat, then something is still wrong...

This is true for many children and few exceptionally healthy adults. We live in an envionment where this self-healing, self-balancing ability of our bodies usually fails before we reach adulthood. It can be restored, though.

- I definitely do not notice any kind of digestive problems at the upper end of the GI system... no stomach discomfort, gas, GERD, discomfort, reflux / heartburn etc. - wouldn't there have been some more obvious symptoms?

Low stomach acid might actually cause increased appetite and excessive eating in some cases. People using antacids / PPIs usually rave about the apparent lack of digestive problems at the upper end of the GI system. If that was not the case, nobody would ever use an antacid.

 

[BearWithMe]

You can try buying high quality Betaine HCL supplement (because low quality supplement can trigger the symptoms by itself, skewing the results of your experiment), use good dose daily for at least a week (because Herxheimer reaction might skew the results of your experiment). And after that, trying to eat a lot of protein, to see if the increase in stomach acidity improved the hair loss.

 

[LadyRae]

I have been experimenting over the past week to 10 days with a low methionine diet. Lots of fruit and gelatin. I have noticed that in the shower when I finger comb my hair , I have less than half the hair fall that I had before when I was eating lots of muscle meat...

 

[VitoScaletta]

Keep in mind Calcium : Phosphorus ratio.

 

[BigShoes]

Have you tried taking large doses of biotin or biotin/b5 combo? Maybe you have an issue around biotinidase activity/biotin (or biotin and b5) absorption and it is aggravated by high protein diet.

Hi Sergey - I do often use B complex supplements (pure encapsulations presently, due to the Niacinamide ingredient rather than Nicotinamide). The complex contains a high dose of B5 and a moderate dose of B7.

Hypothyroidism, poor nutrition and stress would be the leading causes. You need certain nutrients and cofactors for production of stomach acid. When these nutrients are depleted, stomach acid can't be made.

Once stomach acid get low, it tends to stay low, even when the original underlying cause is resolved. This also means occasional/short term use of antacids might cause chronically low stomach acid.


This is true for many children and few exceptionally healthy adults. We live in an envionment where this self-healing, self-balancing ability of our bodies usually fails before we reach adulthood. It can be restored, though.


Low stomach acid might actually cause increased appetite and excessive eating in some cases. People using antacids / PPIs usually rave about the apparent lack of digestive problems at the upper end of the GI system. If that was not the case, nobody would ever use an antacid.

You can try buying high quality Betaine HCL supplement (because low quality supplement can trigger the symptoms by itself, skewing the results of your experiment), use good dose daily for at least a week (because Herxheimer reaction might skew the results of your experiment). And after that, trying to eat a lot of protein, to see if the increase in stomach acidity improved the hair loss.

Very interesting - thanks for these. I've had to take some time away to digest (ha!) this information - as I say, it's not something I've ever thought about. But perhaps some careful experimenting is in order. FYI I've never taken antacids or the like.

I have been experimenting over the past week to 10 days with a low methionine diet. Lots of fruit and gelatin. I have noticed that in the shower when I finger comb my hair , I have less than half the hair fall that I had before when I was eating lots of muscle meat...

Hi Lady Rae. I'm glad your experiment is going well so far. But there are definitely certain aminos that we need to be getting in certain quantities. I think methionine restriction in a lab settings has yielded interesting results in terms of life-span enhancing etc., but in a more practical setting (reality / nature), it is quite difficult to restrict methionine without getting deficiencies in the other essential aminos.

I saw a video from Hans some while back, where he talks about counter-studies showing that: as long as methionine is appropriately balanced with glycine (e.g. gelatinous cuts), then the life-span enhancing properties to the methionine-restricted mice vs. the life span of the mice with normal methionine levels matched with glycine, were not discernible or observable.

I don't really know if this counter-study is true, and I certainly wouldn't disregard your experience of reduced hair fall on a low methionine / high glycine diet - but it seems to me that there is a balance to be made. I think a zero methionine diet would, by extension, be (almost) vegan - whilst some animal products would be consumed, the general ill-health that all vegans seem to experience after any moderate length of time on the diet would probably occur with heavy methionine restriction. i.e. from a lack of key amino acids and absorbable b vitamins.

Keep in mind Calcium : Phosphorus ratio.

Hi Vito, how's Joe? I do keep Calcium high enough to match my daily Phosphorus intake, at least 1 Ca : 1 P. However, I do this via calcium carbonate supps and not from dairy - I don't tolerate dairy well at all, as mentioned above. Many thanks though!